Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[SaiyanGod117]

Just feels like it. We've started getting answers and a brunt of them will be answered next week it seems with the peak of present Zamasu's development, Beerus & Whis saying they have an idea who Black is. Plus the fact that Goku said he's itching to go back to the future. Unless they faff around in the present again and do some extra training or whatever I can see this arc wrapping up in the near future.

Right now I can't see how they could strech this out that much longer without unnecessary padding.

Even if they find out the origin of Black tons of stuff can still happen Zamasu mentioned something about a utopia last episode, and there's still a lot of stuff we don't know about. Like what happened Gowasu and why is Zamasu is in Universe 7, and there could be some unexpected plot twist to make the arc even longer.

All that can easily be waved in one sentence like the Beerus being dead in the future timeline. Sure an unexpected twist will make it longer but I feel like this arc doesn't need it. Toriyama talked about how the battle will involve Beerus, Kioshin and Omniking. Beerus and Kioshin get involved next episode we know that, unless Toriyama talking about the bit where Omniking wanted a friend then we should expect him soon too.
I just don't want them to unnecessarily drag this arc out we already had a lull in the arc when Black got transported back we really don't need something similar happening when it takes 5 episodes for things to progress and get interesting. If this arc has 4-5 episodes left that would be perfect.

I disagree, if this arc produces 10 more episodes than ends that would be perfect, as long as everything meshes well and the pacing is good. But let's end this discussion so we don't derail this thread anymore then we already have.

[A Man named RJ]

Even shida didn't use loose animation to make goku spin.

Yes, but shida also had 7 weeks to work on this very simplified sequence.

Higashide, Shida and the guys who worked in trunks special, all of them reinforces the idea that loose animation doesn't fit in dragon ball, that thing tate did in frieza fight was completely out of place

Umm how? They both clearly use different styles, that doesn't make one superior to the other. Did we forget that cuts like this from Tate exist?
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

That's like saying that because This exists
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]
That this doesnt belong in the series, and "is completely out of place"
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]


Likewise "because this exists
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

This shouldnt and is out of place
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

That's a ridiculous argument to make. They're both extremely great cuts. one being loose doesnt make it less belonging or "not dragon ball" Loose animation isnt just some inherently bad thing, like you keep trying to make it. Tate's Freeza fight was fine. It had a great combination of both action, and character acting, I've yet to see Shida pull that off in the same cut (not sequence, the same CUT). What did you just forget that some of shonen anime's most memorable moments happen to be offmodel, and loose?
https://youtu.be/19PYNhAcQso?t=64

And if you're familiar with their other work, you'd see they work really well when juxtaposed off eachother

[Cipher]

I don't think this is better than this

Sure, but that's super reductive?

It's not such a clear win for Shida either. Some of Tate's work on Super has been rougher than it should be with the insane schedules, but I like that looser style. It visually communicates the potential for fluid and interesting movement even when it's still. That's a powerful effect.

[Derf]

Haha so now people are downgrading Tate's great work just because Shida is also really good? Man, I'm getting old for forums, I guess. This is too much.

I'm not "downgrading" Tate's work. Tate's work is technically fantastic. I've just never been a fan of Tate's work in the context of consistency with the Dragon Ball franchise, since the very beginning of Dragon Ball Super. I'm relatively new to these forums, so I had yet to express that here. Opinions, man!

[cuartas]

And again pointing me out things from another anime.
Can you please show me a single example of loose animation that worked out well in DBZ, DB GT or even DB? pleaseeeee (x10).
Yeah, I know, this style appeared right after dragon ball series, but there has to be something similar to prove your point, right? examples of other animes doesn't prove me anything, we're talking about dragon ball, not the other 1000's of animes out there.
I don't even recall seeing somehting similar to this style in all my years watching the series, so the thing is, do you just wanna taste all the existent animation styles in DBS to the point it's not recognizable? or it's just an attempt to defend anything tate is doing at any cost? I can say then ep 5 was a new kind of animation making it's debut to Super?

PS: I forgot to add higashide to the party

[FortuneSSJ]

-Episode 57-

Behold, Shida The Greatest!

I knew he wouldn't disappoint. It is my favourite piece of animation from DBS so far.
His cut was bigger than I thought. Since he said it was a small cut, i took his word too serious.

Those were the most delicious 25 seconds ever. I've been waiting for his return for 3 years and it was 100% worth.
I feel like a kid that received a present he wanted for so long. Bravo! Bravo!

More "small" cuts like this Shida, please!

But not only him, the entire staff did a great job. The entire fight sequence was mind blowing and the best of Super so far.
Props to everyone!

A little detail I noticed was the impact scenes. Not sure if it was the sound effect or the camera shakes, maybe both, but everytime someone hit the ground, the impact was always well delivered and I could feel it.

Don't know what Karasawa did in this episode, but it's been always a pleasure to see his episodes for some time now. Brillant episode!

Good news! Shida just tweeted that he's scheduled to work on Super again in the future.

少し間を空けてまた参加する予定です(^^)
It's planned for me to participate again after a little while (^^)

OMG!!
I already know it will be epic, now just make it longer! This is his debt for not doing something for us in the last 3 years.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

I completely agree. It has to do with consistency. There's no doubt that Tate is an incredibly talented animator, but his animation style is simply inconsistent with what we historically expect to see out of Dragon Ball. Even in Super, his cuts distract and stick out like a sore thumb. Shida's cut this week is exactly what good animation should look like in modern Dragon Ball.

Another good example of quality Dragon Ball animation that's consistent with the franchise's art direction that immediately comes to mind is Higashide's Future Trunks vs Black in Episode 48, though that cut is obviously less ambitious.

What we historically have always been getting from the (anime) franchise were OK-Average animation, why can´t we expect better with the likes of Tate and Shida?

EDIT:

And again pointing me out things from another anime.
Can you please show me a single example of loose animation that worked out well in DBZ, DB GT or even DB? pleaseeeee (x10).
Yeah, I know, this style appeared right after dragon ball series, but there has to be something similar to prove your point, right? examples of other animes doesn't prove me anything, we're talking about dragon ball, not the other 1000's of animes out there.
I don't even recall seeing somehting similar to this style in all my years watching the series, so the thing is, do you just wanna taste all the existent animation styles in DBS to the point it's not recognizable? or it's just an attempt to defend anything tate is doing at any cost? I can say then ep 5 was a new kind of animation making it's debut to Super?

PS: I forgot to add higashide to the party

First, could you provide an explanation of what "work out well in DB[insert letters]" means in the first place?

[Anime Kitten]

This I think.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

That's the one! Thanks once again!

[Cipher]

I don't even recall seeing somehting similar to this style in all my years watching the series, so the thing is, do you just wanna taste all the existent animation styles in DBS to the point it's not recognizable? or it's just an attempt to defend anything tate is doing at any cost? I can say then ep 5 was a new kind of animation making it's debut to Super?

If you're acknowledging the style wasn't in wide usage during the series' original run, what difference does it make that we never see a similar approach before Super? Like, what are you even asking, other than that someone backs you up on disliking Tate?

Dragon Ball changed styles constantly through its lifetime. Not only in terms of its underlying designs, but animation styles. Tate's is one of the good ones. It's also identifiably post-2000. So what?

Tate's work not being recognizable is seriously exaggerated as well. It looks like Dragon Ball with a looser, more fluid approach. There's nothing more off-model about his characters than anything we ever got out of latter-day Uchiyama or Ebisawa, except his stuff actually moves and looks good.

[cuartas]

First, could you provide an explanation of what "work out well in DB[insert letters]" means in the first place?

welp, this one in OP for example https://sakuga.yshi.org/data/9f4ebf72a9 ... 30eb99.mp4
I've never seen this before BOG movie (and ep13) and I don't see anyone on internet complaining but praising it, I think this one worked out well on dragon ball.

I always thought that frieza scene was product of lack of time, more than something tate wanted to do, not even his works on dbz have something similar

[Hit!!]

Haha so now people are downgrading Tate's great work just because Shida is also really good? Man, I'm getting old for forums, I guess. This is too much.

I know right?? Tate has made incredible cuts with much less time than Shida did, i think he deserves his respect.

[Lord Beerus]

Good news! Shida just tweeted that he's scheduled to work on Super again in the future.

少し間を空けてまた参加する予定です(^^)
It's planned for me to participate again after a little while (^^)

That's fantastic news!

This may also be the biggest indication that the schedule for the show has gotten much better, or at least has become somewhat workable, considering how slow of an animator Shida is and how much time he needs to do a cut.

[A Man named RJ]

And again pointing me out things from another anime.
Can you please show me a single example of loose animation that worked out well in DBZ, DB GT or even DB? pleaseeeee (x10).

ANNNNNNNNND STOP!

RIght off the bat, the question you're asking me is a Dumb one. A fallicuious question that cannot be answered In order to justify some form of cognitive bias you have going for you - because such animation doesnt really exist. You jump the gun by ignoring Super's well-done cuts that use this looseness to point to an era in Toei's history when they were doing things exactly by the book and afraid to experiment with different styles. If you havent noticed by now, it's that old-fashioned thinking that has destroyed DBS's character sheets, and animation. Know what the best anime that came out in recent years did? they redefined themselves. They struck an awesome middleground between old methods and new. Saying a certain style cant work now because an older version of the show didnt have it, is a BAD argument. This says nothing of the validity of the method used now

Just because something wasnt used fully in another era before, DOESNT MEAN IT CAN'T WORK!

Yeah, I know, this style appeared right after dragon ball series, but there has to be something similar to prove your point, right? examples of other animes doesn't prove me anything

So you're asking me to prove the impossible while fully aware that it's impossible? You ask this of me by narrowing down the criteria to be too specific to possibly answer the question You're arguing by contradicting yourself!? And the final nail on the coffin here, is that you're saying "well it wasnt there before, so it must suck"

WHAT KIND OF LOGIC IS THAT!?

Now then let me ask YOU a question:
If it works well for other shows, both of that time, and now, because the respective studios weren't afraid to experiment, why wouldn't it work for Super? Why are you discounting the merits of other shows? Toei animation at the time was very "By the Numbers" they didn't like experimentation, they didn't like being super loose, they didn't like working with different styles of animation. But why is it a bad thing that they DARE to broaden their horizons? You are telling me that art should stifle itself to be exactly like it was before - Do you seriously not understand why this is such a horrible case to make?

Your entire argument is literally "I wont recognize it as dragon ball anymore"
That's childish!
That's ridiculous!

One of the biggest criticisms of Dragon Ball of the past nowadays is that the animation was bad. It was the same 4 frames on repeat, screaming for 20 minutes to fill the time, and used VERY minimalistic animation, to cut down on costs. This isnt an exaggeration either, the show on the whole looked bad. It had some standout moments - sure but it was really non-stop mediocrity.

Basically you're telling me that it doesn't work in Dragon Ball Super "because dey didnt do it in da 80's and 90's!". You're telling me you wouldnt want a scene like this to grace Dragon ball?

or this?

[spoiler]

or this

[/spoiler]

Well you must be, because your very logic dictates:

Can you please show me a single example of [this style of] animation that worked out well in DBZ, DB GT or even DB? pleaseeeee (x10).

Guess what - THERE ISNT ONE!

Just because YOU specifically dont like something, does not inherently make it bad or unfit for something.

Perhaps the reason I'm referencing other shows out nowadays is because they're doing something right that Dragon Ball Lacks, both now and in the past. Forget Progressive styles of animation that create a visual spectacle for any animators, and viewers alike! These other shows are breaking boundries and you want all that nixed so it can look as limited and mediocre as it did in the 90's.

This isnt some gross exaggeration of your claims either. You're saying you dont want newer styles and methods to grace super because it wasn't used in a Time where a studio was too afraid to break boundries Some of these methods of animation are evolutions, and growth for the industry. You want that Gone so everything can look clean and on model all the time. Heaven forbid it looks like a standout show of the season.

If that's your meter of standards then I'm glad Tate exists to throw that crap out the window!

[Derf]

What we historically have always been getting from the (anime) franchise were OK-Average animation, why can´t we expect better with the likes of Tate and Shida?

You misunderstood my point. It's not about the quality of the animation, it's about the way it's animated. Loose vs. rigid, blurs vs. clarity, etc. Just my opinion, of course, but I find both Tate and Shida to be equally as talented in their respective styles. Shida's simply respects, stylistically, the way Dragon Ball has historically been animated more than modern Tate's does.

Again, all just my opinion! I mean no harm.

[nite_jay]

And again pointing me out things from another anime.
Can you please show me a single example of loose animation that worked out well in DBZ, DB GT or even DB? pleaseeeee (x10).
Yeah, I know, this style appeared right after dragon ball series, but there has to be something similar to prove your point, right? examples of other animes doesn't prove me anything, we're talking about dragon ball, not the other 1000's of animes out there.
I don't even recall seeing somehting similar to this style in all my years watching the series, so the thing is, do you just wanna taste all the existent animation styles in DBS to the point it's not recognizable? or it's just an attempt to defend anything tate is doing at any cost? I can say then ep 5 was a new kind of animation making it's debut to Super?

PS: I forgot to add higashide to the party

Episode of Bardock had a pretty loose style, and it looked great.

[Alee9977]

First, could you provide an explanation of what "work out well in DB[insert letters]" means in the first place?

welp, this one in OP for example https://sakuga.yshi.org/data/9f4ebf72a9 ... 30eb99.mp4
I've never seen this before BOG movie (and ep13) and I don't see anyone on internet complaining but praising it, I think this one worked out well on dragon ball.

I always thought that frieza scene was product of lack of time, more than something tate wanted to do, not even his works on dbz have something similar

Well, you won't find anything like that in original DB coming from Tate because he didn't do any of that until DB finished and he started working in OP. That scene in RoF arc is really fluid and the characters are well drawn, it's true that it lacks of details and there is one strange face coming from Freeza but after that there is no problems and it's one of the best cuts in DBS although it was made in the worst arc of DBS.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I am really glad Sumitomo didn't ruin Shida's cut. Can you imagine if something like that cheesy Goku arrival music played?

[Anime Kitten]

I am really glad Sumitomo didn't ruin Shida's cut. Can you imagine if something like that cheesy Goku arrival music played?

That track is awesome you shut up.

[kinisking]

I am really glad Sumitomo didn't ruin Shida's cut. Can you imagine if something like that cheesy Goku arrival music played?

He's been great this arc.

[Bansho64]

I am really glad Sumitomo didn't ruin Shida's cut. Can you imagine if something like that cheesy Goku arrival music played?

Please stop I'm laughing just thinking about it. But I know an even worse song by him that could be placed in that cut. Now, just let that settle into ya mind for a bit