"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The Dragon Ball anime has always been problematic, like how they stretch the Tenkaichi Budokai to last over multiple days, or when they added an extra year in between the Freeza battle on Namek and Goku's return home, etc. I don't see a reason to let the minor things that probably aren't from Toriyama, like Vegeta's promise, take precedence over the rest of the grander story and the seemingly intended placement.

[alakazam^]

I'd really like to know whether that episode 1 script came from Toriyama or not because that might tell us what timeframe he has in his mind when writing his plot outlines. Talking about Oob was probably a Toei original but maybe that shows they think Super happens not long ago from Boo? While Trunks still went 17 years into the past, he didn't talk about having been training for over 10 years in the anime.

[Pannaliciour]

Hmm just read the manga

1)Ssj2 full power was nearly as strong as Goku
ssj3

2) ssj2 trunks >ssj2 Goku. I am convinced now, a higher transformation doesn't mean you previous transformation (or base) will improve!

3) I dont know why Vegeta was suprised about the fact he (Trunks) was nearly ssj3 level without transforming, he (Vegeta) did it himself agaist Beerus.Vegeta even surpassed ssj3.

4) It looks like Black is stronger in Manga? Or the gab between ssj2/ssj3 and ssj God is not that big? Goku said that he might have his hands full with Black and even asked Beerus to come with him.

5) i am pretty sure that ssj rose will kick Goku's and Vegeta's ass. Haha

[kinisking]

Hmm just read the manga

1)Ssj2 full power was nearly as strong as Goku
ssj3

2) ssj2 trunks >ssj2 Goku. I am convinced now, a higher transformation doesn't mean you previous transformation (or base) will improve!

3) I dont know why Vegeta was suprised about the fact he (Trunks) was nearly ssj3 level without transforming, he (Vegeta) did it himself agaist Beerus.Vegeta even surpassed ssj3.

4) It looks like Black is stronger in Manga? Or the gab between ssj2/ssj3 and ssj God is not that big? Goku said that he might have his hands full with Black and even asked Beerus to come with him.

5) i am pretty sure that ssj rose will kick Goku's and Vegeta's ass. Haha

Vegeta did it out of pure rage. It was temporary.

[Brettjr25]

The whole ss2 being greater or equal to ss3 because toriyama doesnt want to design any but goku with ss3 is pretty stupid. The problem is ss transformations are suppose to be multipliers so if their ss2 is equal to gokus ss3 than they should be >>>>>>> greater than goku. Also is they're pushing ss2 limits so hard why cant they break into ss3??

Lazy writing thats all. I dont know how to design women with ss so they're wont be any. Which i dont get, its easy to make them look ss and easy to make ss3 trunks and vegeta but whatever ignore plot logic to keep everything the same I guess.

[Doctor.]

The whole ss2 being greater or equal to ss3 because toriyama doesnt want to design any but goku with ss3 is pretty stupid. The problem is ss transformations are suppose to be multipliers so if their ss2 is equal to gokus ss3 than they should be >>>>>>> greater than goku. Also is they're pushing ss2 limits so hard why cant they break into ss3??

Lazy writing thats all. I dont know how to design women with ss so they're wont be any. Which i dont get, its easy to make them look ss and easy to make ss3 trunks and vegeta but whatever ignore plot logic to keep everything the same I guess.

They're only described as multipliers in the guidebooks, not in the series. I always interpreted that with enough training, you can increase a form's power, it's how I interpret Gohan and Goku's Cell Game training because there's no way their mastered SS form has the same multiplier as the normal one, that'd mean Grade 2 and 3 are stronger.

[VegettoEX]

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[DBZGTKOSDH]

I still don't understand what's your problem with Trunks being that strong guys. Trunks is a Saiyan/Earthling Halfling, so he naturally has much more potential than Goku & Vegeta, who have long since reached their prime in their base forms.

The whole ss2 being greater or equal to ss3 because toriyama doesnt want to design any but goku with ss3 is pretty stupid. The problem is ss transformations are suppose to be multipliers so if their ss2 is equal to gokus ss3 than they should be >>>>>>> greater than goku. Also is they're pushing ss2 limits so hard why cant they break into ss3??

Lazy writing thats all. I dont know how to design women with ss so they're wont be any. Which i dont get, its easy to make them look ss and easy to make ss3 trunks and vegeta but whatever ignore plot logic to keep everything the same I guess.

They're only described as multipliers in the guidebooks, not in the series. I always interpreted that with enough training, you can increase a form's power, it's how I interpret Gohan and Goku's Cell Game training because there's no way their mastered SS form has the same multiplier as the normal one, that'd mean Grade 2 and 3 are stronger.

Well, Toriyama supervised & approved the section in SEG that had the SS/2/3 multipliers, so it seems that he views them as multipliers too.

[Cipher]

Well, Toriyama supervised & approved the section in SEG that had the SS/2/3 multipliers, so it seems that he views them as multipliers too.

It doesn't seem like the thing he'd put much thought into, though, or adhere to strictly when writing. Thinking of them as multipliers in a general sense makes sense, especially given Kaioken's introduction, but I doubt in practice he's ever viewed them as much more than general, flexible power-ups.

And yes, I agree with Doctor.: Goku and Gohan's improvements on the Super Saiyan form prior to the Cell Games establishes a precedent for improving transformations that allows something like Trunks' version of Super Saiyan 2 to be introduced without wildly violating any of the series' logic (or what passes for it). For various reasons, no one had the time or motivation to single-mindedly focus on the form in the way Trunks might have, especially seeing what Goku and Gohan did shortly before he returned to his timeline. And it's not presented as the same sort of unwieldy form Super Saiyan 3 is.

[fadeddreams5]

Hey, I just read the translated manga. Man, this is good. I really like the changes Toyotaro brings to the table. The manga completely answered my question as to why the kaioshin didn't help Trunks. He nails the characters better than the anime too.

Plus, a mastered SSJ2 Trunks? Neat. It's stated he reached a level close to SSJ3, but not exactly there, so I don't see why people dislike this. Better than Rage Vegeta ascending beyond SSJ3 in an instant.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It doesn't seem like the thing he'd put much thought into, though, or adhere to strictly when writing.

How do you know?

[Zeru14]

Hey, I just read the translated manga. Man, this is good. I really like the changes Toyotaro brings to the table. The manga completely answered my question as to why the kaioshin didn't help Trunks. He nails the characters better than the anime too.

Plus, a mastered SSJ2 Trunks? Neat. It's stated he reached a level close to SSJ3, but not exactly there, so I don't see why people dislike this. Better than Rage Vegeta ascending beyond SSJ3 in an instant.

I agree, Future Trunks is representing the theme of the "next generation surpasses the previous". A common theme in Naruto, Bleach and One Piece. Future Trunks is beloved because he's during what Gohan, Kid Trunks and Goten aren't(not can't just aren't).

[dbzfan7]

I still don't think the whole Trunks thing is perfectly logical, but as it overall is still one of the more believable things Super has done over it's usual shitting the bed like GT logic. However another thing that has me on board for this awesome Trunks, is that he is more competent than he has ever been. He's not put on a pedestal as he's still nothing to Goku and Vegeta, but he shows on his own he's grown more skilled and competent unlike when we last saw him. So it's real good to see he's improved in such a unique and interesting way. He pulled off the Vegeta/Freeza thing way better than they did.

[Bansho64]

Just a question, but what kinda potential do y'all see in Toyotaro as a story writer? I see a lot to be honest. I know the anime has 5 episode writers but he seems to be doing his own version of the story pretty well and I'd argue that there are moments where he outshines the anime.

[Patrolman Jaco]

The manga continues to be superior to the anime, the fight choreography between Black and Future Trunks was great, showing off more of Black's abilities and Trunks wit. With little details like Future Trunks forgetting to disconnect the time machine to show how hastily he tried to make his escape, which makes the scene feel more intense than the anime version.

Toyotaro's characterization is also better than the anime. In the manga Goku actually seems to care about helping Future Trunks he even asked Beerus and Whis to come along because he wasn't feeling confident whereas in the anime he's more interested in getting a good fight. Manga Vegeta being proud that Future Trunks was able to handle the Majin Buu situation. While both versions show Vegeta being annoyed at Future Trunks coming back to this timeline after losing to Black, in the manga he seems more annoyed Future Trunks came back with no means of returning to his own timeline whereas in the anime he seems mad Future Trunks came back at all. Toyotaro also remembered Yajirobe's mustache.

The reveal about the connection between the God of Destruction and the Kaioshins felt more natural here since it was used to explain why Black has gone about his business uncontested, in the anime that piece of information was just randomly put out there.

I do miss some little tidbits from the anime like Black's psychotic grin after being punched by Future Trunks, Goku blocking Future Trunks sword with two fingers and Future Trunks mistaking Whis for the God of Destruction. I would give the anime a point for showing the battle between Future Trunks and Dabura but the fight was pretty lacklustre.

[ekrolo2]

Just a question, but what kinda potential do y'all see in Toyotaro as a story writer? I see a lot to be honest. I know the anime has 5 episode writers but he seems to be doing his own version of the story pretty well and I'd argue that there are moments where he outshines the anime.

I'll just put it this way, if the manga and anime were both coming out every week, I wouldn't ever watch the anime except YT clips to see how it approached something in comparison to the manga.

[samuo2]

As a writer, I saw a lot of people, who followed his previous works (fanmanga in majority), saying that he's bad at that. Unfortunately I didn't have an overall view or a detailled opinion.

It's surprising when I see efforts he brings to make his version of Dragon Ball Super this coherent, and more logic to my sens than the anime version.

[LightBing]

Just a question, but what kinda potential do y'all see in Toyotaro as a story writer? I see a lot to be honest. I know the anime has 5 episode writers but he seems to be doing his own version of the story pretty well and I'd argue that there are moments where he outshines the anime.

Based on this manga it's difficult to tell. He is consistent in the details and information introduced, something the anime lacks. Still the thick of the plot is from Mr.Toriyama.
I like his fight's, Vegeta vs Magetta was a pretty great gag-fight, reminiscing of early Dragon Ball. Kudos to him for that.

[Patrolman Jaco]

Wouldn't it make sense to say that if Freeza's True form is only about Cell Saga SSJ2 that Goku's Base now a days could be the same? I mean if we're under the impression that his base is indeed SSG itself then he'd stomped Freeza and there would have been no need to go SSJB agaisn't Golden Freeza, or at least he'd fought in Base a little before pulling out SSJB against Golden Freeza.

In chapter 5 of the Dragon Ball Super manga we see SSB Vegeta blast Base Goku at point blank range, we even get a shot of Beerus planet to show how large scale the attack was yet, Goku was able to come out unharmed of course Vegeta wasn't trying to grievously harm him but even a causal attack from Beerus was able to knock out SS3 Goku. With that in mind, it's hard to believe that current Base Goku is only Cell saga SSJ2 tier or Buu saga Base Goku tier.

Also Goku did stomp Freeza in the RoF movie remember how Piccolo remarked that Base Goku didn't take a single blow from Final Form Freeza? Besides Freeza's training made him God tier hence why he was able to one shot Gohan and why his Golden form was initially stronger than SSB before he started losing stamina.

Hell even in the Champa arc Base Goku was able to take hits from Hit way better than Vegeta could in his SSB form. Even taking into account Vegeta only being 1/10th as strong as normal he still should be way stronger than Majin arc Base Goku.

Technically we didn't, Not in the promotional continuity.
It was skipped over in the rebooted manga series continuity. The RoF manga is technically for the movies and not the Super continuity.

The ROF manga that Toyotaro did was a promotion for the movie, also the DBS manga isn't a reboot and should follow the BoG and ROF movies since both
were written by Toriyama.

Toyotarou's "F" adaptation was completed prior to the announcement of Super -- certainly prior to him learning anything about the Universe 6 arc and its reintroduction of Super Saiyan -- and has never been marketed as part of the Super promotional manga.

Why would that matter? Most of the series was made without Toriyama knowing what would come next.

[Bansho64]

As a writer, I saw a lot of people, who followed his previous works (fanmanga in majority), saying that he's bad at that. Unfortunately I didn't have an overall view or a detailled opinion.

It's surprising when I see efforts he brings to make his version of Dragon Ball Super this coherent, and more logic to my sens than the anime version.

I'm honestly not sure how his previous works are. If there was an improvement in his story-telling, having Toriyama around to help him improve and get better might be a factor. It's like being tutored by Slash on how to play guitar.