"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[ssj_duelist]

So people are to believe Trunks is now magically as strong as ss3 Goku? Not just ss3 Goku but ss3 Goku who has God Ki. The same Goku, who in his base form, was able to fight on par with Frieza, who in his first form 1 shot Full Power Super Saiyan Gohan.

Yeah fucking BS unless we are to believe ss2 and 3 Goku are purely cosmetic now and don't have any strength difference from regular Super Saiyan.

The anime shows Trunks struggling with Dabura, which puts anime Black (right now) around at least Fat Buu level (possibly), whereas manga black is far stronger than Res F final form Frieza. HUGE difference.

I could get behind the Kaioshin/Gods of Destruction link if they explained how old kai died in Trunks' timeline, but Toyotaro's power scaling and writing are incredibly poor. Between this Trunks' thing and the whole SSG Goku and SSB wastes too much energy/Hit being much weaker in the manga, I can't take the manga as canon at all.

So have you actually been reading the manga or are you just spouting off assumptions because the manga has stated that base Goku in it is not much stronger than the Buu/BoG Base Goku.

Not in the translation I saw, can you link me to the scans you have?

It still doesn't make sense.

[OLKv3]

ssj_duelist is misunderstanding a lot of things and using anime logic to explain manga things, but I suspect he only came in this topic to whine about how terrible the manga is so I won't bother.

Anyway, the whole tier of power is simple in the manga


Base Goku uses god ki, he turns into SSG. If he doesn't, he uses his normal SSJ forms.
If Goku turns Super Saiyan while using god ki, he transforms into SSB

[ssj_duelist]

Oh okay, manga fanboys. I need to see evidence, not uneducated insults. If one of you could hold a proper argument and use some critical thinking that would be excellent.

Also itt: Resurrection F doesn't exist.

[TheMikado]

It does in the Super manga continuity. I'll find links later when I'm not on my phone, but it skipped RoF conveniently so you can't mix and match the media because the stories and power levels are wildly different.

[VegettoEX]

Oh okay, manga fanboys. I need to see evidence, not uneducated insults. If one of you could hold a proper argument and use some critical thinking that would be excellent.

This is an unacceptable way to hold a conversation here and a strike has been issued on your account. Please review the community guidelines before making further contributions.

[ssj_duelist]

It does in the Super manga continuity. I'll find links later when I'm not on my phone, but it skipped RoF conveniently so you can't mix and match the media because the stories and power levels are wildly different.

Thanks I'd like to see this.

But you're assuming for the sake of convenience Res F the movie is not canon to the manga. It's Akira Toriyama's script, it's of course canon.

[ssj_duelist]

Oh okay, manga fanboys. I need to see evidence, not uneducated insults. If one of you could hold a proper argument and use some critical thinking that would be excellent.

This is an unacceptable way to hold a conversation here and a strike has been issued on your account. Please review the community guidelines before making further contributions.

So the post above mine, insulting me, is fine. lolokay

I see how it is here.

On second thought, your comment is disgustingly out of order and contradicts the very link your posted. I'm trying to have a debate with a user, calling them out when insulted and you think it just to post something shallow like that?

[TheMikado]

It does in the Super manga continuity. I'll find links later when I'm not on my phone, but it skipped RoF conveniently so you can't mix and match the media because the stories and power levels are wildly different.

Thanks I'd like to see this.

But you're assuming for the sake of convenience Res F the movie is not canon to the manga. It's Akira Toriyama's script, it's of course canon.

Not anymore, I've said it before and ill saying again, the movies were YEARS ago long before the thought of a serialized version were thought of. Many things have been retconned among many of the remakes.

Also no need to get up in arms, the issue is the questions you are asking have been covered for months now. I think the expectation is that instead in entering the thread with a complaint, a more conducive method would be to look into the things you have questions on via Google, etc.

[VegettoEX]

Perhaps other account strikes have been issued. That's their business. Yours, however, was pointed out publicly. That's generally for a reason. If you have been issued an account strike, perhaps it is not in your best interest to shout back an indignant response. Reporting a moderator's warning to the moderators themselves isn't going to get you anywhere, either. Take a moment to reflect before responding.

This is not up for debate, so please continue the actual conversation at hand.

[ssj_duelist]

I am debating these 'answers' as they aren't correct. I can't google that now can I.

[OLKv3]

It does in the Super manga continuity. I'll find links later when I'm not on my phone, but it skipped RoF conveniently so you can't mix and match the media because the stories and power levels are wildly different.

Thanks I'd like to see this.

But you're assuming for the sake of convenience Res F the movie is not canon to the manga. It's Akira Toriyama's script, it's of course canon.

Re-read the BoG arc in Super. The major change is that Goku never loses the SSG form. Unlike the movie and anime, where Goku absorbs the power, in the manga, he simply keeps the form until Beerus beats him.

I never said Goku is still Buu saga tier because that doesn't make sense since he's been training since then and is stronger than Buu saga levels in BoG, just that his base is no longer on par with SSG. Neither is Vegeta's, the god forms are outrageously strong in the manga. The Hit battle showed this, where Hit could barely keep up with the god forms, while in the anime Hit can take on x10 KK Blue forms.

In the anime, SSG isn't needed because Goku kept the power within, and then surpassed it with SSB. In the manga, he has to use the form to access it's power.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm surprised to hear that Trunks is stronger than Goku in the same forms. But on the other hand, this is the same guy who got over 50x stronger by training alone in 3 months back then, so i guess i'll let this one slide.

I forgot that in 1 year these chatacters almost double their strength, unlock new form etc. I wonder why now people don't believe someone can master a form in 10 years.

If we're gonna let stuff like this slide. The shit like Golden Freeza and Vegeta jumping from SSJ2 tier to SSJG tier in six months shouldn't be issue for anyone anymore.

[Pannaliciour]

3 things:

1- I hate it when people say the manga is the correct one, It fits better than anime and Akira is involved more. I am thinking: really? Akira has worked on both the movies and anime before the manga came out. He delivers his story/script to toei. The anime has for example ssj god absorbing thing LIKE in the movie (bog) and yet the manga doesn't. So 2 vs 1, sorry but I chose anime for the main source (it is also more ahead than the manga the most.of the.time)

Don't get me wrong I also do like the manga but don't say stuff like it is the main source because it fits better, no it doesnt, YOU think it fits better.

2- The ssj 2 fight (goku vs trunks) much better in manga than anime

3- wtf Black using IT for a rock and not that powerfull ki blast Trunks did earlyer?? Guess rock >ki blast?

The answer to this really quite simple using logic and reason:

The movies were made literally YEARS ago, before Toriyama knew a new series would be coming out. The movies were originally intended as stand alone, one time shows and weren't made originally to jump start a new series.

We plans to make the series were finalized it would be pretty easy for Toriyama to decide that making everyone suddenly God level permanently probably wasn't going to work in a serialized format and retconned it. Maybe Toei writers and animators did t get the memo, maybe he recently made that decision. Who knows but it's clear the manga has gone in a different direction with Toriyamas permission while a month before the trunks arc problem after many of the episodes had been completed, Toriyama hadn't even seen the final anime script yet.

So yes many people give precedence to the manga as the story Toriyama wants to tell NOW in 2016.

Uhmm no just no, months ago he deliverd the story, script to toei for trunks saga. Akira never looks back he tries to forget and move on. He properly is working on a new arc right now.

[Draconic]

Base Goku and Vegeta have to be above their BoG selves, since they trained with Whis. They probably aren't as powerful as in the anime, but should be quite a notch above what they were at the beginning. Since Trunks has enough power to compete with a buffed up Goku, this also means he is stronger than SSJ2 BoG Goku and by now probably pushing close to Buu arc SSJ3 Gotenks (lowballing here). Something like this:

SSJ2 Goku BoG < SSJ3 Goku BoG < SSJ2 Goku FT < SSJ2 Trunks ~ SSJ3 Goku FT < SSG Goku

However, since in the anime Goku is even more powered up, the tier would go like this:
SSJ2 Goku BoG < SSJ3 Goku BoG < SSJ2 Trunks < SSJ2 Goku FT << SSJ3 Goku
The "Saiyan Beyond God theory" (how the two base should probably be renamed) however can't work in the anime, as Goku and Vegeta are still of about equal strength in each form and there Vegeta never had SSG. Since Goku made the God power his own, Vegeta simply trained with Whis and achieved that level on his own.

This means that in the manga Goku does have a SbG state, while the other forms are under that, while Vegeta, much like with SSJ3, skipped it and can go straight to Blue, while his base, SSJ and SSJ2 forms are equal to Goku's.

[VegettoEX]

In addition to everything else I'm tossing out there, please note that the strength debates should be taken to more-appropriate threads, rather than cluttering up the general manga discussion here. Thanks!

[Chiki]

Which is a movie detail that was excluded from the manga and the anime, making its validity to the two re-tellings highly questionable.

As for him using it versus Blue, for Hit, he wanted to keep Blue as a last minute surprise to see what the peak of Hit's power was and to lull him into a false sense of security before beating him. With Trunks? It would be overkill. Like using Super Saiyan to beat the Ginyu Force.

Most people consider the movies canon since Toriyama wrote them both himself.

Anyway, it's a basic mathematical issue. You can prove that SSG doesn't have SS power since SSB = SSG + SS and if SSG already had SS power then it wouldn't need SS to turn into SSB. Simple

[TheMikado]

I am debating these 'answers' as they aren't correct. I can't google that now can I.

What exactly and specifically isn't correct?

[Khin]

I'm surprised to hear that Trunks is stronger than Goku in the same forms. But on the other hand, this is the same guy who got over 50x stronger by training alone in 3 months back then, so i guess i'll let this one slide.

I forgot that in 1 year these chatacters almost double their strength, unlock new form etc. I wonder why now people don't believe someone can master a form in 10 years.

If we're gonna let stuff like this slide. The shit like Golden Freeza and Vegeta jumping from SSJ2 tier to SSJG tier in six months shouldn't be issue for anyone anymore.

Those two are reasonable, and so is Trunks. He was shown to be able to achieve ridiculous gain in Z. Plus, it's not like Base Goku/Vegeta is God-Tier in the manga anyway, i just put them on the same tier as Freeza on Namek; so it's perfectly fine for Trunks to surpass them.

[TheMikado]

Which is a movie detail that was excluded from the manga and the anime, making its validity to the two re-tellings highly questionable.

As for him using it versus Blue, for Hit, he wanted to keep Blue as a last minute surprise to see what the peak of Hit's power was and to lull him into a false sense of security before beating him. With Trunks? It would be overkill. Like using Super Saiyan to beat the Ginyu Force.

Most people consider the movies canon since Toriyama wrote them both himself.

Anyway, it's a basic mathematical issue. You can prove that SSG doesn't have SS power since SSB = SSG + SS and if SSG already had SS power then it wouldn't need SS to turn into SSB. Simple

The movies are canon to the movie continuity and do not necessarily apply to either the anime nor the manga. Because they were written at different times and the author has since changed his mind about how events unfolded and what they were.

[sintzu]

So people are to believe Trunks is now magically as strong as ss3 Goku ?

That's how Super works, it does things like this without explaining them so fans try to explain them instead.

They may not be the best explanations but at least they're trying which is the complete opposite of what the "official writers" are doing.

If we're gonna let stuff like this slide. The shit like Golden Freeza and Vegeta jumping from SSJ2 tier to SSJG tier in six months shouldn't be issue for anyone anymore.

Vegeta and Freeza's power ups were explained unlike Trunks'.