apex_pretador wrote:Beerus said he has NOT used 10% power in a long time, which means he has not used it, simple. I dont know why people take it as "beerus used 10% against vegeta".
The only reason he says it is because he used it right there against Vegeta.
This is from the fact checker thread: Episode 8 Minute: 10
Context: After Beerus defeats angry Vegeta
Beerus: "It's been a long time since I've used 10% or so of my full strength. Well, this was more fun than with that Saiyan over at North Kaio's place."
Significance: So it seems Beerus used approximately 10% of his full strength to defeat angry Vegeta, and since it's "been a long time" since he's done that, presumably he used less power when defeating Super Saiyan 3 Goku back in episode 5. The word for 10% here is １割/ichi-wari, the same pattern used in BoG when Whis talks about Beerus fighting at 70% of his power, and SSG Goku talks about fighting at 80%. In contrast, Freeza always used the English word "percent" (so he describes his 100% full power as 100パーセント/hyaku-paasento). Some people have mistranslated １割/ichi-wari as only 1%. The term Beerus uses to describe his full power here is 本気を出す/honki wo dasu, meaning to make a serious effort or go all-out (in contrast, Freeza again uses the actual English words "full power": フルパワー/furu pawaa). So a more literal translation would be something like "It's been a long time since I've gone 10% or so all-out", but I thought that sounded both weird and more ambiguous than the phrase is in Japanese.
And thus, Rageta is probably stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku
Forget Beerus, they're both struggling to attain that level of power again
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
LightBing wrote:Here's my old numbers, they shouldn't diverge much from the new list I'm creating: Chiaotzu - 1.105
(Tenshinhan said he should've stayed back, which I gathered to mean he’s weaker than Raditz, therefore useless in this battle) Yajirobe - 920
(Lazy training equals to smaller gains. We know his motivation wasn't much and even see him lazying around in the panel of their training.)
I was actually asking for their numbers before they all trained with God.
ekrolo2 wrote:And thus, Rageta is probably stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku
Forget Beerus, they're both struggling to attain that level of power again
I wonder who was the writer who didn't get the memo, no percentage talk whatsoever. They even removed the original percentage lines of the movie...
How convenient that they kept the one percentage that pretty much breaks everything 2-3 arcs down the line xD
Seriously, Goku with Super Saiyan Blue at the U6 tournament is weaker than Rageta was, possibly even with several levels of Kaio-Ken. That's insane.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:And thus, Rageta is probably stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku
Forget Beerus, they're both struggling to attain that level of power again
I wonder who was the writer who didn't get the memo, no percentage talk whatsoever. They even removed the original percentage lines of the movie...
How convenient that they kept the one percentage that pretty much breaks everything 2-3 arcs down the line xD
Seriously, Goku with Super Saiyan Blue at the U6 tournament is weaker than Rageta was, possibly even with several levels of Kaio-Ken. That's insane.
Yeah, that was the moment when I stopped caring about power levels regarding the Super anime. Now I just look at it and enjoy it blindly, instead of scratching my head at Trunks taking Kamehameha and what have you.
Plus I've got the manga.
apex_pretador wrote:Why do you think chiaotzu is stronger than Yajirobe?
Because Yajirobe is a lazy bum. While he was stronger than Chiaotzu in the Piccolo Daimao arc, I doubt he did much training in all the years until Raditz arrival. Contrary to the little guy, who I assumed never stopped and had a strong training partner in Tenshinhan.
ekrolo2 wrote:Seriously, Goku with Super Saiyan Blue at the U6 tournament is weaker than Rageta was, possibly even with several levels of Kaio-Ken. That's insane.
What? There's no way in hell to something like this actually be true, when was this even implied?
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
ekrolo2 wrote:Seriously, Goku with Super Saiyan Blue at the U6 tournament is weaker than Rageta was, possibly even with several levels of Kaio-Ken. That's insane.
What? There's no way in hell to something like this actually be true, when was this even implied?
If Vegeta is worth a tenth of Beerus' power (or strong enough to make Beerus use a tenth) then by simple mathematics, SSBlue Goku from the tournament must be weaker than him, cause if he's stronger, him powering up with Kaio-ken to times 10 should be him within spitting range or on par with Beerus. Y' see why the animes dumb like that?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:If Vegeta is worth a tenth of Beerus' power (or strong enough to make Beerus use a tenth) then by simple mathematics, SSBlue Goku from the tournament must be weaker than him, cause if he's stronger, him powering up with Kaio-ken to times 10 should be him within spitting range or on par with Beerus. Y' see why the animes dumb like that?
What if 100% Beerus and 10xKK SSGSS Goku are equals? Still would be mess up?
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
ekrolo2 wrote:If Vegeta is worth a tenth of Beerus' power (or strong enough to make Beerus use a tenth) then by simple mathematics, SSBlue Goku from the tournament must be weaker than him, cause if he's stronger, him powering up with Kaio-ken to times 10 should be him within spitting range or on par with Beerus. Y' see why the animes dumb like that?
What if 100% Beerus and 10xKK SSGSS Goku are equals? Still would be mess up?
Considering the fact the Goku and Vegeta aren't meant to be anywhere close to Beerus' ballpark for a while longer I'm gonna say the anime fucked up here. They should've just found some reason to power Vegeta down like the manga did if Toriyama insisted on Vegeta (somehow) being only worth 10% of Goku's strength.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Based on the original scale Akira Toriyama used for Super Saiyan God Goku, Beerus, and Whis for Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods, where would Super Saiyan 4 GT Gohan from the Assault on the Hell Gate Saga be placed at? For I at least think he should be able to rival or even surpass Frieza in his mastered true form from the Resurrection F movie.
Steven Bloodriver wrote:Based on the original scale Akira Toriyama used for Super Saiyan God Goku, Beerus, and Whis for Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods, where would Super Saiyan 4 GT Gohan from the Assault on the Hell Gate Saga be placed at? For I at least think he should be able to rival or even surpass Frieza in his mastered true form from the Resurrection F movie.
Any Heroes stuff is really hard to place and made all the harder since we don't know how strong God is in comparison to 4.
If it's any consolation, the GT cast can probably wreck the Super Manga cast. Even if Blue is a bigger multiplier or increase than 4, everyone's monstrously higher base forms + transformations would let them win in such a scenario.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:If Vegeta is worth a tenth of Beerus' power (or strong enough to make Beerus use a tenth) then by simple mathematics, SSBlue Goku from the tournament must be weaker than him, cause if he's stronger, him powering up with Kaio-ken to times 10 should be him within spitting range or on par with Beerus. Y' see why the animes dumb like that?
That's why I don't rely on the multipliers. If enraged Vegeta forces Beerus to use 10% of his power and ssjgod Goku (who is a "6") 70%, then Vegeta can't possibly come close to that. No way. Now, regarding ssjblue+kkx10, even though I will (eventually) be doing it differently, have you considered multiplying base separatly and then add the results?
For example: base 5 x 1000 (or whatever multiplier you guys use for ssjb) + 5 (same base) x 10 (kk) = 5.050
instead of base 5 x 1000 x 10 = 50.000
I mean, I don't and I won't use steady multipliers like these but what do you think about this idea?
I'm back!
Lurking around here since 2014. Just an old fan who regained his passion for Dragon Ball since then.
ekrolo2 wrote:If Vegeta is worth a tenth of Beerus' power (or strong enough to make Beerus use a tenth) then by simple mathematics, SSBlue Goku from the tournament must be weaker than him, cause if he's stronger, him powering up with Kaio-ken to times 10 should be him within spitting range or on par with Beerus. Y' see why the animes dumb like that?
That's why I don't rely on the multipliers. If enraged Vegeta forces Beerus to use 10% of his power and ssjgod Goku (who is a "6") 70%, then Vegeta can't possibly come close to that. No way. Now, regarding ssjblue+kkx10, even though I will (eventually) be doing it differently, have you considered multiplying base separatly and then add the results?
For example: base 5 x 1000 (or whatever multiplier you guys use for ssjb) + 5 (same base) x 10 (kk) = 5.050
instead of base 5 x 1000 x 10 = 50.000
I mean, I don't and I won't use steady multipliers like these but what do you think about this idea?
Well Goku isn't a six anymore since Beerus confirms he was lying about all the stuff he tells Goku power wise during the anime fight.
As for KK, it's always worked as a multiplier and Hit even says as much when Goku powers up, saying it's "trippled.... quadrupled...." just before he gets to times 10. If KK worked as you suggest, then Goku is killing himself for a marginal power increase at best.
Thus we come to two conclusions: Rageta remains the strongest Earth character in the anime so far or Beerus was also lying about the 10% thing.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
It was just a way to make heads and tails of it but no matter what, I'll never think of "rageta" as the strongest character at this point simply because it makes no sense whatsoever. He may have been the strongest at that specific moment, but no way stronger than what they are now.
And btw, where was it confirmed that Beerus was lying?
I'm back!
Lurking around here since 2014. Just an old fan who regained his passion for Dragon Ball since then.
Rubens wrote:It was just a way to make heads and tails of it but no matter what, I'll never think of "rageta" as the strongest character at this point simply because it makes no sense whatsoever. He may have been the strongest at that specific moment, but no way stronger than what they are now.
And btw, where was it confirmed that Beerus was lying?
Beerus lies about going all out against Goku multiple times as when he and Whis travel back home, they talk about it.
As for Rageta, it makes no sense short or long term but the only way you can explain it is if he lied about that too.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Rubens wrote:It was just a way to make heads and tails of it but no matter what, I'll never think of "rageta" as the strongest character at this point simply because it makes no sense whatsoever. He may have been the strongest at that specific moment, but no way stronger than what they are now.
And btw, where was it confirmed that Beerus was lying?
Beerus lies about going all out against Goku multiple times as when he and Whis travel back home, they talk about it.
As for Rageta, it makes no sense short or long term but the only way you can explain it is if he lied about that too.
If they didn't make crystal clear that he was lying, then he probably told the true. I just don't see why it would mean Vegeta is above Super Saiyan God's level.
