Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

Which has been backfiring on the series for a while and why it's not as good as it was before the time skip.

It's also what ruined Bleach.

The ones that are still on Zou are going to Wano to prepare to fight Kaido and to get the Road Poneglyph that he has so they are still relevant. It's not like Yamcha or the others are doing anything important like Zoro, Robin, Law and Franky are doing now.

And because Toriyama isn't trying to make everyone important the series hasn't become a disjointed mess. All that happens in One Piece these days is the characters get split up and a bunch of them will disappear for ages because Oda can't think of how to keep them all active along with all the new characters so half of them get sent along out the way.

You know, this only happened in Dressrosa but people make it out like it's happened several times but whatever, they're still important because they're starting the mission on the next island while Luffy, Nami, Brook and Chopper get Sanji so the Wano arc won't go on for a long time. I doubt Totland is going to be as long as Dressrosa, they'll move onto Wano soon. Also, Dragon Ball has turned into a disjointed mess and Super is evident of that. But I'm not here to try and start an arguement, I just think you're biased towards Dragon Ball and wrong.

[FortuneSSJ]

DB hasn't even done the next generation type of stories and probably never will.

DB is full of time skips. We had Goku's generation, Gohan in DBZ, Goten and Trunks in Buu arc, Pan in GT, and Goku Jr in A Hero's Legacy special.
Only because it wasn't done the same way than Digimon or Boruto did, introducing a lot of new kids at the same time, doesn't mean we didn't have different generations.

You make it sound as if DBZ is pulling off the time skips/next generation thing well or something. Naruto/Boruto has the potential to do it better than DBZ. It's not finished yet so we'll see how it goes. And I wouldn't call inspiration a desperate rip off. The creator of Naruto has already stated many times how inspired he is by Dragon Ball.

Boruto doesn't have potential for anything. Naruto became a mess during the last arc and the end was just a terrible fanservice with a lot of couples, that don't make sense in the first place.

The last chapters just seem to be another Dragon Ball rip off, this time from the Saiyan arc:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
Two guys who know Naruto's identity, come from nowhere and are looking for him, who has a son now.
Instead of Raditz, looks like Nappa and Vegeta came first in Boruto.

And the way they talk "I can sense multiple large chakras. They are gathering together." It's Dragon Ball. Replace chakra for Ki and it's the same thing, word by word.
Even though a lot of battle shonens have their own power system, DB was the only one that had stuff like this. Looks like they already found the Dragon Team!

Oh yeah, and it looks like flying and aliens in Naruto is becoming a norm, even though it's supposed to be a Ninja world...

The line between inspiration and rip off is a thin one, and looks like Kishimoto always crosses it.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Totland wont be as long as Dressrosa

Dude, I love One Piece, it is my favorite anime/manga, and I still know that's a vain hope. People are just too excited about this arc but in time it too will grow into hate once it gets it to its full length. Dressrosa was exactly like that. People kept saying "This arc will redeem the time skip" or whatever. I dont think the timeskip needed any redeeming but overhyping stuff will hurt your enjoyment in the long run.

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

Totland wont be as long as Dressrosa

Dude, I love One Piece, it is my favorite anime/manga, and I still know that's a vain hope. People are just too excited about this arc but in time it too will grow into hate once it gets it to its full length. Dressrosa was exactly like that. People kept saying "This arc will redeem the time skip" or whatever. I dont think the timeskip needed any redeeming but overhyping stuff will hurt your enjoyment in the long run.

I don't know, I'm pretty sure it won't be as long as Dressrosa but even if it is, I'll still enjoy it because I enjoyed Dressrosa and I'm loving this arc so far. People just seem to think the whole crew getting seperated thing has been happening in every arc recently and it hasn't. People told me that Dressrosa dragged but I enjoyed it.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Now THAT'S more like it. Having a positive and fun attitude like that is always best.

[Bullza]

You know, this only happened in Dressrosa but people make it out like it's happened several times but whatever, they're still important because they're starting the mission on the next island while Luffy, Nami, Brook and Chopper get Sanji so the Wano arc won't go on for a long time. I doubt Totland is going to be as long as Dressrosa, they'll move onto Wano soon. Also, Dragon Ball has turned into a disjointed mess and Super is evident of that. But I'm not here to try and start an arguement, I just think you're biased towards Dragon Ball and wrong.

It happened prior to the time skip. It sort of happened on Punk Hazard except they were still on the same island. It happened with Dressrosa and now it's happening yet again.

People can claim that it's important but it's obvious why it's being done. There's far too many characters, nine straw hats, usually other allies (seems to be more and more each time now) and the villains and Oda has no idea what to do with that many characters at once.

So now he conveniently sends a few them off to do something "important" but it's really just him trying to reduce the amount of characters to make it easier. It's that which is probably affecting popularity at the moment.

Dunno why you'd bring up bias though especially as you have a One Piece avatar and you rushed to the defence of something I said over 2 weeks ago.

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

You know, this only happened in Dressrosa but people make it out like it's happened several times but whatever, they're still important because they're starting the mission on the next island while Luffy, Nami, Brook and Chopper get Sanji so the Wano arc won't go on for a long time. I doubt Totland is going to be as long as Dressrosa, they'll move onto Wano soon. Also, Dragon Ball has turned into a disjointed mess and Super is evident of that. But I'm not here to try and start an arguement, I just think you're biased towards Dragon Ball and wrong.

It happened prior to the time skip. It sort of happened on Punk Hazard except they were still on the same island. It happened with Dressrosa and now it's happening yet again.

People can claim that it's important but it's obvious why it's being done. There's far too many characters, nine straw hats, usually other allies (seems to be more and more each time now) and the villains and Oda has no idea what to do with that many characters at once.

So now he conveniently sends a few them off to do something "important" but it's really just him trying to reduce the amount of characters to make it easier. It's that which is probably affecting popularity at the moment.

Dunno why you'd bring up bias though especially as you have a One Piece avatar and you rushed to the defence of something I said over 2 weeks ago.

Affecting popularity? Yeah, no. I don't have a bias, I can criticize One Piece for it's problems too even though I love it so much. But again, I don't want to start an argument.

[SaiyanZ]

Dragon Ball is one of the best battle shonen to me, Yu Yu Hakusho is my second favorite but I think Dragon Ball is better than it. I also love Gintama. though the Rakuyou SHowdown arc is complete garbage.

[Bullza]

Affecting popularity? Yeah, no.

Yeah pretty much. You had volumes selling over 2.9 million copies in a month at its peak. Towards the end of the Dressrosa saga it went to about 2.7 million and then since then the one volume sold 2.4 million and the next 2.29 million which is the lowest in years.

Latest episode had TV ratings of 6.9% which is the first time Id ever seen it below a 7.0%. Before this year I rarely saw it dip below an 8.0%.

On Google trends One Piece is currently on the decline.

And the newest One Piece Film Gold movie has made ¥4.78 billion with 3.58 million tickets sold by its 6th weekend. Film Z has made ¥6.31 billion with 5.23 million tickets sold by its 6th weekend.

That's an entire 32% drop in ticket sales and that movie had twice as many screens, 4DX and 3D compared to Film Z.

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

Affecting popularity? Yeah, no.

Yeah pretty much. You had volumes selling over 2.9 million copies in a month at its peak. Towards the end of the Dressrosa saga it went to about 2.7 million and then since then the one volume sold 2.4 million and the next 2.29 million which is the lowest in years.

Latest episode had TV ratings of 6.9% which is the first time Id ever seen it below a 7.0%. Before this year I rarely saw it dip below an 8.0%.

On Google trends One Piece is currently on the decline.

And the newest One Piece Film Gold movie has made ¥4.78 billion with 3.58 million tickets sold by its 6th weekend. Film Z has made ¥6.31 billion with 5.23 million tickets sold by its 6th weekend.

That's an entire 32% drop in ticket sales and that movie had twice as many screens, 4DX and 3D compared to Film Z.

It's still popular because it broke records at the Box Office but Japan is probably feeling a bit of fatigue also it's the summer movie season so everyone is feeling fatigue. I won't say anything more after this.

[sintzu]

Yeah pretty much. You had volumes selling over 2.9 million copies in a month at its peak. Towards the end of the Dressrosa saga it went to about 2.7 million and then since then the one volume sold 2.4 million and the next 2.29 million which is the lowest in years.

Latest episode had TV ratings of 6.9% which is the first time Id ever seen it below a 7.0%. Before this year I rarely saw it dip below an 8.0%.

On Google trends One Piece is currently on the decline.

And the newest One Piece Film Gold movie has made ¥4.78 billion with 3.58 million tickets sold by its 6th weekend. Film Z has made ¥6.31 billion with 5.23 million tickets sold by its 6th weekend.

That's an entire 32% drop in ticket sales and that movie had twice as many screens, 4DX and 3D compared to Film Z.

I haven't gone past the water 7 arc yet (One of my favorite anime arcs) so I can't say if its quality has dropped or not (although I've read that its been going down ever since the time skip) but the reason the ratings and sales are going down could be because of how long its been going on and how there's no ending in sight.

Next year will be its 20th anniversary and according to Oda he's only finished 65% or so of the story so we're looking at another 10 years give or take which is insane so people and even die hard fans could just be getting tired and want a break and if what I read about the post time skip content is true then maybe Oda needs a break as well.

Dragon Ball on the other hand has been on ice for nearly 20 years so everyone including the people who don't like it are excited about it and where Toriyama will take it, regardless of how bad it messes up sometimes.

[Bullza]

I haven't gone past the water 7 arc yet (One of my favorite anime arcs) so I can't say if its quality has dropped or not (although I've read that its been going down ever since the time skip) but the reason the ratings and sales are going down could be because of how long its been going on and how there's no ending in sight.

Next year will be its 20th anniversary and according to Oda he's only finished 65% or so of the story so we're looking at another 10 years give or take which is insane so people and even die hard fans could just be getting tired and want a break and if what I read about the post time skip content is true then maybe Oda needs a break as well.

Dragon Ball on the other hand has been on ice for nearly 20 years so everyone including the people who don't like it are excited about it and where Toriyama will take it, regardless of how bad it messes up sometimes.

Well everyone has their own opinions on quality. I have seen a lot of people that have the belief that it went downhill after the timeskip. I have been reading the series since 2008, I've bought all the volumes available and personally I agree completely that it went downhill.

The Water 7 arc was fantastic. For me it peaked around the White beard War arc which was prior to the timeskip and then ever since then it hasn't been as good, in fact it hasn't been nearly as good. If interest is dropping I can see why, it's certainly not bad or anything but it's not great.

Last I heard it was 70% done. It's nowhere near done. Whether it's taking too long and people are getting bored I don't know. I'd guess it'd be more to do with the quality if anything though. Oda is just introducing more characters than he knows what to do with now.

[Captain Strawberry]

Dragon ball is like the classic foundation of what too look back to or to refer. The action has drama, techniques, silence and straight up action with segments of no talking. Like Goku staring down with Frieza and the wind blowing.

Saying this, I think many battle shonen have surpassed Dragon ball as a battle shonen like HxH or another great example: Gintoki vs Shinsuke.

[Deathbringer]

Yeah, Dragon Ball is influential but it also has lots of problems with things like its inconsistent tone and not being able to keep all the main characters relevant, these problems were fixed in most of the series that took DB as their main source of inspiration.

[ABED]

Yeah, Dragon Ball is influential but it also has lots of problems with things like its inconsistent tone and not being able to keep all the main characters relevant, these problems were fixed in most of the series that took DB as their main source of inspiration.

Stories don't need to have consistent tones.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Yeah, Dragon Ball is influential but it also has lots of problems with things like its inconsistent tone and not being able to keep all the main characters relevant, these problems were fixed in most of the series that took DB as their main source of inspiration.

Stories don't need to have consistent tones.

Outside of comic relief, it would be really weird if a series just suddenly felt totally different.

[ABED]

Yeah, Dragon Ball is influential but it also has lots of problems with things like its inconsistent tone and not being able to keep all the main characters relevant, these problems were fixed in most of the series that took DB as their main source of inspiration.

Stories don't need to have consistent tones.

Outside of comic relief, it would be really weird if a series just suddenly felt totally different.

The tone switch often in many of the best movies and TV shows. There are dark episodes, arcs, scenes, in addition to light episodes, arcs, and scenes. I'm not sure how that means a series feels totally different or if that would neccessarily be a bad thing. One of the reasons Kuririn's death works so well the first time is it comes right after such a joyous moment. Goku's feeling good in spite of a loss, but the carpet is pulled right out from under him.

Shonen such as Yu Yu Hakusho switch up the tone.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Stories don't need to have consistent tones.

Outside of comic relief, it would be really weird if a series just suddenly felt totally different.

The tone switch often in many of the best movies and TV shows. There are dark episodes, arcs, scenes, in addition to light episodes, arcs, and scenes. I'm not sure how that means a series feels totally different or if that would neccessarily be a bad thing. One of the reasons Kuririn's death works so well the first time is it comes right after such a joyous moment. Goku's feeling good in spite of a loss, but the carpet is pulled right out from under him.

Shonen such as Yu Yu Hakusho switch up the tone.

We must be talking about different things(actually, i guess i used the word tone wrong). I was really talking about the style (or something). For example, Yu Yu Hakusho only has 2 style changes that i could tell, one at the dark tournament where it became a battle manga proper, and one during the Sensui arc where it becomes proto-Hunter×Hunter. Tone as in the levety or drama in a paricular scene can and should vary thoughout a series to some degree, or else there's no breaks and or rising action/falling action. Kuririns death is definitely a tone change, and i guess a slight style change too, in hindsight.

[ABED]

We must be talking about different things(actually, i guess i used the word tone wrong). I was really talking about the style (or something). For example, Yu Yu Hakusho only has 2 style changes that i could tell, one at the dark tournament where it became a battle manga proper, and one during the Sensui arc where it becomes proto-Hunter×Hunter. Tone as in the levety or drama in a paricular scene can and should vary thoughout a series to some degree, or else there's no breaks and or rising action/falling action. Kuririns death is definitely a tone change, and i guess a slight style change too, in hindsight.

Even in that case, I think there are ways it can work if the style and structure changes.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Only other battle shounen I watch is Fairy Tail. Mashisma said he was inspired by Toriyama's Dragon Ball and it does show time to time. Fairy Tail's main battle fights are done really well and the soundtrack is great like Dragon Ball the character interactions are great and some "slice of life" episodes end up being really good like in Super. Unlike DB it does however attempt to be really emotional time to time and has has strong female characters in that regard DB does need to improve, a female villain in DB would be great.