Theories On the Origin of Black

[CrimsonYouth]

Well, after seeing the last chapter, I have been thinking in a possible theory. Maybe Black and Zamas are not as related as we thought.

My theory is that Black is the emissary of a third unknown force and he is working together with Zamas only because they share the same goal of killing humans. The fact that they don't consider friends or allies, but doushi (同志, comrades, same will) it's very suspicious.

But, after killing all humans, I think Black it's going to reveal his own secret agenda and, maybe, the third force is going to be revealed.

[sailorspazz]

1. Zamasu is on track to be come a Kaioushin, which are gods of creation opposite the gods of destruction. This is usually said to imply that they create new planets, but do we know if they can also create living beings?

Yes, according to Toriyama's explanation in Chouzenshuu 1, they create both planets and life.

Thanks for the info. Hmm hmm...so I said before that Black probably had to be comprised at least partially of Gokuu since he knew who Vegeta was, but now we know Zamasu watched part of the Universe 6/7 tournament, so he could've seen Vegeta there (totally unrelated to theories, but GodTube cracks me up I feel like something that dumb-yet-funny must have come from Toriyama's mind). I'm still torn on what I think is the most likely scenario (whether two Zamasus are involved, whether Gokuu's body/soul is involved, or if Black was created from scratch by Zamasu). Because watching his battle on GodTube would explain how Zamasu could know Gokuu's moves and thus make sure Black had the same skill set...but I honestly don't feel I can strongly commit to a single theory at this point! Still too many possibilities

[KingKaash]

It finally makes sense to me why Goku Black has a Potara earring. Gowasu originally gives Zamasu one Potara earring so that he can use the Ring of Time. Since Gowasu has either passed away or been killed in the future, Zamasu ascends to Supreme Kai and is given both Potara earrings. He then either creates/finds Goku Black and then provides him with a Potara earring so that he may use the Ring of Time to carry out his goals.

So in that sense Goku Black is probably not a full-on godly character. By wearing the earring he us allowed to use godly things like the Ring of Time

[GodKaio-Ken]

Godtube was funny but Gowasu needs a newTV. Its 2016 man.


Anyway its becoming more confusing as to who/what Black is. We know he isn't Zamasu at the very least. When he says things like "This Body" it makes you believe it is someone in the body of Goku. If Zamasu didn't create him why would he exist in that form? Odd.

[DainIronfoot]

Godtube was funny but Gowasu needs a newTV. Its 2016 man.


Anyway its becoming more confusing as to who/what Black is. We know he isn't Zamasu at the very least. When he says things like "This Body" it makes you believe it is someone in the body of Goku. If Zamasu didn't create him why would he exist in that form? Odd.

I'm still holding onto the theories that either Black is Zamasu but from another timeline or just created by Zamasu's hatred of Goku.

[JoeCapricorn]

Black could be a creation of Zamasu, or a transmutation of Gowasu. Either way, Gowasu eventually no longer exists.

I don't mean "dead" - I mean more than "dead". If Gowasu were merely killed, would he go anywhere? He already lives in the Other World of Universe 10! Recall Old Kai waking up shortly after 'dying'.

So either he is double dead (either body completely destroyed or erased from existence) or he is a transmutation of Gowasu.

Something definitely happens to Gowasu since that's where those Potara came from - Black and Zamasu each wear one, implying they stole them from Gowasu. They both wear one in order to use the Time Rings.

What remains a mystery is why Zamasu and Black travel to a different timeline. It's possible that they want to be thorough in their extermination of humanity. Perhaps they already accomplished this in one or more of the alternate timelines - it was just when they got to Trunks' timeline someone was able to travel between timelines for assistance.

[TheMikado]

Question on all this? Does Black know Goku on a personal level? Like have his only reasons for specifically targeting Goku other than just having his body? If so he could be an enemy Goku previously defeated.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Question on all this? Does Black know Goku on a personal level? Like have his only reasons for specifically targeting Goku other than just having his body? If so he could be an enemy Goku previously defeated.

Problem is who? Freeza has a different personality so no. Cell? Doesn't seem so. Evil Buu wished into the body of Goku sort of like Uub but different?

[TheMikado]

Question on all this? Does Black know Goku on a personal level? Like have his only reasons for specifically targeting Goku other than just having his body? If so he could be an enemy Goku previously defeated.

Problem is who? Freeza has a different personality so no. Cell? Doesn't seem so. Evil Buu wished into the body of Goku sort of like Uub but different?

It would be hilarious if it's Broly, especially knowing that the sadistic personality does fit him. Not saying fits possible but if he were canon he would be the likeliest character.

[marcbret87]

Question on all this? Does Black know Goku on a personal level? Like have his only reasons for specifically targeting Goku other than just having his body? If so he could be an enemy Goku previously defeated.

Problem is who? Freeza has a different personality so no. Cell? Doesn't seem so. Evil Buu wished into the body of Goku sort of like Uub but different?

It would be hilarious if it's Broly, especially knowing that the sadistic personality does fit him. Not saying fits possible but if he were canon he would be the likeliest character.

It does feel like whoever Black is has some degree of familiarity with Goku and the rest, but Broly? Come on, Black says things like: "My beauty blablabla". Sure, Black is also sadistic, but that's about all they share, Broly is brutal, not methodical. Honestly, I think it feels much more like Cell than Broly, even though I would not bet on any of them.

Black could be a creation of Zamasu, or a transmutation of Gowasu. Either way, Gowasu eventually no longer exists.

I don't mean "dead" - I mean more than "dead". If Gowasu were merely killed, would he go anywhere? He already lives in the Other World of Universe 10! Recall Old Kai waking up shortly after 'dying'.

So either he is double dead (either body completely destroyed or erased from existence) or he is a transmutation of Gowasu.

Something definitely happens to Gowasu since that's where those Potara came from - Black and Zamasu each wear one, implying they stole them from Gowasu. They both wear one in order to use the Time Rings.

What remains a mystery is why Zamasu and Black travel to a different timeline. It's possible that they want to be thorough in their extermination of humanity. Perhaps they already accomplished this in one or more of the alternate timelines - it was just when they got to Trunks' timeline someone was able to travel between timelines for assistance.

Yeah, something must happen to Gowasu, most likely he'll be killed but we are likely to know for sure in the next episode.

Godtube was funny but Gowasu needs a newTV. Its 2016 man.
Anyway its becoming more confusing as to who/what Black is. We know he isn't Zamasu at the very least. When he says things like "This Body" it makes you believe it is someone in the body of Goku. If Zamasu didn't create him why would he exist in that form? Odd.

Yeah, from the dialog it seems pretty clear that they are hinting towards somebody inhabiting Goku's body.

[MCDaveG]

I would like if Black won't be Zamasu's creation, but his peer. We've had this formula already, Dr. Gero -> Androids, Cell, Babidi -> Majin Buu.
I would love if Black will be a ''partner in crime''. Some god, or rather Demon. I would love to see some Makaishin finally!

Super is de facto the Battle of Gods series. Goku attaining the god power, battling God of Destruction, excluding Freeza they later participate in Tournament between the two Gods of Destruction and now, the battle evil Kaio and Goku Black with god powers.
Makaishin as the opposite of Kaioshin will make sense to appear finally with a good reason.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Question on all this? Does Black know Goku on a personal level? Like have his only reasons for specifically targeting Goku other than just having his body? If so he could be an enemy Goku previously defeated.

Problem is who? Freeza has a different personality so no. Cell? Doesn't seem so. Evil Buu wished into the body of Goku sort of like Uub but different?

It would be hilarious if it's Broly, especially knowing that the sadistic personality does fit him. Not saying fits possible but if he were canon he would be the likeliest character.

Ha if we are going non canon....how about Janemba? Literal evil incarnated into the body of Goku lol

[TheMikado]

It really doesn't matter to me either way, I just can't imagine who else it would be other than non canon characters. Unless we are going with cell. I don't by the whole other timeline Zamasu because why would one Zamasu allow himself to be the patsy of himself where he can't get the kill and stuck in Gokus body?

Like who else could have a connection to Goku and have a desire to defeat him? Plus this personality doesnt match Cell at all. I guess they could make him Android 17......

[Boo Machine]

I've been kicking a theory around in my head that Zamasu splits from his evil self ,like Kami did with piccolo, and that evil becomes Black. But the "good" Zamasu still wants to kill all mortals because he is so delusional that he truly believes he is in the right thus his actions are just.

But then I think if he really believes that, then there would be no reason to split. Then I'm back to fumbling in the dark because I have no clue who else black could be.

I can't imagine it's anyone we're familiar with. It has to be an entire new character that just has a connection to goku/Saiyans?

God, I enjoy the mystery but I'm kind of hoping they throw us a bone in the next episode.

[vilker]

I think there are 3 differents Zamasus:


Zamasu 1 (Present): Main timeline. Fight Goku on his planet. He has not asked yet desire to Super Shenron.

Zamasu 2 (Inmortal): From an alternative timeline where Trunks never traveled to warn of the arrival of Black. This Zamasu didn't meet Goku in his planet because Goku didn't go with Bills. Instead itself apparently happened the same end of this episode: Gowasu saw on Godtube fighting Goku vs Hit and Zamasu learned about the super dragon balls. This Zamasu would ask the super shenron for an immortal body and would have traveled to the Trunks timeline with the green ring. Zamasu meets Goku watching it on Godtube and probably went to see him in person.

Zamasu 3 (Black): From Trunks timeline. This Zamasu never met Goku because He died of heart disease, but met Zamasu 2 who told him about the Saiyan and Super Dragon balls. So they go to find the super balls and this Zamasu ask to super Shenron for the Goku's body. That's the reason why we see that Black would have some respect but doesn't know about Goku, He learn bit by bit his techniques and strength. He has the silver ring from his timeline, if He was from another timeline should have the green ring.


In addition perhaps Zamasu 2 did not ask Goku's body because he was alive in that timeline and so had to go to timeline 3 where Goku was died to ask for his body (It would have been funny Zamasu watch the entire tournament and thought that Monaka was the most powerful, beating Hit easily and Zamasu should ask the Monaka body xD).

Now would left to know what is the desire asked by Zamasu 1 to Super Shenron, I bet it will be different than the other Zamasus to differentiate the 3 Zamasus. And maybe this Zamasu also will travel to the Trunks timeline.

Whenever Goku has clashed forces with any Zamasu, He noticed in his energy something different, this would have an explanation like the tea. Zamasu has lived different experiences in the 3 timelines and therefore has different feelings against Goku:
-The First Zamasu has an irrational hatred towards humans but especially for the humiliation suffered by Goku. Let's say this would be the most evil Zamasu.
-The Second Zamasu hates humans and Goku to attain the level of Gods and associate with them, but not as much hatred as the first one.
-The Third Zamasu only hates humans and Goku as a human's, but wants an ideal world like the other ones (shared goals).

[DragonBallFoodie]

Looking at all the clues ...

A lot of attention is paid to the Time Ring on Goku Black. These can only be used by the Supreme Kais.

Someone mentioned that if the Supreme Kai of a Universe dies, so shall the God of Destruction. The two are connected.

Super Saiyan Rose is named not only for its pinkish color, but is the name of a wine. It's the gods of destruction that are named after alchoholic beverages (Beerus, Chanpa, Whis, Vados - beer, champagne, whiskey, calvados).


So, my guess is that Black Goku is a version of Goku that accepted the job of being a God of Destruction. Our Goku had received this offer before, but had declined.

[GodKaio-Ken]

I have a thought kicking around in my head that might cure some of the time travel paradox problems we see.

What if Black and Zamasu literally have nothing to do with each other until fairly recently? Imagine this unfolding:

1) Black comes to Trunks timeline. Zamasu is not involved at all yet.

2) Future Trunks travels back in time and such and everything unfolds the same as we saw.

3) Goku meets Zamasu and everything happens as we have seen.

4) Zamasu finds out they are after this "Black" guy they are after.

5) Zamasu wishes for immortality and his (near) future self in the regular timeline travels to meet this guy with allegedly the same ki.

In this scenario you have two separate villains independent of one another who happen to team up for a common goal. The only thing I can't explain with this idea is why they would have similar Ki.

[dragonballhero]

After seeing the newest episode, I'm starting to think Zamasu probably created Goku Black. The reason I say this is because I saw the NEP, and from the looks of it, Zamasu wishes to Super Shenron to give immortality and maybe create a clone of Goku who despises any and all mortals. Also, look at "Goku" near the end of that NEP. It doesn't seems to be our Goku, does it? Something seems...off about him when we see him at the end of the preview. I imagine Zamasu instilled in him the mindset that any and all mortals are evil beings who must be purged. Well, this alongside the motivation to become the strongest in all 12 universes?

I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense/seems somewhat "too simple" of an explanation as to who Black is. But the way "Goku" looked at the end of that preview made me wonder if the next ep delves into how Black came to be.

[Chuquita]

I rewatched the next episode preview and I'm curious about where Gokû could be standing that would have lighting like that. It looks very inside his own head sort of thing.

[DainIronfoot]

Wow 2 friends of mine brought up some wacky theories. Both I think aren't true at all but I love how much speculation everyone has about who Black really is haha. The first friend thinks that Black is actually Frost who ran into Zamasu and are now working together. The other friend had a crazier theory in which he thinks that Black is Zamasu and that the Zamasu we saw in Trunks timeline is actually Gowasu. He thinks the two have switched bodies to confuse others. Now granted my 2nd friend hasn't seen episode 57 yet, he saw 56 which ended with Zamasu appearing only. I didn't want to spoil it for him though haha.


Like I said though it's amazing how many different types of ideas everyone has for who Black is.