This franchise has become a joke now

[ABED]

You do understand that's how ALL marketing works. That's literally what the entire science is based off. Otherwise marketing agencies just randomly throw darts at a board?

I know how marketing works, and that's not how it works. I just recently saw an article about how the number of twitter followers doesn't necessarily lead to more sales. And being a sequel to something successful doesn't mean the sequel will be successful. It's only in hindsight that we can figure out why something worked, not what will work in the future. It's always a guess. It's a bad idea to let marketing and temporary spikes dictate the story.

[TheMikado]

You do understand that's how ALL marketing works. That's literally what the entire science is based off. Otherwise marketing agencies just randomly throw darts at a board?

I know how marketing works, and that's not how it works. I just recently saw an article about how the number of twitter followers doesn't necessarily lead to more sales. And being a sequel to something successful doesn't mean the sequel will be successful. It's only in hindsight that we can figure out why something worked, not what will work in the future. It's always a guess.

I'm not going to argue the virtues of this but marketing is literally about what is the most likely way to get people to but your product which includes something people want. There is NEVER a guarantee that consumers will by anything but the idea is to identify trends that's will mostly likely lead to sales. In this case the MOST likely way to get sales is to include a new transformation and slap Toriyamas name on it because it's been shown that that's what sells in the past. I'm not sure why you feel it's needs to be absolute because there can be no absolutes in marketing, but it's nearly guaranteed to work.

And you're wrong. That is how marketing works.

[ABED]

You do understand that's how ALL marketing works. That's literally what the entire science is based off. Otherwise marketing agencies just randomly throw darts at a board?

I know how marketing works, and that's not how it works. I just recently saw an article about how the number of twitter followers doesn't necessarily lead to more sales. And being a sequel to something successful doesn't mean the sequel will be successful. It's only in hindsight that we can figure out why something worked, not what will work in the future. It's always a guess.

I'm not going to argue the virtues of this but marketing is literally about what is the most likely way to get people to but your product which includes something people want. There is NEVER a guarantee that consumers will by anything but the idea is to identify trends that's will mostly likely lead to sales. In this case the MOST likely way to get sales is to include a new transformation and slap Toriyamas name on it because it's been shown that that's what sells in the past. I'm not sure why you feel it's needs to be absolute because there can be no absolutes in marketing, but it's nearly guaranteed to work.

Of course there's never a guarantee, which is my entire point. They don't KNOW, they only have an idea, but as we've seen numerous times, past success doesn't guarantee future success. So maybe a good way to get a spike in sales is to add another transformation, but as the science of economics shows, the more you add, at some point, you will hit the point of diminishing marginal returns. Story shouldn't be dictated by marketing.

And you're wrong. That is how marketing works.

That's not how it works. It doesn't say "because it works in the past, continue doing it in the future."

[TheMikado]

Look if your entire point is they didn't "know" then fine I concede. But they have a very very very good guess that adding s transformation would work. Furthermore the tranformation and story weren't even Toriyamas idea at all to begin with. From my understanding Toei approached Toriyama with the idea of Gods of Destruction and turning and Goku into a God. They had general characters designs, scripts, etc. all in pre production. When they got Toriyama on board he changed everything, but he idea that there needed to be his new God transformation was already there from Toei. It's very likely a bunch of execs and writers sat down and said " What type of things will appeal to people to get them to see a new Dragonball movie" so it's likely the story developed from a need to market it as opposed to a story being developed first and he marketing second. In the BoG and Super's case it's very likely marketing IS dictating the story based on what we know about pre production on this.

[ABED]

Look if your entire point is they didn't "know" then fine I concede. But they have a very very very good guess that adding s transformation would work. Furthermore the tranformation and story weren't even Toriyamas idea at all to begin with. From my understanding Toei approached Toriyama with the idea of Gods of Destruction and turning and Goku into a God. They had general characters designs, scripts, etc. all in pre production. When they got Toriyama on board he changed everything, but he idea that there needed to be his new God transformation was already there from Toei. It's very likely a bunch of execs and writers sat down and said " What type of things will appeal to people to get them to see a new Dragonball movie" so it's likely the story developed from a need to market it as opposed to a story being developed first and he marketing second. In the BoG and Super's case it's very likely marketing IS dictating the story based on what we know about pre production on this.

Yes, that's the point. They don't know. I have no clue about how successful GT was or wasn't, but DB seems about as bulletproof as any property I've ever seen, so I don't know why they would think continually adding new forms was necessary to drum up interest in a property that continues to sell long after it stopped airing new episodes.

[MCDaveG]

I can't describe it by words, but if I can summarize my feelings, I would describe it in pictures.

Dragon Ball back then:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Dragon Ball now:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

A little bit of cherry picking with those images, don't you think?

Nostalgia IS about cherry picking, don't you think?

[nite_jay]

I can't describe it by words, but if I can summarize my feelings, I would describe it in pictures.

Dragon Ball back then:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Dragon Ball now:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

I don't think choosing a shitty calendar pic is fair. At least choose something like an official poster.

[Grimlock]

Dragon Ball back then:
[spoiler]][/spoiler]

Is this an official picture? If so, where does it come from?

[Lord Beerus]

I can't describe it by words, but if I can summarize my feelings, I would describe it in pictures.

Dragon Ball back then:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Dragon Ball now:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

A little bit of cherry picking with those images, don't you think?

Nostalgia IS about cherry picking, don't you think?

But isn't having nostalgia for an older a factor in how you a enjoy a new product within the same making your opinion a little biased and unfair?

[Zephyr]

There's no cherry picking in observing that the primary art style has changed. It's plastic, shiny, glossy, and bloated for the most part.

Yamamuro's character designs ain't what they used to be.

[Metalwario64]

There's no cherry picking in observing that the primary art style has changed. It's plastic, shiny, glossy, and bloated for the most part.

Yamamuro's character designs ain't what they used to be.

Yeah. For all of the good animation in the newly reanimated scenes in RoF, they don't look as good as they would have if they had better character models to work with.

[Bansho64]

There's no cherry picking in observing that the primary art style has changed. It's plastic, shiny, glossy, and bloated for the most part.

Yamamuro's character designs ain't what they used to be.

Yeah. For all of the good animation in the newly reanimated scenes in RoF, they don't look as good as they would have if they had better character models to work with.

Agreed. They had some smooth movement in there but those designs were pretty nasty to be honest

[Baggie_Saiyan]

There's no cherry picking in observing that the primary art style has changed. It's plastic, shiny, glossy, and bloated for the most part.

Yamamuro's character designs ain't what they used to be.

The art overall was a lot more interesting too. Like there was this wicked one where Vegeta's face was blending in the sky

Here it is:[spoiler][/spoiler]

Today we're stuck with these:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Even if the designs were better that's pretty darn boring in comparison.

[ABED]

Even if the designs were better that's pretty darn boring in comparison.

Because it's not blending into the sky?

[Metalwario64]

Even if the designs were better that's pretty darn boring in comparison.

Because it's not blending into the sky?

No. Most of the modern promotional art consists of bland cut and paste character art. There was certainly some of that in the older stuff, but most of it was better composed, and most of the older stuff had the characters drawn for the image, rather than just some cut and paste characters that would be recycled through multiple pieces.

[MCDaveG]

A little bit of cherry picking with those images, don't you think?

Nostalgia IS about cherry picking, don't you think?

But isn't having nostalgia for an older a factor in how you a enjoy a new product within the same making your opinion a little biased and unfair?

It is my opinion, you can call it whatever you want. You can agree with it or you can disagree with it.
Maybe that I will be biased and unfair for people enjoying modern anime which I don't. It's just a matter of taste, everyone is biased and unfair to people enjoying something different then.
Or we can be tolerant and liberal and just voice our opinions without being questioned. That's democracy. No one was presenting hard data and facts here.
In the end, it's just a matter of taste. Someone will like the modern take on Dragon Ball, I think that it lacks soul or the element it had during the DB and DBZ run.

[Bansho64]

It is my opinion, you can call it whatever you want. You can agree with it or you can disagree with it.
Maybe that I will be biased and unfair for people enjoying modern anime which I don't. It's just a matter of taste, everyone is biased and unfair to people enjoying something different then.
Or we can be tolerant and liberal and just voice our opinions without being questioned. That's democracy. No one was presenting hard data and facts here.
In the end, it's just a matter of taste. Someone will like the modern take on Dragon Ball, I think that it lacks soul or the element it had during the DB and DBZ run.

I'm right there with you dude. And this is coming from someone born in the modern age of DB and grew up with up with a mix of both so nostalgia doesn't mean a thing here. Technically, I'm still growing up with it. Also, do you happen to know who drew that Vegeta and Goku pic you posted.

[Metalwario64]

Also, do you happen to know who drew that Vegeta and Goku pic you posted.

Unfortunately, many have searched and nobody has been ably to identify that artist, who did most of the promo art in the late 80s throughout the 90s.

I wish they were still doing the art today, because the current go-to artist (look at the covers of Fusions and Extreme Butouden) is pretty terrible, with chubby proportions and no sense of action. Kunzait_83's Tumblr is dedicated to art from the 80s and 90s, and features many pieces by this artist. If you're a fan, it's an absolute treasure trove!

[MCDaveG]

I can't describe it by words, but if I can summarize my feelings, I would describe it in pictures.

Dragon Ball back then:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Dragon Ball now:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

I don't think choosing a shitty calendar pic is fair. At least choose something like an official poster.

Alright, glance upon this collage of cutouts. Better art than the calendar, but not much different + some older poster.
But as I say, it's just a matter of taste.

[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Kanassa]

I can't describe it by words, but if I can summarize my feelings, I would describe it in pictures.

Dragon Ball back then:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Dragon Ball now:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

I don't think choosing a shitty calendar pic is fair. At least choose something like an official poster.

Alright, glance upon this collage of cutouts. Better art than the calendar, but not much different + some older poster.
But as I say, it's just a matter of taste.

[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Damn, that second one is badass.