You think some fans are destroying the Dragonball Community??

[Michie]

"Everything that is not like Z isnt as Good as Z.oh NOW its like Z, now its good" - guys getting tired of it.Super has a totaly different focus on Story then Z

If an episode is more storytelling/comedy than action some will complaining it is to childish or has less action...

I am not trying to be mean and it's great that you like Super.... But isn't this your second or third topic with the same premise?

Not liking something and expressing that is hardly the same as destroying the community.

[TheGreatness25]

Well the fans are the community and come in all shapes and sizes so to speak. Just because some of them have opinions that clash with others doesn't mean that the community is being "destroyed." If everyone was like-minded, it would be pretty damn boring.

[SaiyanZ]

Big franchises will always have terrible fans. Look at the Batman and Star Wars fandoms.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Big franchises will always have terrible fans. Look at the Batman and Star Wars fandoms.

To be fair, Dragon Ball's fandom is far worse than both of these.

Well... the fandom outside of this website, anyway.

[precita]

kazenshuu doesn't even represent most of the english speaking Dragonball community anyway. Dragonball fans are scattered all throughout other fansites, anime sites, youtube, social media sites, etc.

Not to mention the Dragonball fans who aren't part of any online community at all or who have retired from the series.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Big franchises will always have terrible fans. Look at the Batman and Star Wars fandoms.

To be fair, Dragon Ball's fandom is far worse than both of these.

Well... the fandom outside of this website, anyway.

What, no way it is, death threats sent to a reviewer who gave TDKR a bad review got Rotten Tomatoes comment sections shut down. Stuckmann's BvS rewrite evolved from friendly meme-ish type banter to flat out threats such as raping his wife, yes his rewrite was pretty bad but he did not deserve that.

Dragon Ball fandom is quite fluff in comparisons.

[Ringworm128]

To be honest I can't say, I've pretty much paid no attention to the fandom in the last few years. I just have fun watching, reading, listening to and learning DB and posting here. To me this forum is "the fandom".

What I can say is that I've been online talking about DB since 09. 7 years, thats itching close to a decade and it was all the same back then. If it was going to " be destroyed " it would have happened already. Heck, ask the older members; they'll tell you it's been like this since the 90's.

[VegettoEX]

Heck, ask the older members; they'll tell you it's been like this since the 90's.

In general, I agree with this. Any time someone talks about the "good ol' days" or the "better times" of either this specific forum or another one... I pretty much think they're living in a dream world. It's selective memory. You don't remember the trivial details, the ins-and-outs, the everyday stuff that happened. You remember a few specific highlights and use that to color the entire timespan.

That being said, I do think we're hitting a cultural crossroads with strength debates, and I don't like where I see it heading. I monologued about it for (likely) way too long in the latest podcast episode. In short, I've never seen the amount of vitriol spread the name of a specific subject matter before (and I was here on the frontlines for 1999), I've never seen people define themselves by such a specific subject matter before, and I think it may destroy any chance the fandom has of welcoming newer fans to the fold...

... and without newer fans, you get stuck in a perpetual period of stunted sameness. That's a bad thing.

[EXBadguy]

Yooo, that is definitely me!

You won't find that in the Bleach or Naruto Fandom where people followed the story weekly just to poop on it.

Nah, it's like that with Super too. Even if the original Z or Kai was airing now, people would've shitted on some parts on the story, mostly the Buu saga, and maybe sometimes Cell if you're disappointed about the adventure and cheery-ness being thin.

"Everything that is not like Z isnt as Good as Z.oh NOW its like Z, now its good" - guys getting tired of it.Super has a totaly different focus on Story then Z

And as for you, TC, do remember it's their right to their opinion, so if you don't like it, block 'em or stay away from the interwebz, cuz you'll always find people like that.

[Cipher]

That being said, I do think we're hitting a cultural crossroads with strength debates, and I don't like where I see it heading. I monologued about it for (likely) way too long in the latest podcast episode. In short, I've never seen the amount of vitriol spread the name of a specific subject matter before (and I was here on the frontlines for 1999), I've never seen people define themselves by such a specific subject matter before, and I think it may destroy any chance the fandom has of welcoming newer fans to the fold...

... and without newer fans, you get stuck in a perpetual period of stunted sameness. That's a bad thing.

Is it really worse than it's ever been? At least as far as calling it a "cultural crossroads"?

No doubt its ability to interfere with peoples' enjoyment of the series has been highlighted by Super, but isn't that just the result of a new series airing weekly? People have been hep to use strength debates to dog-pile on GT for years -- forget trying to talk about anything else it did or didn't do as a show.

[VegettoEX]

I think it is in fact worse than it's ever been, yes.

Does it matter if it's a result of Super airing weekly? That's to say: does it matter what the cause is if the effect is still so bad? I guess the argument there is that: when Super is over, won't it naturally die down?

I don't think it will. I've watched it increase and increase over the years, and while it's certainly at its height right now, because of the impact it's made on those fans — and by extension, them acting as if this is what DEFINES BEING A FAN to new folks — I don't think there's any turning back.

That's my issue. I think it's been defined as the new norm, and that terrifies me.

(And to be clear, my concern isn't the subject matter, but the way it's discussed.)

[ABED]

I don't know if the DB online community is getting any worse as much as internet discourse in general is awful.

[Cipher]

I guess the argument there is that: when Super is over, won't it naturally die down?

That was my suggestions, yes.

I suppose that's coming from a place of acknowledging that Super offers the perfect storm of both playing faster and looser with strength than the series (read: Toriyama) used to, and having the misfortune of airing weekly in a post-internet age. The way power debates encroach on all things Super feels extremely familiar to me to the way people have always talked about the equally fast and loose GT. But, while strength debates still pop up at uninvited moments during discussions about that series, they hardly feel like a defining element of the fandom. Mostly because the fandom isn't enthralled by GT as it currently is Super. But I think those attitudes have always been prevalent when discussing portions of the series people feel invite them.

I don't think it will. I've watched it increase and increase over the years, and while it's certainly at its height right now, because of the impact it's made on those fans — and by extension, them acting as if this is what DEFINES BEING A FAN to new folks — I don't think there's any turning back.

I don't want to diminish the shittiness of in-universe strength debates eclipsing other conversations, but I don't think there's much to worry about in terms of it affecting new fans. Or at least I hope not, any more than it ever has. I remember entering the fandom when online debates about late Boo arc and GT power comparisons were regular features of discussion no matter where online you turned, and still managed to never care about them. Maybe I'm not seeing what you see. I've been pretty cloistered at Daizex/Kanzenshuu for the last several years of Dragon Ball anything, so maybe it's worse elsewhere.

I'm guessing (hoping), that those who enter the fandom on the other side of Super and its more flexible approach might be even more preconditioned to enjoy the series beyond its capacity to let people play fantasy football with its characters.

I'm also hoping they'll be able to see what an unfortunately neutered product Super is, but still.

[ABED]

I don't mind flexibility with battle powers to an extent, but there are egregious errors in logic, such as when Piccolo can't take down someone whose power is boasted as being around the same as Zarbon and Dodoria's. Otherwise, I don't care that much about things like how high Goku's power level was when he got on Namek and if he uses Kaio-ken, that means this mathematically. Now I find that tedious, but I understand why many people want logical consistency and rigid, absolute rules. It's like any rules or construct for a fictional world, I just think the issue is when it devolves into the written equivalent to a shouting match over something trivial.

I'm not sure I hold the same fear (for lack of a better word) that Mike has regarding DB being able to pick up new fans.

[Cipher]

I don't mind flexibility with battle powers to an extent, but there are egregious errors in logic, such as when Piccolo can't take down someone whose power is boasted as being around the same as Zarbon and Dodoria's.

Now I'm rethinking my entire post above, because this kind of thing ruining someone's enjoyment of Resurrection "F" is ludicrous to me, and I do fear it being presented as an Important Issue in discussions with new fans.

[ABED]

I don't mind flexibility with battle powers to an extent, but there are egregious errors in logic, such as when Piccolo can't take down someone whose power is boasted as being around the same as Zarbon and Dodoria's.

Now I'm rethinking my entire post above, because this kind of thing ruining someone's enjoyment of Resurrection "F" is ludicrous to me, and I do fear it being presented as an Important Issue in discussions with new fans.

I don't think it's ludicrous because it ruins my immersion. When the writers make such a ludicrous error in judgment in order to facilitate the story, it's the same as if characterization was changed just to facilitate the plot. This isn't a case of not remembering the minutia of a long running series. Serious continuity errors bug me and I don't think it's being fussy.

[omaro34]

I don't mind flexibility with battle powers to an extent, but there are egregious errors in logic, such as when Piccolo can't take down someone whose power is boasted as being around the same as Zarbon and Dodoria's.

This absolutely baffled me for the longest time. I mean someone with a battle power of Zarbon or Dodoria should be a fly to Piccolo especially considering he has Nail and Kami fused with him. Don't tell me battling those weak Freeza soldiers had him tired either, that would be a terrible excuse. Hell, Piccolo when he first arrived on Namek without fusing with Nail yet was stronger than Zarbon or Dodoria. Its such an error in logic if indeed the translation was legit that people who are casual fans would know better, let alone writers.

To this day I think it could have been an error in translation, I refuse to believe it was anything to the contrary, out of respect for the writers.

[VegettoEX]

You folks are highlighting the point I addressed in my podcast: no-one can ever have a quasi-academic discussion about the concept, because it immediately devolves down into debating the minutia of statements. It becomes pedantic. It becomes about proving something. There's always a stubbornness. There's always disbelief in the non-conformity, because _________.

I don't like this, I don't want to be involved in it, and I don't want it to become the culture of discourse for this franchise.

[ABED]

You folks are highlighting the point I addressed in my podcast: no-one can ever have a quasi-academic discussion about the concept, because it immediately devolves down into debating the minutia of statements. It becomes pedantic. It becomes about proving something. There's always a stubbornness. There's always disbelief in the non-conformity, because _________.

I don't like this, I don't want to be involved in it, and I don't want it to become the culture of discourse for this franchise.

I don't see that as the problem. People are always going to debate about minutia. This isn't anything new or particular to online fandoms. And that mini debate doesn't prove much of anything. I think Cipher and I can see the forest from the trees on this topic. If the online community is destroyed it won't be because of WHAT is being discussed, it's HOW it's being discussed.

[omaro34]

I think it is in fact worse than it's ever been, yes.

Does it matter if it's a result of Super airing weekly? That's to say: does it matter what the cause is if the effect is still so bad? I guess the argument there is that: when Super is over, won't it naturally die down?

I don't think it will. I've watched it increase and increase over the years, and while it's certainly at its height right now, because of the impact it's made on those fans — and by extension, them acting as if this is what DEFINES BEING A FAN to new folks — I don't think there's any turning back.

That's my issue. I think it's been defined as the new norm, and that terrifies me.

(And to be clear, my concern isn't the subject matter, but the way it's discussed.)

When you say that the fanbase is worse now than its ever been, a lot of it has to do with the evolution of the internet and social media. When you couple that into consideration along with Super currently at its peak, you will get a plethora of individuals with the intent to troll.

I would bet that if the internet and social media was the way it is now back when Dragonball Z was at its peak in the late 90's & early 2000's with Funimation, the fanbase would have appeared to be even worse than it is now.