"Majin" = "Demon God"?

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:17 pm

The more I look into Japanese, the more confused I get...

So "魔神" is the Kanji for "Majin", whereas the "Jin" that is both a suffix in Saiyajin and part of the word "Jinzoningen" is written as "人." How does one tell the difference in spoken Japanese (before, I thought the "Jin" in "Majin" stood for man, as in "Demon Man")?

-Corey

Bardock the Mexican · Post by **Bardock the Mexican** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:01 pm

From a literal perspective then yes, it could come to mean demon god. However, the more likely translation would have to translate the second character as "spirt" more than "God".
Edit: This two character word has several meanings while I used the more literal and story contextual based one. The other one is a reference to a mago or a wizard (mago is Spanish for a wizard or bruja for witch) in Japanese.

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:10 pm

before, I thought the "Jin" in "Majin" stood for man, as in "Demon Man"

Actually, this is the case in Dragon Ball. It's 魔人 and not 魔神. I think the latter is pronounced mashin though (as used for the Mashin Eiyuuden Wataru series).

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:14 pm

Ash wrote:Actually, this is the case in Dragon Ball. It's 魔人 and not 魔神. I think the latter is pronounced mashin though (as used for the Mashin Eiyuuden Wataru series).

Ah, you're right. Now I feel kinda dumb ;p

-Corey

KinoFourpaws · Post by **KinoFourpaws** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:24 pm

Ash wrote:Actually, this is the case in Dragon Ball. It's 魔人 and not 魔神. I think the latter is pronounced mashin though (as used for the Mashin Eiyuuden Wataru series).

Or as used for "Kaioushin," maybe? o.O

Haha, wh00t. For no reason at all. 8DDD;

Tatsunoboshi Horoko · Post by **Tatsunoboshi Horoko** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:51 pm

http://dict.regex.info/cgi-bin/j-e/euc/ ... ds&scope=b

The Japanese on reading can be either shin or jin. The usage of it depends completely on the author (or whoever is originally using the word.) However, as stated, 魔人 is used instead of 魔神 (which I have been seen used more as "Mashin" to tell the truth.)

Grandmaster J · Post by **Grandmaster J** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:09 am

And here I always thought "majin" meant "magician" or "wizard".

And then once someone told me it meant "monster".

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:42 am

Interesting what a dictionary will tell you.

I looked it up, and when spelt "魔神," majin is a real word—but translating it "demon god," while still correct, would be to do so very literally. Although you do have the Kanji for kami (god) in there, the word as a whole refers to a devil, evil spirit, or genie.

Which actually makes sense in Boo's case, seeing not only as he is conjured from magic, but also pretty evil, and devilish in nature. Viz's translation of "Djinn" emphasizes this as well...

But as pointed out, the way Toriyama spells it is "魔人," using the -jin suffix. Though this does mean "man" on its own, in this sense it is ascribing the individual to that particular race. (Think of the problems that would come up if Saiyajin was translated "Saiya Man" :P)

Ma on its own means "demon; devil; evil spirit; evil influence."

So basically what you get is "demonic being," or "of an evil spirit race." And yet it's hard to say that this, like most names in Dragon Ball, is not somehow a pun on another word. Considering that Cinderella is where his name comes from, you would think that 魔神, which implies genie, more accurately describes a creature born from magic, and with magic powers.

Though, I suppose it wouldn't make as much sense when applied to Vegeta, Dabura, Spopovich, etc. seeing as none of them are genies and were merely under evil influence. Viz's Djinn makes a tad less sense in that case, but it could simply be seen as a fitting nod toward the original pronunciation.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it's intriguing that there might be a possible connection.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:14 am

Acid_Reign wrote:I looked it up, and when spelt "魔神," majin is a real word—but translating it "demon god," while still correct, would be to do so very literally. Although you do have the Kanji for kami (god) in there, the word as a whole refers to a devil, evil spirit, or genie.

Which actually makes sense in Boo's case, seeing not only as he is conjured from magic, but also pretty evil, and devilish in nature. Viz's translation of "Djinn" emphasizes this as well...

But as pointed out, the way Toriyama spells it is "魔人," using the -jin suffix.

That spelling is often used for "genie" / "djinn" as well.

Google Japan search on "majin" (demon / god) and "mahô no lamp" (magic lamp): 958 hits
Google Japan search on "majin" (demon / man) and "mahô no lamp" (magic lamp): 9,950 hits

So yeah. I don't get why people are so outraged by Viz's choice.

I suppose it wouldn't make as much sense when applied to Vegeta, Dabura, Spopovich, etc. seeing as none of them are genies and were merely under evil influence.

Then again, none of them were called "majin" in the manga, I believe.

Post by **TripleRach** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:26 am

Acid_Reign wrote:So basically what you get is "demonic being," or "of an evil spirit race." And yet it's hard to say that this, like most names in Dragon Ball, is not somehow a pun on another word. Considering that Cinderella is where his name comes from, you would think that 魔神, which implies genie, more accurately describes a creature born from magic, and with magic powers.

Well, I don't know about that. I've always felt that the 魔 in 魔人 refers more to magic than demons. So I think of him as a "being of a magical race" or some such. 魔神 would also kind of imply that he's some sort of spirit or deity, but he's just a creature created by Bibidi's magic.

Olivier Hague wrote:So yeah. I don't get why people are so outraged by Viz's choice.

I don't think people's complaints are necessarily about whether or not 魔人 could be translated as "djinn"; the problem is if it should be translated as "djinn". The average person might see its association with "genie" and think of wish-granting creatures like the one in Aladdin, which is not exactly what Buu is. Meanwhile, more informed people who know about the meaning and history of "djinn" will think of creatures that are even less similar to Buu.

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:36 am

Olivier Hague wrote:That spelling is often used for "genie" / "djinn" as well.

Google Japan search on "majin" (demon / god) and "mahô no lamp" (magic lamp): 958 hits
Google Japan search on "majin" (demon / man) and "mahô no lamp" (magic lamp): 9,950 hits

Really? That's interesting. I was just going by definitions; didn't even think of using Google.

So yeah. I don't get why people are so outraged by Viz's choice.

I'm not outraged in the least. I think it's pretty clever. The only pitfall of the choice is the fact that the Majin insignia is still an "M."

Then again, none of them were called "majin" in the manga, I believe.

But they still had the mark on their foreheads. Even if it wasn't outwardly said, I think it's pretty safe to refer to them as such. And naturally the term could be chosen with a scope beyond that of the manga in mind.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:47 am

TripleRach wrote:Well, I don't know about that. I've always felt that the 魔 in 魔人 refers more to magic than demons. So I think of him as a "being of a magical race" or some such. 魔神 would also kind of imply that he's some sort of spirit or deity, but he's just a creature created by Bibidi's magic.

I'm confused.

If "魔" literally means "demon," how does one derive "magic" from it? I am the Japanese n00b plz to halp ;p

-Corey

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:11 pm

魔 has a lot of 'magical' connotations to it. 魔術 majutsu is magic/sorcery and 魔笛 mateki is the translation for Mozart's Die Zauberflöte / the magic flute.

While 魔 stands for demon (as it comes from the Sanskrit 'mara', who is a demon) it also has those 'otherworldly' connotations. Probably from the 鬼
oni part of the kanji, which has his etymological roots as a deathmask (so contact with spirits and such).

Uuuh yeah. Learning kanji through etymology sure isn't fast, but sometimes you can give useful info to people

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:41 pm

Acid_Reign wrote:The only pitfall of the choice is the fact that the Majin insignia is still an "M."

I don't think it was ever said to be a "majin insignia" (the only "majin" is Boo, in the manga... and Babidi definitely isn't one, right?)... or even an "M", for that matter.

they still had the mark on their foreheads. Even if it wasn't outwardly said, I think it's pretty safe to refer to them as such.

Well, they had a mark on the forehead... And the only being we do know was a majin didn't, so...

Post by **TripleRach** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:24 pm

Yeah, the M is never specifically stated in the series to stand for "Majin". It could stand for 魔法 Mahou or 魔術 Majutsu (both mean "magic"), or maybe even the English word "magic". Personally, I've always thought of it as a branding iron sort of thing, since they've all become the property of Madoushi Babidi (or in Buu's case, a creation of Madoushi Bibidi).

SSJ3raditz · Post by **SSJ3raditz** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:55 pm

I'm Also Sort of a Japanese Noob too but Doesn't "Ma" Means Demon and "Jin" Mean Race?

So Majin=Demon Race

Feel free to Correct me if I'm Wrong.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:05 pm

SSJ3raditz wrote:I'm Also Sort of a Japanese Noob too but Doesn't "Ma" Means Demon and "Jin" Mean Race?

Nope, "jin" means "person".
As for "ma"... Well, see above.

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:07 pm

TripleRach wrote:Yeah, the M is never specifically stated in the series to stand for "Majin". It could stand for 魔法 Mahou or 魔術 Majutsu (both mean "magic"), or maybe even the English word "magic". Personally, I've always thought of it as a branding iron sort of thing, since they've all become the property of Madoushi Babidi (or in Buu's case, a creation of Madoushi Bibidi).

Hmm. I just kind of assumed it stood for Majin; Boo wearing it on his belt rather than on his head because he didn't need to be possessed like the others. But that does make sense. Watching the dub and reading translations I never would have picked up on that.

Is it stated anywhere definitively then, outside the manga? An interview, Dragon Book, or Daizenshuu maybe?

Suupaa Gohan 2 · Post by **Suupaa Gohan 2** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:52 pm

'Majin' could mean a lot of things but the way it's spelled in the Dragonball world it means 'Demon Person'.

Simple as that.

Though I have noticed Viz apparently tried to get away with using the word 'Djinn' in the English Manga...>.>

Not sure if it's connected to trying to make 'Majin Buu' into 'Djinn Boo' or something that sounds similar but has a more understandable English connotation, as I've never actually picked up the English Manga past the Freeza Saga (read the Cell stuff when it was serialized in Jump and the fact that they changed Mr. Satan's name pissed me off to no end, especially as they went as far as to imply his name WAS Mr. Satan but 'Hercule' was some nickname or something stupid like that -_-), but yeah, I know that at least the word 'Djinn' was used to describe Buu...to my knowledge he was never referred to as being a Djinn or anything of the sort in the original, so I'm lead to believe this is just Viz trying to mess with the MaJIN-sounding part of the name.

*shrug*

But it does mean 'Demon Person', pretty simply, without much way to misinterpret that.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:49 pm

Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:'Majin' could mean a lot of things but the way it's spelled in the Dragonball world it means 'Demon Person'.
Simple as that.
Though I have noticed Viz apparently tried to get away with using the word 'Djinn' in the English Manga...>.>

Again, that "majin" word is often used in the "genie" / "djinn" sense, in Japanese. See above.