Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[dbzfan7]

Wait. Is Trunks suppose to be stronger now? When was this stated?

I think it was stated in one of the previews somewhere. Though I'm bugged by the training with Vegeta so far hasn't lead to really anything yet. Hopefully we get back to that later, or else perhaps that little interaction was just padding.

[HeroR]

Wait. Is Trunks suppose to be stronger now? When was this stated?

It wasn't. All that was said about Trunks' power level is that he stood no chance against Black and Zamasu.

[omaro34]

Making sense of PL's in Super is an impossible task. Trunks surviving Black's Kamehameha wave; the same wave that crippled SSJB Goku was the icing on the cake for me.

[HeroR]

Making sense of PL's in Super is an impossible task. Trunks surviving Black's Kamehameha wave; the same wave that crippled SSJB Goku was the icing on the cake for me.

DBZ did the same thing. 60 million Freeza didn't kill Goku in one punch, and an exhausted Piccolo was able to take hits from 50% Freeza, remain conscious, and fight.

[Alee9977]

We can complain all we want but the result was pretty obvious, Goku and Trunks defeated by Black and inmortal Zamas.
And why everyone keeps complaining about Super's power levels? I mean, it's not like in DBZ they made sense, just remember the time when Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha and even Krillin's full power didn't do anything to Cell and just a little ki blast from Vegeta hurts him. Or just base Vegeta vs Kid Buu...

[Bullza]

Wait. Is Trunks suppose to be stronger now? When was this stated?

It comes from this.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Which Herm's translated as Trunks fights alongside Goku and he shows off his power which has greatly increased through training.

[dbzfan7]

Wait. Is Trunks suppose to be stronger now? When was this stated?

It comes from this.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Which Herm's translated as Trunks fights alongside Goku and he shows off his power which has greatly increased through training.

Yeah thanks, that was what I was trying to remember. Guess it could be argued the show didn't say that, so it doesn't count. Dunno depends on the person I guess.

[ZombieVito]

But what intense training? Meditating for a few minutes and getting his ass kicked?

If this is true then it means base Trunks is stronger than base Goku and Vegeta...

[Bullza]

If this is true then it means base Trunks is stronger than base Goku and Vegeta...

That's the impression I've had ever since the latest manga chapter.

The training thing is weird though because Trunks fought Vegeta, said there was no need for him to train because Goku and Vegeta could beat him, Vegeta chews him out for thinking that and so Trunks has a change of heart and vows to surpass his father and beat Black....

But the very next day they go to the future so that they could defeat Black. Doesn't really give Trunks much of a chance to do anything does it?

So his strenght increasing greatly through training makes sense with what he said after fighting Vegeta but there shouldn't have been the time for him to act on it.

[buutenks]

Welp, PL in the anime got thrown out the window. Which doesn't bother me so much.

[ssbgoku]

Hello guys, I know most of you or at least more of you give up about power levels/comparision and just accept to make Everyone as strong as plot required to be but I guess there is still way to make sense out of it, so hear me out:

Notes:

1) I take ssg above current ss3 goku, just because I believe Akira either meant something deeper or it was retconn with super Saiyan god power absorbed. I believe Akira meant that goku absorbed this power which was crimson fire burning inside him but it was slowly fading away while super Saiyan allowed him to hang on this fire and prolong it a bit more before fire fades away to just ember/small fire and then goku needed whis's training to bring it back through ssb transformation

2) I consider Copy water arc as filler, especially the fight with gotenks and between goku and vegeta as it wasn't also in the manga. I mean even although anime adressed it in trunks arc, it was still only short mention but no details about fight. IN other words Copy water arc happened in cannon but the fighting scenes and outcomes would be totally different as there weren't any flashbacks to it as it was to Z's scenes(ss2 kid gohan).

3) At this point ssb stacked up with kaiokenx10 should be treated as filler or non-cannon as we saw in current episode especially where gowasu watched goku fighting against hit and they cut off tournament fight just after goku turned ssb and fought hit(some can say that was only point about episode, mortal gaining divine ki), however then why not go futher and show kaiokenx10 ssb to make Zamasu even more pissed and going for it.

Finally about episode itself.

1) About Zamasu everyone already explained how Zamasu fought well and on par with ssb goku(refference to goku comparing Zamasu potential to beerus's power), while he would either allowed Trunks to hitting him on and hurt him to show off his immortality and make him give up hope, more helpless. Unless Zamasu's immortal body make him just as strong as his opponent to further increase his battle power and never let him loose which would be pretty hax and tricky ability.

2) About SSR Black fighting against Goku, it was ok but you can clearly see Black's sadistic side and enjoying making other pain while being only supperior (Zamasu demanded to leave killing goku to him, so it could be this or Black goku's body being thrilled fighting against goku for some reason). Lastly about Trunks matching SSR Black, well first we need to know that from context Black was only focused on attacking goku as he considered trunks not threat and bug to him. Trunks just sneaked in and suprised Black, also Black seems to lower or raise his power in seconds just like goku, why would he do that ?, simply to keep pushing himself and raising his battle power by fighting equally or on par enemy. About SSR black clashing with Trunks's sword, well maybe ki's density requires a lot more ki to overpower iron/metal so it could be at point too.

The most important fact is that neither of Trunks attack make any impact on Black or Zamasu and goku cofirms it, so you only need to find explanation why either Black or Zamasu hold back or just got suprised/sneaked in by him...Either that or Trunks is actually in process of transforming in ssb, the state like goku was as ss against beerus...

Funny they again forgot to adress to ss2 and differ from ss... really hilarious. Lastly about SS Trunks taking on Kamehameha of SSR Black, either ssb goku absorbed and tanked most of it, or for sake of not killing them Zamasu tanked and protected a bit Trunks to not kill him right away to prolong torture of them... they are both sadistic so expect unexpected.

[dbs fanboy]

The only thing that doesn't make any sense to me here is Trunks surviving that Kamehameha.

Zamasu has an inmortal body why should he care about the hits he receive he should only be focusing on fighting and he was kicking the two saiyajin's asses as well.
Black wasn't harmed from the sneak attack, and he was more focused on Goku.

So yeah pretty much like Trunks was able to do all this shit cause the plot. They couldn't leave Goku alone as he would die, they can't made Trunks die from that kamehameha cause he's the main character of this arc.

Also don't compare this to GT a terrible show (just kidding i just wanted to see you losing it XD)

[ssbgoku]

The only thing that doesn't make any sense to me here is Trunks surviving that Kamehameha.

Zamasu has an inmortal body why should he care about the hits he receive he should only be focusing on fighting and he was kicking the two saiyajin's asses as well.
Black wasn't harmed from the sneak attack, and he was more focused on Goku.

So yeah pretty much like Trunks was able to do all this shit cause the plot. They couldn't leave Goku alone as he would die, they can't made Trunks die from that kamehameha cause he's the main character of this arc.

Also don't compare this to GT a terrible show (just kidding i just wanted to see you losing it XD)

Just one interesting point to make is goku was still ssb after tanking that kamehameha, so it wasn't like Trunks would be stronger or close to him as Trunks was laying on ground while goku was commented to be in no shape to fight. Trunks was out of ki or so was said. Still Zamasu could tank some power to make them only seriously hurt... or Goku protected Trunks with ssb power like invisible barrier.

[dbs fanboy]

The only thing that doesn't make any sense to me here is Trunks surviving that Kamehameha.

Zamasu has an inmortal body why should he care about the hits he receive he should only be focusing on fighting and he was kicking the two saiyajin's asses as well.
Black wasn't harmed from the sneak attack, and he was more focused on Goku.

So yeah pretty much like Trunks was able to do all this shit cause the plot. They couldn't leave Goku alone as he would die, they can't made Trunks die from that kamehameha cause he's the main character of this arc.

Also don't compare this to GT a terrible show (just kidding i just wanted to see you losing it XD)

Just one interesting point to make is goku was still ssb after tanking that kamehameha, so it wasn't like Trunks would be stronger or close to him as Trunks was laying on ground while goku was commented to be in no shape to fight. Trunks was out of ki or so was said. Still Zamasu could tank some power to make them only seriously hurt... or Goku protected Trunks with ssb power like invisible barrier.

If Trunks lost his transformation plus remaining unconcious, it would make sense, Goku still had some energy but Trunks couldn't take it.

[ekrolo2]

If this is true then it means base Trunks is stronger than base Goku and Vegeta...

That's the impression I've had ever since the latest manga chapter.

The training thing is weird though because Trunks fought Vegeta, said there was no need for him to train because Goku and Vegeta could beat him, Vegeta chews him out for thinking that and so Trunks has a change of heart and vows to surpass his father and beat Black....

But the very next day they go to the future so that they could defeat Black. Doesn't really give Trunks much of a chance to do anything does it?

So his strenght increasing greatly through training makes sense with what he said after fighting Vegeta but there shouldn't have been the time for him to act on it.

I don't think Trunks' base is stronger than Goku and Vegeta's for the manga. As I detailed in a previous post, his SS2 strength is probably him applying Goku's "lets master SS1" mentality to SS2, allowing him to use energy he'd previously waste to activate/maintain the form to power it up beyond its limits, at least for a short while. Whereas Goku and the others just sort of abandoned this mentality and went with getting more powerful forms, even if they were actually kind of detrimental like SS3 and Blue (in the manga).

Trunks even said he suspected there was a level beyond 2 but he probably couldn't make his body do it properly as 3 probably needs special conditions to even be achievable.

[dbgtFO]

Good ol Toei and their video-game logic:
Everyone can fight everyone, some just have a bigger health bar than others, making them extremely hard to beat.

[Lord Frieza]

We can complain all we want but the result was pretty obvious, Goku and Trunks defeated by Black and inmortal Zamas.
And why everyone keeps complaining about Super's power levels? I mean, it's not like in DBZ they made sense, just remember the time when Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha and even Krillin's full power didn't do anything to Cell and just a little ki blast from Vegeta hurts him. Or just base Vegeta vs Kid Buu...

Thats not even the worst of it, Nappa has an official power level of what...about 4000? And he wipes the floor with a team who's combined power is over 5000 and lasts longer then 2 seconds against Goku who is twice as strong.

[TheMikado]

We can complain all we want but the result was pretty obvious, Goku and Trunks defeated by Black and inmortal Zamas.
And why everyone keeps complaining about Super's power levels? I mean, it's not like in DBZ they made sense, just remember the time when Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha and even Krillin's full power didn't do anything to Cell and just a little ki blast from Vegeta hurts him. Or just base Vegeta vs Kid Buu...

Thats not even the worst of it, Nappa has an official power level of what...about 4000? And he wipes the floor with a team who's combined power is over 5000 and lasts longer then 2 seconds against Goku who is twice as strong.

Well no this is completely different Goku was fairly casual about his battle with Nappa and not even trying.
By contrast this would be like Nappa and Vegeta teaming up on Goku and Full Power kaioken Goku does a kamehama on both but Nappa comes out better from the blast.

[TheMikado]

Hello guys, I know most of you or at least more of you give up about power levels/comparision and just accept to make Everyone as strong as plot required to be but I guess there is still way to make sense out of it, so hear me out:

Notes:

1) I take ssg above current ss3 goku, just because I believe Akira either meant something deeper or it was retconn with super Saiyan god power absorbed. I believe Akira meant that goku absorbed this power which was crimson fire burning inside him but it was slowly fading away while super Saiyan allowed him to hang on this fire and prolong it a bit more before fire fades away to just ember/small fire and then goku needed whis's training to bring it back through ssb transformation

2) I consider Copy water arc as filler, especially the fight with gotenks and between goku and vegeta as it wasn't also in the manga. I mean even although anime adressed it in trunks arc, it was still only short mention but no details about fight. IN other words Copy water arc happened in cannon but the fighting scenes and outcomes would be totally different as there weren't any flashbacks to it as it was to Z's scenes(ss2 kid gohan).

3) At this point ssb stacked up with kaiokenx10 should be treated as filler or non-cannon as we saw in current episode especially where gowasu watched goku fighting against hit and they cut off tournament fight just after goku turned ssb and fought hit(some can say that was only point about episode, mortal gaining divine ki), however then why not go futher and show kaiokenx10 ssb to make Zamasu even more pissed and going for it.

Finally about episode itself.

1) About Zamasu everyone already explained how Zamasu fought well and on par with ssb goku(refference to goku comparing Zamasu potential to beerus's power), while he would either allowed Trunks to hitting him on and hurt him to show off his immortality and make him give up hope, more helpless. Unless Zamasu's immortal body make him just as strong as his opponent to further increase his battle power and never let him loose which would be pretty hax and tricky ability.

2) About SSR Black fighting against Goku, it was ok but you can clearly see Black's sadistic side and enjoying making other pain while being only supperior (Zamasu demanded to leave killing goku to him, so it could be this or Black goku's body being thrilled fighting against goku for some reason). Lastly about Trunks matching SSR Black, well first we need to know that from context Black was only focused on attacking goku as he considered trunks not threat and bug to him. Trunks just sneaked in and suprised Black, also Black seems to lower or raise his power in seconds just like goku, why would he do that ?, simply to keep pushing himself and raising his battle power by fighting equally or on par enemy. About SSR black clashing with Trunks's sword, well maybe ki's density requires a lot more ki to overpower iron/metal so it could be at point too.

The most important fact is that neither of Trunks attack make any impact on Black or Zamasu and goku cofirms it, so you only need to find explanation why either Black or Zamasu hold back or just got suprised/sneaked in by him...Either that or Trunks is actually in process of transforming in ssb, the state like goku was as ss against beerus...

Funny they again forgot to adress to ss2 and differ from ss... really hilarious. Lastly about SS Trunks taking on Kamehameha of SSR Black, either ssb goku absorbed and tanked most of it, or for sake of not killing them Zamasu tanked and protected a bit Trunks to not kill him right away to prolong torture of them... they are both sadistic so expect unexpected.

So basically you believe in the manga power levels.

[Lord Frieza]

We can complain all we want but the result was pretty obvious, Goku and Trunks defeated by Black and inmortal Zamas.
And why everyone keeps complaining about Super's power levels? I mean, it's not like in DBZ they made sense, just remember the time when Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha and even Krillin's full power didn't do anything to Cell and just a little ki blast from Vegeta hurts him. Or just base Vegeta vs Kid Buu...

Thats not even the worst of it, Nappa has an official power level of what...about 4000? And he wipes the floor with a team who's combined power is over 5000 and lasts longer then 2 seconds against Goku who is twice as strong.

Well no this is completely different Goku was fairly casual about his battle with Nappa and not even trying.
By contrast this would be like Nappa and Vegeta teaming up on Goku and Full Power kaioken Goku does a kamehama on both but Nappa comes out better from the blast.

Ok then how about Goku not being able to catch up to Nappa in time to stop him from killing Gohan and Krillian without kaio-kan despite in theory being twice as fast?

I'm not saying there's not issue here, just point other issue out even if they are a lesser sin. You want better one's Goku being knocked out his SS4 form by one rebounded kamehameha x10, Goku not completely murdering Oceanus Shenron despite the very clear difference in power and not even bothering to transform, somehow fusing to Cell saga level androids make a warrior powerful enough to own post Buu Gohan, Vegeta and Majubb without absorbing their ki first and Pan knocking Rildo down despite the fact that he's stronger then her and should have been more then capable of dodging it.

Thats not me GT bashing, I have said before I enjoy GT but it to has had power level errors that are criticizable in their own right.