This franchise has become a joke now

[Zephyr]

Overseeing the Earth as a God in Dragon Ball, is much different than being a God and having the power to obliterate a universe in Dragon Ball Z/Super.

So it's the power creep that's bothering you?

That's been excessive for a long time.

[Hellspawn28]

I think the new stuff is better than most of the older stuff. We are getting more into the DB lore more than ever before. GT never did much of that expect for visit planets that where visit for one episode. Bebi's backstory was already done with Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans and I like King Kai's backstory better in my opinion. People hate the idea of Freeza coming back, but I like that Freeza got a more serious return when his return in GT and Fusion Reborn was a joke. Goku Black so far is our best written villain to be date in my opinion. A lot of the Toei original villains did suck and I feel like a lot of them are just liked because they have a cool transformation.

[Bullza]

In Dragon Ball, did Kami tell Goku that he could transform into Bluper Saiyan God, or acquire Super Saiyan God Rose? Overseeing the Earth as a God in Dragon Ball, is much different than being a God and having the power to obliterate a universe in Dragon Ball Z/Super.

It's just a different hair colour, why is that such an issue? It's a Sci Fi Fantasy series that has talking turtles, a dog for a president, dinosaurs and spaceships and people lacking noses. What's the problem with Goku having blue hair? I know real life girls who have blue hair.

You had beings that could destroy Cities, then Planets, then the Solar System and in the anime even a Galaxy. It makes sense that the next step would involve Universes wouldnt it?

[ABED]

In Dragon Ball, did Kami tell Goku that he could transform into Bluper Saiyan God, or acquire Super Saiyan God Rose? Overseeing the Earth as a God in Dragon Ball, is much different than being a God and having the power to obliterate a universe in Dragon Ball Z/Super.

It's just a different hair colour, why is that such an issue? It's a Sci Fi Fantasy series that has talking turtles, a dog for a president, dinosaurs and spaceships and people lacking noses. What's the problem with Goku having blue hair? I know real life girls who have blue hair.

You had beings that could destroy Cities, then Planets, then the Solar System and in the anime even a Galaxy. It makes sense that the next step would involve Universes wouldnt it?

But after you get to such massive power scales, it's hard to really establish scale (for lack of a better term?) and the fights suffer as a result. The dog for a king and a talking turtle don't interfere with my ability to enjoy the fights in the series, which are the main point of it all. Cyborg 17 is supposed to be FAR stronger than Freeza, but nothing he does demonstrates that. Sure they can SAY he's stronger, but how the level of power should logically be on a much larger scale than its shown to be. Freeza can destroy a planet without much effort.

Those girls color their hair. Your point is ridiculous. Goku and the other Saiyans are constantly transforming, it gets tiresome as a plot device.

[sintzu]

What is happening to this franchise?

I can remember being a child and literally dropping my jaw when I first saw Goku turn Super Saiyan. It was literally the most coolest thing to ever happen with Dragon Ball Z. Even Ryūsei Nakao voicing Freeza was terrifying. The ending of Goku, Freeza, and Namek felt bitter sweet. After some time had passed, there was a promo in Japan starring Trunks. At first, I thought this person came from outer space, but he was literally a Saiyan from the future and he was not your ordinary Saiyan, either. Turns out he was Vegeta's son! Wow. The franchise took off yet again when we discovered that a creature named Cell, was lurking around sucking his victims through a green straw. One of the most memorable moments was seeing Vegeta reach Super Saiyan, Cell become Perfect, and Gohan surpass what anybody ever thought was imaginable. Once Majin Buu came around, we got to see Gotenks, Vegetto, Majin Vegeta, Super Saiyan 3 Goku, and Ultimate Gohan.

Now, I understand that there's quite a bit of distaste here for DBGT, but I absolutely adored it! The music was fantastic, and everything else just screamed nostalgia.

Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods? That was IMHO a ginormous slap to the face.

Super was rushed into production and Toei are making too many products so Super's quality is unfortunately paying for it and although Toriyama's plots are flawed, they're still better than what we could've gotten from Toei.

I've been a fan of Z for over a decade and these scenes (alongside others) still amaze me.

I started with the Baby arc which was GT's highlight so I don't hate it like others do but it has a lot of problems.

I completely disagree, BOG was a great beginning for the franchise's revival and it also works as a great standalone story set before the manga's ending.

[Cipher]

I'd like to add that everyone freaking out over Super Saiyan Rosé is ridiculous. The villain is an evil version of Goku. You don't expect him to have a form of Super Saiyan? One that might be visually different?

[Kamiccolo9]

I'd like to add that everyone freaking out over Super Saiyan Rosé is ridiculous. The villain is an evil version of Goku. You don't expect him to have a form of Super Saiyan? One that might be visually different?

"PINK SSGOKU IS BAD CUZ FANFITCION" or something. That's the response I usually get for this.

[Kanassa]

I'd like to add that everyone freaking out over Super Saiyan Rosé is ridiculous. The villain is an evil version of Goku. You don't expect him to have a form of Super Saiyan? One that might be visually different?

"PINK SSGOKU IS BAD CUZ FANFITCION" or something. That's the response I usually get for this.

I think people need to stop using the old ''it looks like fanfiction' saying, becasue by this point that applies to anything.

[omaro34]

Good for you (meant in a totally non-condescending way, seriously.) If you want to encompass a wider appreciation of the creation of the show into your enjoyment of the final product, that's great.

I, on the other hand, have basically no interest said obstacles, inter-studio drama and difficulties, etc., and only care about the end product. Abridged is a more consistently enjoyable end product for me than the Dragon Ball anime. All the other stuff may be interesting, and can explain a lot about the end product....but it ultimately has no bearing on whether I like the end result.

I respect your opinion and completely understand where you're coming from. We were just interpreting it differently, that's all. Appreciate the perspective.

[Hellspawn28]

They are doing the Evil Goku idea better than most fan fictions do. I admit I hated the idea of Goku Black at first, but they are doing a great job at it so far.

[Anime Kitten]

Does this thread even have a purpose anymore? All AnimeMaakuo is doing is repeating the original post. I said it earlier, and I'll say it again. If you don't enjoy it, don't watch or read it. It can't get much simpler than that.

But I'm done with this thread. I don't want to get anyone in trouble, so, see ya.

[Captain Sauza]

Super isn't all that good so far, but it could be worse... it could be DB: Multiverse turned into an anime.

[TheMikado]

Compared to DBZ, if you were happy with that style and flow then yes Super is bad

[Lord Beerus]

I certainly do agree that the some of the aspects of the Dragon Ball's new era, which pretty much everything starting from Battle Of Gods up until now, has had it problems, but at the end of day I still immensely enjoy the new stories and addition to the lore of the Dragon Ball Universe. I mean, I'm not looking for the greatest story to be told in this era of Dragon Ball, because even in the previous era we never really go that, and I still enjoyed the hell of Dragon Ball back then. I'm just looking for a simple story, with good characters, some decent fights and the occasional poignant moment. And I think, for the most part, we gotten that ever since Battle Of Gods to where we are with Super. So I personally think the franchise is far from a joke, especially with how much money it's currently making.

[Hellspawn28]

I feel a lot of fans are having their nostalgic glasses on too seeing that most of the older DB stuff was not very good. Most of the 13 DBZ movies are not very good. Not sure if anyone has really re-watch all of them in the last 10 or 15 years. DBZ Movie 1, Movie 2, Movie 5 (while it does have major flaws), Movie 12 and Movie 13 are the only ones that I feel like that I still enjoy today. Even DBZ Movie 8 has not aged well for me and it was the first DBZ movie I saw in Japanese before it was released in the US.

[TheMikado]

I feel a lot of fans are having their nostalgic glasses on too seeing that most of the older DB stuff was not very good. Most of the 13 DBZ movies are not very good. Not sure if anyone has really re-watch all of them in the last 10 or 15 years. DBZ Movie 1, Movie 2, Movie 5 (while it does have major flaws), Movie 12 and Movie 13 are the only ones that I feel like that I still enjoy today. Even DBZ Movie 8 has not aged well for me and it was the first DBZ movie I saw in Japanese before it was released in the US.

I got the first season of Z and watching it now. It can be cheesy at times but even the filler is enjoyable.

[AnimeMaakuo]

Does this thread even have a purpose anymore? All AnimeMaakuo is doing is repeating the original post. I said it earlier, and I'll say it again. If you don't enjoy it, don't watch or read it. It can't get much simpler than that.

But I'm done with this thread. I don't want to get anyone in trouble, so, see ya.

Where are you extrapolating this position from? If you have a problem with what I've said, you're always welcome to leave.

[Anime Kitten]

Where are you extrapolating this position from? If you have a problem with my thread, you're welcome to leave.

I did leave, until this notification popped up. In all seriousness, it just seems like this thread isn't going anywhere. If you want to complain about Super, then we have threads made for it. And hair colors... don't get me started.

[Lord Beerus]

I feel a lot of fans are having their nostalgic glasses on too seeing that most of the older DB stuff was not very good. Most of the 13 DBZ movies are not very good. Not sure if anyone has really re-watch all of them in the last 10 or 15 years. DBZ Movie 1, Movie 2, Movie 5 (while it does have major flaws), Movie 12 and Movie 13 are the only ones that I feel like that I still enjoy today. Even DBZ Movie 8 has not aged well for me and it was the first DBZ movie I saw in Japanese before it was released in the US.

I got the first season of Z and watching it now. It can be cheesy at times but even the filler is enjoyable.

Kai really makes you realise how poorly aged DBZ is. I'm not saying this as a way of hiding flaws Super may have, but Dragon Ball Z was far from the crème de la crème in regards to quality anime. It had a lot of issues. It was good but heavily flawed. Hell, that sums up the whole franchise.

[Cipher]

Kai really makes you realise how poorly aged DBZ is. I'm not saying this as a way of hiding flaws Super may have, but Dragon Ball Z was far from the crème de la crème in regards to quality anime. It had a lot of issues. It was good but heavily flawed. Hell, that sums up the whole franchise.

In terms of pacing? The latter half of the Namek arc in Z is borderline unwatchable, but on the whole the series is infinitely better directed than either Kai or Super. I think it holds up quite well even if you're seeing it for the first time in 2016.

Not that those two are high bench marks -- two rushed productions, one consisting of edited animation from an older series (with a replacement score) -- but I don't think Z seems any worse or better than it ever has.