How could/should Black and Zamasu be defeated?

[Doctor.]

If Goku uses the Zeno button to solve the Black/Zamasu problem, I'll have a good way to walk off from this franchise. Content with the knowledge that it will be shit for the foreseeable future.

I think it's only going to be used to fix up Trunks' world a bit instead of relying on the DBs again (because, let's face it, they're gonna fix his world). Potentially revive future Bulma as well.

[ekrolo2]

If Goku uses the Zeno button to solve the Black/Zamasu problem, I'll have a good way to walk off from this franchise. Content with the knowledge that it will be shit for the foreseeable future.

I think it's only going to be used to fix up Trunks' world a bit instead of relying on the DBs again (because, let's face it, they're gonna fix his world). Potentially revive future Bulma as well.

That's the most likely scenario but Toriyama might go full Kubo and just troll everyone. Even if I got mad about, that's the kind of contempt for your audience I can't help but respect on a few levels.

[Doctor.]

If Goku uses the Zeno button to solve the Black/Zamasu problem, I'll have a good way to walk off from this franchise. Content with the knowledge that it will be shit for the foreseeable future.

I think it's only going to be used to fix up Trunks' world a bit instead of relying on the DBs again (because, let's face it, they're gonna fix his world). Potentially revive future Bulma as well.

That's the most likely scenario but Toriyama might go full Kubo and just troll everyone. Even if I got mad about, that's the kind of contempt for your audience I can't help but respect on a few levels.

Well, Toriyama is the original Kubo. After pulling that bullshit with Cell coming back after his self-destruction, I expect everything.

[ekrolo2]

Well, Toriyama is the original Kubo. After pulling that bullshit with Cell coming back after his self-destruction, I expect everything.

True, although Cell coming back doesn't nearly get as much of a laugh out of me as hyping up Ichigo's new bankai only to break it in half literally a page later then proceed to keep breaking until the very end.

Imagine if Toriyama hyped up the "Saiyan beyond Saiyan" with Gohan then had Cell blow his brains out a page after his epic transformation.

[Lord Beerus]

Well, Toriyama is the original Kubo. After pulling that bullshit with Cell coming back after his self-destruction, I expect everything.

True, although Cell coming back doesn't nearly get as much of a laugh out of me as hyping up Ichigo's new bankai only to break it in half literally a page later then proceed to keep breaking until the very end.

Imagine if Toriyama hyped up the "Saiyan beyond Saiyan" with Gohan then had Cell blow his brains out a page after his epic transformation.

I'd be mad about that for a good hour, then take a nap, wake up, re-read that scene and burst in to a fit of uncontrollable laughter. I'm a bit of a sadist, so there's always this lingering desire in the back of mind for Toriyama to troll us when it comes to Dragon Ball. I kinda want it to happen in Super in a major way just for shits and giggles.

[Lionel]

While I'm ecstatic at the idea of reintroducing an old DB classic technique like the Mafuba, I'm not going to completely dismiss the prospect of killing Zamasu. He's not impervious to damage. If anything, the conditions of his immortality appear similar to Buu's in that he regenerates effortlessly; that doesn't preclude him from being destructible, just like Buu as well. Completely annihilating Zamasu's body down to the last molecule should offer the permanent solution everyone's vying for. Black should be the same. Although depending on the circumstances surrounding his existence, I could envision his fate being akin to the victims of the Black Water Mist who saw themselves ensnared by the mystical menticide released by Garlic Jr. I don't recall them systematically wiping out almost the entirety of the human race, though.

How do you vindicate someone from such glaring atrocities? Assuming Black is merely Goku brainwashed by the Super Dragon Balls like some are speculating, Goku's inherent mindset may not have controlled his actions but his hands are still drenched in the blood of millions. In that respect he's close to being on the same level of depravity as Cell.

[HeroR]

While I'm ecstatic at the idea of reintroducing an old DB classic technique like the Mafuba, I'm not going to completely dismiss the prospect of killing Zamasu. He's not impervious to damage. If anything, the conditions of his immortality appear similar to Buu's in that he regenerates effortlessly; that doesn't preclude him from being destructible, just like Buu as well. Completely annihilating Zamasu's body down to the last molecule should offer the permanent solution everyone's vying for. Black should be the same. Although depending on the circumstances surrounding his existence, I could envision his fate being akin to the victims of the Black Water Mist who saw themselves ensnared by the mystical menticide released by Garlic Jr. I don't recall them systematically wiping out almost the entirety of the human race, though.

How do you vindicate someone from such glaring atrocities? Assuming Black is merely Goku brainwashed by the Super Dragon Balls like some are speculating, Goku's inherent mindset may not have controlled his actions but his hands are still drenched in the blood of millions. In that respect he's close to being on the same level of depravity as Cell.

Zamasu said he was immortal, not that he has fast regeneration. Being vaporized would only inconvenience him for a few seconds before he puts himself back together. Buu just had advance regeneration. He was never called an immortal except by Vegeta, who wondered why he couldn't kill him.

Cell did all his evil willingly. So it isn't like he was brainwash.

[Lionel]

So the gist of your argument is that Zamasu is capable of regenerating from literally nothing? Buu was technically immortal as well yet he could still be killed. That's the equivalency which I'm establishing between these two characters. I doubt Zamasu has ever been exposed to enough offensive power that his body was literally reduced to nothing like Kid Buu and the Spirit Bomb.

Both Cell and Black have killed much of the human race's population. I'm not disputing that a potentially brainwashed Goku's circumstances weren't different, only that his actions appear similar to Cell's when he was on his rampage.

[MajinVegetaPD]

If anything, the conditions of his immortality appear similar to Buu's in that he regenerates effortlessly; that doesn't preclude him from being destructible, just like Buu as well. Completely annihilating Zamasu's body down to the last molecule should offer the permanent solution everyone's vying for.

I'm sorry, but the last thing I want to see is another Spirit Bomb.

[HeroR]

So the gist of your argument is that Zamasu is capable of regenerating from literally nothing? Buu was technically immortal as well yet he could still be killed. That's the equivalency which I'm establishing between these two characters. I doubt Zamasu has ever been exposed to enough offensive power that his body was literally reduced to nothing like Kid Buu and the Spirit Bomb.

Both Cell and Black have killed much of the human race's population. I'm not disputing that a potentially brainwashed Goku's circumstances weren't different, only that his actions appear similar to Cell's when he was on his rampage.

He's an immortal, why wouldn't he be able to put his body back from nothing. Being immortal means, you can't die. Buu wasn't never a complete immortal. He just had good regeneration and could live long as he isn't killed, like the elves from Lord of the Rings. Zamasu had shown that he can be stabbed and blasted, and it doesn't nothing to him. Zamasu also claimed that he has an immortal body, unlike who where such a thing was never stated. And if he got immortality from the Super Dragon Balls, the dragon won't halfass a wish for eternal life.

Black would be closer to Buu than Cell since he wiped out other planets before Earth.

[fadeddreams5]

As Zamasu and Black are about to kill everyone, Gohan should appear out of nowhere and do to them as he did with the Cell Jrs, prompting the following dialogue:

Goku: Ooooo...Gohan, you're amaz--
Gohan: Shh, father. I'm sorry, but there's a conference out there that needs me.

And he walks off into the sunset, never to be heard from or seen again in Super.

[Black_Liger]

At the end, however they defeat Zamasu, Goku will call Zeno, and say it will be like this.

Goku: I've got the friend I told ya about Zen-chan.

Zen-chan: huh, this kaioshin?.

Goku: He needs to understand us mortals better, I think ya can help him, and in turn he can be your friend, he's immortal so he will never die out on you, unlike me, 'cause I'm a mortal.

And Zamasu will finally find peace with Zen-chan, He will appear again in the omniverse tournament in Goku's team, Which will be also be joined by Vegeta, Trunks and Uub (let's hope for a Time skip) too. (This is all my idea, I want it to go this way, I would love Zamasu reedeming himself and being a teammate, he could be in Dragon Ball what Van is for the Seven Deadly Sins)

[Cetra]

In case the theory about Zamasu and Black being the Kaioshin and Hakaishin ends up being confirmed, then they'd just have to kill Black.

Either that, or Zeno will punish him for his misbehaviour and wipe him out of existence.

Except if you are perfectly immortal even this rule of "kill one kill the other" should be broken.

[Dbzfan94]

I've said it once I'll it again.
Evil Containment Wave (Mafuba)

[Doctor.]

As Zamasu and Black are about to kill everyone, Gohan should appear out of nowhere and do to them as he did with the Cell Jrs, prompting the following dialogue:

Goku: Ooooo...Gohan, you're amaz--
Gohan: Shh, father. I'm sorry, but there's a conference out there that needs me.

And he walks off into the sunset, never to be heard from or seen again in Super.

Gohan killing someone? In Super?

Hah! That's a laugh! More like when Zamasu and Black are about to kill everyone, Gohan shows up, powers up and gets tossed away with Majin Boo's body.

Then Whis shows up and vaporizes the two.

[Lionel]

So the gist of your argument is that Zamasu is capable of regenerating from literally nothing? Buu was technically immortal as well yet he could still be killed. That's the equivalency which I'm establishing between these two characters. I doubt Zamasu has ever been exposed to enough offensive power that his body was literally reduced to nothing like Kid Buu and the Spirit Bomb.

Both Cell and Black have killed much of the human race's population. I'm not disputing that a potentially brainwashed Goku's circumstances weren't different, only that his actions appear similar to Cell's when he was on his rampage.

He's an immortal, why wouldn't he be able to put his body back from nothing. Being immortal means, you can't die. Buu wasn't never a complete immortal. He just had good regeneration and could live long as he isn't killed, like the elves from Lord of the Rings. Zamasu had shown that he can be stabbed and blasted, and it doesn't nothing to him. Zamasu also claimed that he has an immortal body, unlike who where such a thing was never stated. And if he got immortality from the Super Dragon Balls, the dragon won't halfass a wish for eternal life.

Black would be closer to Buu than Cell since he wiped out other planets before Earth.

Immortality is not an absolutistic defence against death. If it were then those such as Roshi would be wholly unkillable. We were already shown that Zamasu's bodily integrity has limitations when Future Trunks ran his sword clean through him. Moreover, we've never witnessed anyone regenerate from entirely nothing; even Buu's ability to reconstitute his body was dependent on whether a single molecule of his being was still in existence. Nothing has demonstrated that Zamasu's regeneration would permit him to come back from being disintegrated to nothing. His immortality as of now appears to be like a cross between Garlic Jr's and Buu's.

Point taken about Black's rampage across the universe. I had forgotten that his killing spree preceded coming to Earth. It paints him in an even worst light, though.

[HeroR]

Immortality is not an absolutistic defence against death. If it were then those such as Roshi would be wholly unkillable. We were already shown that Zamasu's bodily integrity has limitations when Future Trunks ran his sword clean through him. Moreover, we've never witnessed anyone regenerate from entirely nothing; even Buu's ability to reconstitute his body was dependent on whether a single molecule of his being was still in existence. Nothing has demonstrated that Zamasu's regeneration would permit him to come back from being disintegrated to nothing. His immortality as of now appears to be like a cross between Garlic Jr's and Buu's.

Point taken about Black's rampage across the universe. I had forgotten that his killing spree preceded coming to Earth. It paints him in an even worst light, though.

Roshi was never call immortal. He just can't die of old age, although he still gets old. He can still be killed. Buu had advance regeneration and eternal youth. But he can still be killed.

What Zamasu says he has is complete immorality. Meaning can't die at all. Not from old age, no aging, and he can't be killed even if someone tries to vaporize him. Think Savage from DC.

[DragonBallFoodie]

If Black and Zamasu have a connection, then either:
- one is defeated and the other falls

- or one turns on the other and sacrifices his life to stop the other.

[spoiler]I think it'd be cool to see that Zamasu realizes he was wrong and that he made a mistake, and so he stops Black at the cost of his own life, or something similar.[/spoiler]

[Lionel]

Immortality is not an absolutistic defence against death. If it were then those such as Roshi would be wholly unkillable. We were already shown that Zamasu's bodily integrity has limitations when Future Trunks ran his sword clean through him. Moreover, we've never witnessed anyone regenerate from entirely nothing; even Buu's ability to reconstitute his body was dependent on whether a single molecule of his being was still in existence. Nothing has demonstrated that Zamasu's regeneration would permit him to come back from being disintegrated to nothing. His immortality as of now appears to be like a cross between Garlic Jr's and Buu's.

Point taken about Black's rampage across the universe. I had forgotten that his killing spree preceded coming to Earth. It paints him in an even worst light, though.

Roshi was never call immortal. He just can't die of old age, although he still gets old. He can still be killed. Buu had advance regeneration and eternal youth. But he can still be killed.

What Zamasu says he has is complete immorality. Meaning can't die at all. Not from old age, no aging, and he can't be killed even if someone tries to vaporize him. Think Savage from DC.

The creature in which he acquired his immortality from was referred to as the Immortal Phoenix. We don't know when specifically the phoenix granted him eternal life because it's never made clear, though he did mistakenly try to give it to Goku and had to be reminded that it was gone by Turtle. Our only other confirmed instances of immortality are the cyborgs whom we know have eternal youth as part of the package because #18 was never depicted to have aged over the years.

I think we need to keep in mind that this statement is coming from a myopic point of view. Zamasu perceives himself to be above the machinations of humanity. He truly thinks of himself as being divine, and when that belief system is coupled with the immortality granted by a powerful wish fulfilling dragon, the notion of his self-ability is bound to increase as a result. His immortality has been contradicted by Trunks impaling him, though. It's not the equivalent of indestructibility, otherwise the blade would have held no impact and Zamasu wouldn't have a reason to avoid any of his opponent's attacks in the first place if they can cause literally no damage to him.

[fadeddreams5]

As Zamasu and Black are about to kill everyone, Gohan should appear out of nowhere and do to them as he did with the Cell Jrs, prompting the following dialogue:

Goku: Ooooo...Gohan, you're amaz--
Gohan: Shh, father. I'm sorry, but there's a conference out there that needs me.

And he walks off into the sunset, never to be heard from or seen again in Super.

Gohan killing someone? In Super?

Hah! That's a laugh! More like when Zamasu and Black are about to kill everyone, Gohan shows up, powers up and gets tossed away with Majin Boo's body.

Then Whis shows up and vaporizes the two.

This is something I would actually expect though. ._.