"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I don't even see the problem with there being possible issues and things not making sense yet, as we don't know everything just yet. All these questions can very well be answered later. Though Whis' original little spiel on time travel was just plain wrong in regards to Trunks as he doesn't cause any problems what so ever, unless Xenoverse counts where too many timelines cause a big problem.

It could very well be like GT did with the Dragon Balls where there were "unforeseen consequences" , and this could lead to the next arc in dealing with such consequence. I would rather prefer something like that then going into something completely new.

That is because Buu wiped out the Kais in U7. Unless a similar massacre happened in U10, it's doubtful that Gawasu is the only Supreme Kai.

U10 is not modelled after U7 remember, there probably will be discrepancies, hell for all we know a G.o.D might not even exist in U10 anyway.

All universes have Gods of Destruction. Just as ever universe has Supreme Kais. Why would U10 only have Gods of Creation.

It was an bit out there example but one that could be true but the original point is just cuz U7 and un-mirrored Universe had several kaioshin doesn't mean U10 has too.

[dbzfan7]

I don't even see the problem with there being possible issues and things not making sense yet, as we don't know everything just yet. All these questions can very well be answered later. Though Whis' original little spiel on time travel was just plain wrong in regards to Trunks as he doesn't cause any problems what so ever, unless Xenoverse counts where too many timelines cause a big problem.

It could very well be like GT did with the Dragon Balls where there were "unforeseen consequences" , and this could lead to the next arc in dealing with such consequence. I would rather prefer something like that then going into something completely new.

Yes it could all very well make sense later. It's not much of a progressing conversation when apparently it already makes sense, and yet it doesn't make sense because we don't know everything. It can't be both ways. It either doesn't make sense yet and will make sense, or it all already makes sense.

[Draconic]

I don't even see the problem with there being possible issues and things not making sense yet, as we don't know everything just yet. All these questions can very well be answered later. Though Whis' original little spiel on time travel was just plain wrong in regards to Trunks as he doesn't cause any problems what so ever, unless Xenoverse counts where too many timelines cause a big problem.

But it caused some problems. The appearence of #19 and #20, the appearence of #16, whose death caused Gohan to turn SSJ2, which lead to Goku and Vegeta achieving that level, which lead to their fight, which lead to Buu's ressurection etc. All events that played out significantly different than in Trunks' timeline, caused exactly by meddling with time be it by Cell or Trunks. The fact that it turned out fine in the end is another point altogether. Whis' explanation just illustrates the butterfly effect, albeit him putting a negative spin on things as a warning of the consequences of time traveling to the past, not necessarily that things HAVE to turn to shit, but that they might as well could, which is why it's forbbiden.

[alakazam^]

He's not allowed to travel through time, he's not a Kaioushin.

Was that a rule? Cause that does explain why he doesn't. Even then they don't really have an issue sending anyone else so they're already breaking the rules as is. Then there's the whole paradox of how this plan could never work in any way, as well wanting to kill Goku, despite practically him having know known way to reach him since neither were aware of time machines.

In episode 49 Whis explains that travelling through time is a sin and that's why Gods are forbidden of doing it, especially to the past (episode 50). Then we find out about Time Rings and that Kaioushins are the only ones allowed to use them (episode 50).

Beers doesn't rule Universe 7, he's just part of the hierarchy. He won't brake the rules himself but if other people want to, that's their problem, since Zen'ou would probably notice if Beers was travelling through time but not some humans. He's also interested in figuring out what's going on, which is why he investigates.

Also, remember that Beers threatened to destroy Bulma because of the time machine even though the present one wasn't who built it so that might be his timeline reasoning.

[dbzfan7]

I don't even see the problem with there being possible issues and things not making sense yet, as we don't know everything just yet. All these questions can very well be answered later. Though Whis' original little spiel on time travel was just plain wrong in regards to Trunks as he doesn't cause any problems what so ever, unless Xenoverse counts where too many timelines cause a big problem.

But it caused some problems. The appearence of #19 and #20, the appearence of #16, whose death caused Gohan to turn SSJ2, which lead to Goku and Vegeta achieving that level, which lead to their fight, which lead to Buu's ressurection etc. All events that played out significantly different than in Trunks' timeline, caused exactly by meddling with time be it by Cell or Trunks. The fact that it turned out fine in the end is another point altogether. Whis' explanation just illustrates the butterfly effect, albeit him putting a negative spin on things as a warning of the consequences of time traveling to the past, not necessarily that things HAVE to turn to shit, but that they might as well could, which is why it's forbbiden.

Yeah you're right I didn't think of it that way. Though that really doesn't fix the entire paradox problem that makes everything outside of stopping the actual future threats pointless, since paradox theory would make a literal never ending time loop.

He's not allowed to travel through time, he's not a Kaioushin.

Was that a rule? Cause that does explain why he doesn't. Even then they don't really have an issue sending anyone else so they're already breaking the rules as is. Then there's the whole paradox of how this plan could never work in any way, as well wanting to kill Goku, despite practically him having know known way to reach him since neither were aware of time machines.

In episode 49 Whis explains that travelling through time is a sin and that's why Gods are forbidden of doing it, especially to the past (episode 50). Then we find out about Time Rings and that Kaioushins are the only ones allowed to use them (episode 50).

Beers doesn't rule Universe 7, he's just part of the hierarchy. He won't brake the rules himself but if other people want to, that's their problem, since Zen'ou would probably notice if Beers was travelling through time but not some humans. He's also interested in figuring out what's going on, which is why he investigates.

Also, remember that Beers threatened to destroy Bulma because of the time machine even though the present one wasn't who built it so that might be his timeline reasoning.

That's a very good point. I'm not sure how Zeno would know, but it's solid that if he's caught, he'd get it worse. Though if they're caught it's not his problem. The problem lies with paradox making affecting the future from the present, impossible as it'd create a never ending cycle.

[ArchedThunder]

I want to see the Universe 10 God of Destruction. It would be cool that it's a different animal and not another cat. Maybe each GOD in each universe can be based on Chinese Zodiacs. I imagine the U10 GOD being a Ox or Goat.

I would still love it if Gowasu's death kills him and then Gowasu is revived at the end of the arc and whenever we get to Zeno's tournament the U10 God of Destruction is super nice to the U7 gang for saving his life.

I don't really see how letting the others go to the future is any less bad then them going. When there's no real danger of future travel when compared to the past. I recall them mentioning they are limited, but not really restricted to going. But I concede they do have some explanation.

Whis shouldn't have a clue if he didn't think it was possible, and if he's aware of that works, there is nothing to say he wouldn't know about paradox theory either. And the whole problem of the plan never working is paradox theory literally makes the plan a waste of time. So it becomes a very stupid plan that can never work. They can't accomplish shit, as it in the end won't affect anything until the future Zamasu and Black are dealt with.

No, it is explicitly said that only Kaioshin can travel through time.

Again, scientists today speculate about the effects of time travel and some are pretty sure of what would happen, and most of them agree that traveling to the past wouldn't be possible anyways. So again, Whis explaining the effects doesn't mean he knew it was possible. The same goes for time paradoxes, and they might not be aware that it is a time paradox and even if Whis thinks it might be a paradox there is no way to know if nipping it in the bud by killing Zamasu before he time travels would or wouldn't fix the problem since any knowledge of time paradoxes is purely speculation.

Yes it could all very well make sense later. It's not much of a progressing conversation when apparently it already makes sense, and yet it doesn't make sense because we don't know everything. It can't be both ways. It either doesn't make sense yet and will make sense, or it all already makes sense.

I'm just saying that you can't say it doesn't make sense because we are missing large parts of the puzzle, we can only guess right now, but nothing we've been presented so far outright makes it not make sense.
Meanwhile you are saying that the time paradox HAS to work one way that that the characters HAVE to know that it is a paradox and how the paradox would work. You are stating your opinion like it's fact, while I'm saying lots of "mights" and "maybes" because we are still missing large pieces of the puzzle. I'm not saying everything makes sense right now, but that it's far too early to say that it doesn't make sense, that's all I'm trying to explain

[Noah]

I want to see the Universe 10 God of Destruction. It would be cool that it's a different animal and not another cat. Maybe each GOD in each universe can be based on Chinese Zodiacs. I imagine the U10 GOD being a Ox or Goat.

I'm predicting a shorty Beerus as U10 Hakaishin and a tall Beerus as U3 Hakaishin.

[HeroR]

I don't even see the problem with there being possible issues and things not making sense yet, as we don't know everything just yet. All these questions can very well be answered later. Though Whis' original little spiel on time travel was just plain wrong in regards to Trunks as he doesn't cause any problems what so ever, unless Xenoverse counts where too many timelines cause a big problem.

It could very well be like GT did with the Dragon Balls where there were "unforeseen consequences" , and this could lead to the next arc in dealing with such consequence. I would rather prefer something like that then going into something completely new.

U10 is not modelled after U7 remember, there probably will be discrepancies, hell for all we know a G.o.D might not even exist in U10 anyway.

All universes have Gods of Destruction. Just as ever universe has Supreme Kais. Why would U10 only have Gods of Creation.

It was an bit out there example but one that could be true but the original point is just cuz U7 and un-mirrored Universe had several kaioshin doesn't mean U10 has too.

There being one Kai makes no sense if one universe had five. Even in the data book it claimed two Supreme Kais are on duty while one is the backup.

[dbzfan7]

No, it is explicitly said that only Kaioshin can travel through time.

Again, scientists today speculate about the effects of time travel and some are pretty sure of what would happen, and most of them agree that traveling to the past wouldn't be possible anyways. So again, Whis explaining the effects doesn't mean he knew it was possible. The same goes for time paradoxes, and they might not be aware that it is a time paradox and even if Whis thinks it might be a paradox there is no way to know if nipping it in the bud by killing Zamasu before he time travels would or wouldn't fix the problem since any knowledge of time paradoxes is purely speculation.

I don't see how he'd be aware of time travel theory but be completely unaware of paradox theory. That to me I find very hard to believe. I do agree with Alakazam now though that Beerus wouldn't go to the future, as he'd risk getting in trouble with Zeno. If Goku the others are caught, then it's no longer his problem. Trunks is also very well aware as he mentions time travel to Goku when they first met.

I'm just saying that you can't say it doesn't make sense because we are missing large parts of the puzzle, we can only guess right now, but nothing we've been presented so far outright makes it not make sense.
Meanwhile you are saying that the time paradox HAS to work one way that that the characters HAVE to know that it is a paradox and how the paradox would work. You are stating your opinion like it's fact, while I'm saying lots of "mights" and "maybes" because we are still missing large pieces of the puzzle. I'm not saying everything makes sense right now, but that it's far too early to say that it doesn't make sense.

Yes I can say it doesn't make sense because it doesn't yet, and it's not supposed to yet. That is the point. It won't make sense til we know more of the story. Also no there's plenty to go on why it doesn't make sense. If it made sense, there wouldn't be any more questions. It doesn't make sense because not everything has been addressed yet. You literally just said nothing so far outright doesn't make sense, and then just said not every thing makes sense. Seriously pick a side. Either it makes sense or it doesn't make sense YET.

[ArchedThunder]

I don't see how he'd be aware of time travel theory but be completely unaware of paradox theory. That to me I find very hard to believe. I do agree with Alakazam now though that Beerus wouldn't go to the future, as he'd risk getting in trouble with Zeno. If Goku the others are caught, then it's no longer his problem. Trunks is also very well aware as he mentions time travel to Goku when they first met.

I didn't say Whis straight up doesn't know about paradoxes, but that he might not know that one is happening, and even if he does he can't be certain that killing Zamasu before he even time travels wouldn't fix anything because a paradox hasn't been encountered before, so everything is just speculation.

Yes I can say it doesn't make sense because it doesn't yet, and it's not supposed to yet. That is the point. It won't make sense til we know more of the story. Also no there's plenty to go on why it doesn't make sense. If it made sense, there wouldn't be any more questions. It doesn't make sense because not everything has been addressed yet. You literally just said nothing so far outright doesn't make sense, and then just said not every thing makes sense. Seriously pick a side. Either it makes sense or it doesn't make sense YET.

There's a difference between something not making sense and something not making sense yet. If the details are all laid out and it doesn't work then it doesn't make sense, me saying that I'm not saying it makes sense yet is just me saying that the pieces of the puzzle aren't there yet, so you can't say that it doesn't make sense. You are acting like we have enough information to say it doesn't make sense, when we only have enough information to say that we don't know yet.

[dbzfan7]

I don't see how he'd be aware of time travel theory but be completely unaware of paradox theory. That to me I find very hard to believe. I do agree with Alakazam now though that Beerus wouldn't go to the future, as he'd risk getting in trouble with Zeno. If Goku the others are caught, then it's no longer his problem. Trunks is also very well aware as he mentions time travel to Goku when they first met.

I didn't say Whis straight up doesn't know about paradoxes, but that he might not know that one is happening, and even if he does he can't be certain that killing Zamasu before he even time travels wouldn't fix anything because a paradox hasn't been encountered before, so everything is just speculation.

That's even if one is happening at all. Paradox theory isn't very complex. It's pretty simple to understand. Whether he knows it or not, we'll have to see. I find it hard to believe he wouldn't, but seems to understand butterfly effects just fine. We'll see I guess.

There's a difference between something not making sense and something not making sense yet. If the details are all laid out and it doesn't work then it doesn't make sense, me saying that I'm not saying it makes sense yet is just me saying that the pieces of the puzzle aren't there yet, so you can't say that it doesn't make sense. You are acting like we have enough information to say it doesn't make sense, when we only have enough information to say that we don't know yet.

I'm saying it doesn't make sense yet, and that could change for me. Was that not clear enough? I've been trying to get that point across that all the holes can still be fixed when the time comes. Holes will always exist during serialization til we either get our answer, or they're left unchecked. So yes I can say it doesn't make sense. It's not supposed to. I don't really need to repeat myself why. My entire point is it doesn't make sense yet, and it can make sense later. All of my points could very well be addressed, I don't know. But for now some of the logic I think is pretty faulty. Not just on the heroes side, but especially on the Zamasu's end with Black too.

[alakazam^]

I would still love it if Gowasu's death kills him and then Gowasu is revived at the end of the arc and whenever we get to Zeno's tournament the U10 God of Destruction is super nice to the U7 gang for saving his life.

It's funny because I thought the exact same thing. It would really be a new kind of continuity Dragon Ball doesn't tend to have.

Debating this is really fun but also unfair because we're missing information. Hopefully, this week's episode will shed some light about the wish and maybe Black.

[ArchedThunder]

I don't see how he'd be aware of time travel theory but be completely unaware of paradox theory. That to me I find very hard to believe. I do agree with Alakazam now though that Beerus wouldn't go to the future, as he'd risk getting in trouble with Zeno. If Goku the others are caught, then it's no longer his problem. Trunks is also very well aware as he mentions time travel to Goku when they first met.

I didn't say Whis straight up doesn't know about paradoxes, but that he might not know that one is happening, and even if he does he can't be certain that killing Zamasu before he even time travels wouldn't fix anything because a paradox hasn't been encountered before, so everything is just speculation.

That's even if one is happening at all. Paradox theory isn't very complex. It's pretty simple to understand. Whether he knows it or not, we'll have to see. I find it hard to believe he wouldn't.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say it, it makes it sound like you didn't read my post. I'm saying Whis might know about paradoxes, but that doesn't mean he knows one is happening or that they are even possible, he might think they are impossible, and even if he thinks one might be happening he can't be sure what effect killing Zamasu would have since everything he would know about paradoxes (assuming one has never been encountered) would be purely speculation.
You also have to remember Whis and Beerus don't have anywhere near the same amount of information about what's going on as the viewer does.

[Anime Kitten]

Does anyone think it's any coincidence that Beerus and Supreme Kai are in the same place?

[ArchedThunder]

Does anyone think it's any coincidence that Beerus and Supreme Kai are in the same place?

I'm guessing Zuno comes to tell Kaioshin what happened with Zamasu showing up at his place and then Kaioshin comes to Earth to tell the gang.

[omaro34]

I've said this on here a long time ago, and with each episode coupled with the new information coming out it looks like its turning out to be true.
Gowasu's days are severely numbered, and his end will be coming in the near future.

I knew Gowasu was a goner.

[HeroR]

I do wonder if Zamasu 'dying' has something to do with Black. Some on Reddit thinks Zamasu's ghost possesses Goku to become Black, hence the name of the episode.

I doubt it though since Zamasu hates Goku's guts as much as Freeza and him taking Goku's body makes little sense. He would probably make Goku committee sucide out of spite. Plus, Black praising Goku every other sentence and calls him his aspiration. There is also Future Zamasu who absolutely despises Goku as much as present Zamasu.

[dbzfan7]

I didn't say Whis straight up doesn't know about paradoxes, but that he might not know that one is happening, and even if he does he can't be certain that killing Zamasu before he even time travels wouldn't fix anything because a paradox hasn't been encountered before, so everything is just speculation.

That's even if one is happening at all. Paradox theory isn't very complex. It's pretty simple to understand. Whether he knows it or not, we'll have to see. I find it hard to believe he wouldn't.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say it, it makes it sound like you didn't read my post. I'm saying Whis might know about paradoxes, but that doesn't mean he knows one is happening or that they are even possible, he might think they are impossible, and even if he thinks one might be happening he can't be sure what effect killing Zamasu would have since everything he would know about paradoxes (assuming one has never been encountered) would be purely speculation.
You also have to remember Whis and Beerus don't have anywhere near the same amount of information about what's going on as the viewer does.

A paradox only happens when they rewrite history. It doesn't happen if they don't try to alter the reason Trunks came here. So there is no paradox til they try to kill Zamasu. The other big taking point is we're arguing that we're so sure of what Zamasu is, that it's kinda hard to really say. We're sorta saying the past and future Zamasu are the same, but even then we can only really imply it. Doesn't really take away whether they're really 2 different Zamasu's or 3 different ones even as Trunks timeline has his very own Zamasu. Though really another problem is there may be no paradox at all as I have no clue what Dragon Ball's gonna do with the idea. They might just ignore paradox theory in general. Which is why nothing really makes sense yet, as we don't really know all the rules. Also why I can really hate time travel stories . Still doesn't address Black and Zamasu being counter productive.

[Anime Kitten]

I'm guessing Zuno comes to tell Kaioshin what happened with Zamasu showing up at his place and then Kaioshin comes to Earth to tell the gang.

But if Present Zamasu turns out to be alive, then he could kill Beerus, and Supreme Kai would die as well. I know it's incredibly, extreeeeeemely unlikely, but I figured I'd mention it.

[HeroR]

Does anyone think it's any coincidence that Beerus and Supreme Kai are in the same place?

I'm guessing Zuno comes to tell Kaioshin what happened with Zamasu showing up at his place and then Kaioshin comes to Earth to tell the gang.

What makes you think Zuno has contact with the gods. Outside of Goku, the Kais don't interact with mortals v