"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Kanassa]

Because of how shitty it was written, with faint and forgetable plot lines, people forget that what was happening in hell and Super 17 Arc was thanks to Dragon Balls being broken.
It was stated in GT as I rewatched it recently.

I am almost certain that the Shadow Dragons happened because of the Dragon Balls being over used. How was the Dragon Balls being crack lead to the Super 17 Saga?

The dragonball's overuse was responciable for the shadow Dragons, and yes, it happened at the end of the Super 17 Arc. Hell, I remember the Super 17 Arc only being made because they needed an extra Arc before the Shadow Dragons.

[MCDaveG]

Because of how shitty it was written, with faint and forgetable plot lines, people forget that what was happening in hell and Super 17 Arc was thanks to Dragon Balls being broken.
It was stated in GT as I rewatched it recently.

I am almost certain that the Shadow Dragons happened because of the Dragon Balls being over used. How was the Dragon Balls being crack lead to the Super 17 Saga?

The dragonball's overuse was responciable for the shadow Dragons, and yes, it happened at the end of the Super 17 Arc. Hell, I remember the Super 17 Arc only being made because they needed an extra Arc before the Shadow Dragons.

Yes, it was, you shall rewatch DBGT, the crack on Dragon Ball appears after the Baby arc and the negative energy allows the things in hell to went amis.

[Anime Kitten]

I also wouldn't mind a filler saga where maybe GT Goku and Vegeta showed up. You know it'd be fun to see SSJB Goku and Vegeta vs SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta.

Super Saiyan 4 and some GT characters would look pretty cool in Super's animation style since we don't get enough in Heroes. And who says it has to be filler?

[Marlowe89]

Keep in mind that, to get down to the fine grain, it's not as if GT is just a splintered set of events that can be tacked onto the end of the Boo arc. It picks up on threads introduced in the original anime adaptation that differ from the manga (its interpretation of Hell, the Divine Water from the Garlic Jr. arc, the Tsufuru-jin, etc.). You'd have to have something fictionally causing the differences between the original anime and the manga, which opens a new whole can of worms.

Personally, I think it's more trouble than it's worth to assume all of the franchise's metafiction can be connected with the current system of universes/timelines Super uses. I haven't played Xenoverse, but I wouldn't take it as Shueisha's codified statement on how different elements of the metafiction fit together.

This. There are too many rules and mechanics of GT's universe that simply don't mesh or work at all with the rules established by Super and Toriyama's other modern post-Z content. The Dragon Balls don't seem to be in any danger of spewing forth some random cigar-smoking dragon of evil, Hell is just as different as Freeza's afterlife, etc.

They work better as entirely separate continuities than different timelines, to be honest.

[TheMikado]

Keep in mind that, to get down to the fine grain, it's not as if GT is just a splintered set of events that can be tacked onto the end of the Boo arc. It picks up on threads introduced in the original anime adaptation that differ from the manga (its interpretation of Hell, the Divine Water from the Garlic Jr. arc, the Tsufuru-jin, etc.). You'd have to have something fictionally causing the differences between the original anime and the manga, which opens a new whole can of worms.

Personally, I think it's more trouble than it's worth to assume all of the franchise's metafiction can be connected with the current system of universes/timelines Super uses. I haven't played Xenoverse, but I wouldn't take it as Shueisha's codified statement on how different elements of the metafiction fit together.

This. There are too many rules and mechanics of GT's universe that simply don't mesh or work at all with the rules established by Super and Toriyama's other modern post-Z content. The Dragon Balls don't seem to be in any danger of spewing forth some random cigar-smoking dragon of evil, Hell is just as different as Freeza's afterlife, etc.

They work better as entirely separate continuities than different timelines, to be honest.

These arguments make little sense, especially when you have Beerus claiming he killed all the dinosaurs but they're still running around. By that logic Super can't exist in the same timeline as Z. As for GT hell in pretty sure they said they were in a different region of hell than in Z.

As for the DBs cracking I already have a theory for that.
1) the balls specifically absorb the negative energy from a positive wish causing them to cracks. The first wish in Super was neutral and probably did nothing. The second was Frieza and was probably so negative it flooded the balls with positive energy and bought them more time.

Plus I predict the entirety of Super will be completely rewinded to never happen in the existing time line anyway.

[Marlowe89]

These arguments make little sense, especially when you have Beerus claiming he killed all the dinosaurs but they're still running around.

Dinosaurs actually appear in BoG and in Super, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. I'm not talking about some off-hand remarks by Beerus that are played up for comedic purposes, I'm specifically referring to hard established rules of DB's cosmology and overall universe.

The fact that you would need to plug in all this wildly implausible headcanon just to resolve the two stories as existing in the same continuity is precisely why they can't plausibly exist in the same continuity.

[TheMikado]

These arguments make little sense, especially when you have Beerus claiming he killed all the dinosaurs but they're still running around.

Dinosaurs actually appear in BoG and in Super, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. I'm not talking about some off-hand remarks by Beerus that are played up for comedic purposes, I'm specifically referring to hard established rules of DB's cosmology and overall universe.

The fact that you would need to plug in all this wildly implausible headcanon just to resolve the two stories as existing in the same continuity is precisely why they can't plausibly exist in the same continuity.

I guess I'm not understanding what you're saying as I'm pretty sure Hell was never in the original manga either...

Further the Hell described seems to share traits in Eastern culture of different sections. Think west version of 7 circles of hell.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Hell

Basically your argument is that GT depicts something differently than FILLER in the anime?

[Marlowe89]

Basically your argument is that GT depicts something differently than FILLER in the anime?

No? I'm going to try this again.

The Hell depicted in GT is exactly the same as the Hell depicted in Z filler, and incredibly different from Super/RoF's conception of Hell. Even the encounter with Freeza and Cell in GT basically picks up where the Z filler left off with their previous encounter.

[TheMikado]

Basically your argument is that GT depicts something differently than FILLER in the anime?

No? I'm going to try this again.

The Hell depicted in GT is exactly the same as the Hell depicted in Z filler, and incredibly different from Super/RoF's conception of Hell. Even the encounter with Freeza and Cell in GT basically picks up where the Z filler left off with their previous encounter.

Then Super is wrong as it's supposedly canon to the anime with filler and not the manga. That's what was officially stated here anyway.

Just so it's clear, I don't care either way as I don't believe in those canon rules

[kinisking]

Am I the only one having trouble associating the future trunks in super with the previous future trunks? He has blue hair, different super saiyan hairstyle (it's the same one against Freeza but not the one i'm used to), different outfit, different animation style, and i'm used to the dub so in some ways it doesn't really feel like future trunks. It's hard to explain, but even though I know he's future trunks he doesn't really invoke that sense of familiarity as much as he should. I'm not hating on the changes, in fact I like his new outfit more and feel pretty neutral on the animation style and hair color. But still, I've been trying to make a complete connection and I just cant. It might be my biggest problem with the arc. I don't blame Toei or Toriyama for it though.

[Avok]

Am I the only one having trouble associating the future trunks in super with the previous future trunks? He has blue hair, different super saiyan hairstyle (it's the same one against Freeza but not the one i'm used to), different outfit, different animation style, and i'm used to the dub so in some ways it doesn't really feel like future trunks. It's hard to explain, but even though I know he's future trunks he doesn't really invoke that sense of familiarity as much as he should. I'm not hating on the changes, in fact I like his new outfit more and feel pretty neutral on the animation style and hair color. But still, I've been trying to make a complete connection and I just cant. It might be my biggest problem with the arc. I don't blame Toei or Toriyama for it though.

Happens to me too.

He should be older, and for some reason I don't like the way he's designed now. His clothes are alright, but his face is off 90% of the time.

[Bansho64]

Am I the only one having trouble associating the future trunks in super with the previous future trunks? He has blue hair, different super saiyan hairstyle (it's the same one against Freeza but not the one i'm used to), different outfit, different animation style, and i'm used to the dub so in some ways it doesn't really feel like future trunks. It's hard to explain, but even though I know he's future trunks he doesn't really invoke that sense of familiarity as much as he should. I'm not hating on the changes, in fact I like his new outfit more and feel pretty neutral on the animation style and hair color. But still, I've been trying to make a complete connection and I just cant. It might be my biggest problem with the arc. I don't blame Toei or Toriyama for it though.

I definitely agree with you on the feeling. Even with Takeshi Kusao voicing him, I don't get the same feeling and it's hard to connect them together. And this ain't no nostalgia either. I just don't get the same feeling I do from Trunks now that I do from his earlier time travels. I don't get the same "cool" feeling I'm afraid. Though, I've never been a fan of the blue hair or the skinny look on him currently. He looks younger than he did in Z to me. I ain't tryna hate on it. These are my honest thoughts. And I know it ain't because he's new because I actually kinda like him in the Super manga. And I like the way Young Jijii draws him.

[Hellspawn28]

I really wouldn't mind GT officially being an alternate timeline. At least for me then I wouldn't have to watch it thinking "None of this stuff actually happened" and instead I could think of it as "This stuff happened just not in the main timeline."

I also wouldn't mind a filler saga where maybe GT Goku and Vegeta showed up. You know it'd be fun to see SSJB Goku and Vegeta vs SSJ4 Goku and Vegeta.

Agree. I feel like Super and GT can't exist with each other. Nothing in Super was mention in GT and I know that GT was released first. I'm looking at things in a universe stand point of view seeing that everything in the past was mention again at least once. Not to mention Goku said that Yi Xing Long was the strongest person that he has ever met when Goku met Zeno who is the strongest being in the series. Also Goku mention that he didn't see Elder Kaioshin and Kibitoshin since the battle with Buu when Goku saw them again in Super.

I am almost certain that the Shadow Dragons happened because of the Dragon Balls being over used. How was the Dragon Balls being crack lead to the Super 17 Saga?

Shenron said at the end of GT that the gates of Hell in the Super 17 saga did cause the Dragon Balls to crack and release the negative energy inside them.

[TheMikado]

^ if Super ends without any time splits or time rewinds then I would say they can't coexist, however just with the incredible setups here I have a feeling like they will rewind the entire series with a time rewind when it's done.

[nite_jay]

Yeah, the blue hair does take me out of recognizing Trunks a little. He also just looks a little younger, but maybe that's just Toriyama's modern style.

[THEGOKU]

Woah glad to see everyone here talking about the Super/GT theory I brought up because it would be somewhat interesting but mainly just to have it okay that all the GT stuff happened because it happened in its own universe or timeline or however you want to put it. I can see it happening if DBS is to continue for a few years but right now no.

As for Trunks, I think it's fine how he is and he looks young still because as Vegeta put it a Saiyan stays in his prime for years and doesn't really age otherwise Goku and Vegeta even Gohan should look different too. I just wished he was given a different outfit than the green sweater.

[Xeztin]

^ if Super ends without any time splits or time rewinds then I would say they can't coexist, however just with the incredible setups here I have a feeling like they will rewind the entire series with a time rewind when it's done.

I have a feeling they are going to rewind and everyone's memories will be erased of meeting Beerus and the evens after BoG. Because Goku meeting all of these kaioshins and deities has caused this and that to happen. Then we'd be at the EoZ and Bulma saying I haven't seen you in 5 years would make sense. Everyone having their memory erased and Goku only thinking he can go SSJ3 would make sense and plus he'd be looking at Oob as a successor again because he's SSJ3-ish. If people like Beerus and Black, SSJB and such are around then I don't see how you could look at Oob as a successor. It'd be a sad ending but it could be a conclusion the Omni-King will come to once he sees all this time-warping and such going on, and the God of Destruction slacking because of him.

[HeroR]

^ if Super ends without any time splits or time rewinds then I would say they can't coexist, however just with the incredible setups here I have a feeling like they will rewind the entire series with a time rewind when it's done.

I have a feeling they are going to rewind and everyone's memories will be erased of meeting Beerus and the evens after BoG. Because Goku meeting all of these kaioshins and deities has caused this and that to happen. Then we'd be at the EoZ and Bulma saying I haven't seen you in 5 years would make sense. Everyone having their memory erased and Goku only thinking he can go SSJ3 would make sense and plus he'd be looking at Oob as a successor again because he's SSJ3-ish. If people like Beerus and Black, SSJB and such are around then I don't see how you could look at Oob as a successor. It'd be a sad ending but it could be a conclusion the Omni-King will come to once he sees all this time-warping and such going on, and the God of Destruction slacking because of him.

I highly doubt Toriyama will erase everything he wrote since 2013, especially for such a stupid reason. Also, Goku mentioned Uub and how he couldn't wait to fight him again, and even considered having him fight during the first multiverse tournament.

[sintzu]

There's no way Toriyama or anyone at Toei is going to rewind the clock and make everything we've been going through and everything we'll be going through irrelevant.

Beerus and Whis are currently fan favorites and Black is arguably that right now even though his arc isn't done yet so do you really think they're going to get rid of them and potential other fan favorites ?

That wouldn't make any sense from both a storytelling and a financial perspective and why would Toriyama undo years worth of work ? Because of a line Bulma said in the manga ? whenever Super ends I'm 100% sure it'll alter the manga's ending to fit within the current events and if by any small chance it doesn't, the manga's ending the way it currently is still works.

[TheMikado]

There's no way Toriyama or anyone at Toei is going to rewind the clock and make everything we've been going through and everything we'll be going through irrelevant.

Beerus and Whis are currently fan favorites and Black is arguably that right now even though his arc isn't done yet so do you really think they're going to get rid of them and potential other fan favorites ?

That wouldn't make any sense from both a storytelling and a financial perspective and why would Toriyama undo years worth of work ? Because of a line Bulma said in the manga ? whenever Super ends I'm 100% sure it'll alter the manga's ending to fit within the current events and if by any small chance it doesn't, the manga's ending the way it currently is still works.

It doesn't make it irrelevant, it's still a story that happened,

As it stands now Goku has literally gotten to he end of all existence by meeting the omniking, there's not too many places you can go with this. When have God powers running amok, casual loops in time, and multiple time splits which span multiple universes. All these things are pretty serious crimes, if Zen'o gets mad and wipes out universes for petty things what makes you think he's not going to do something for much more serious actions???

He likes Goku which is why he would probably spare the universes but only under the conditions Xeztin stated because it literally just make sense and it's an easy way to keep and resale all their other media without making it irrelevant. Like you say they like money a why wouldn't they want to keep as much merchandise relevant that that ALREADY have as possible.