Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Chiki]

I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

If Goku uses Super Saiyan God, of course it's going to be above all of his other forms except for Super Saiyan Blue.

When Goku reverted from Super Saiyan God to a regular Super Saiyan, he didn't lose power. In that way, you could say that the current Super Saiyan Goku is stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku during his fight with Beerus.

Current Super Saiyan God Goku isn't weaker than current Super Saiyan Goku. That is his strongest form outside of Super Saiyan Blue.

Look I don't even know what you're talking about

IN THE ANIME there is NO current SSG!!!! period. It's gone, done, non existent anymore. It literally was never seen again since BoG arc.

IN THE MANGA the SSG form STILL exists and is stronger than all his other SSJ transformations except SSB.

Why is this so hard to understand???

The manga & anime don't possess completely different characters. They are just retelling the same same events with some differences. Goku showed the ability to go Super Saiyan God in the manga, so he can still use it.

I wish it was that simple.

In Game of Thrones, for example, Balon Greyjoy survives until season 6 while he dies in the third book of the A Song of Ice and Fire series.

In Harry Potter, Winky doesn't exist in the movies.

In the Dragon Ball Z manga, Bubbles doesn't exist. In the anime he does.

And so on. I can give you dozens of examples of this. Retellings can differ in plot due to different writers even if they ultimately tell the same story; they do so in different ways.

[ekrolo2]

Look I don't even know what you're talking about

IN THE ANIME there is NO current SSG!!!! period. It's gone, done, non existent anymore. It literally was never seen again since BoG arc.

IN THE MANGA the SSG form STILL exists and is stronger than all his other SSJ transformations except SSB.

Why is this so hard to understand???

The manga & anime don't possess completely different characters. They are just retelling the same same events with some differences. Goku showed the ability to go Super Saiyan God in the manga, so he can still use it.

I wish it was that simple.

In Game of Thrones, for example, Balon Greyjoy survives until season 6 while he dies in the third book of the A Song of Ice and Fire series.

In Harry Potter, Winky doesn't exist in the movies.

In the Dragon Ball Z manga, Bubbles doesn't exist. In the anime he does.

And so on. I can give you dozens of examples of this. Retellings can differ in plot due to different writers even if they ultimately tell the same story; they do so in different ways.

Bubbles exists in both, Gregory is anime exclusive.

[Chiki]

The manga & anime don't possess completely different characters. They are just retelling the same same events with some differences. Goku showed the ability to go Super Saiyan God in the manga, so he can still use it.

I wish it was that simple.

In Game of Thrones, for example, Balon Greyjoy survives until season 6 while he dies in the third book of the A Song of Ice and Fire series.

In Harry Potter, Winky doesn't exist in the movies.

In the Dragon Ball Z manga, Bubbles doesn't exist. In the anime he does.

And so on. I can give you dozens of examples of this. Retellings can differ in plot due to different writers even if they ultimately tell the same story; they do so in different ways.

Bubbles exists in both, Gregory is anime exclusive.

I meant to make the point with Gregory instead then.

[Bullza]

I was re-reading the manga today and I noticed that during the fight between Goku and First Form Frost that they ended up moving so fast that Krillin said that they'd disappeared and then Master Roshi says they're too fast for them to keep up.

If Goku isn't supposed to have absorbed the power of God and they're at regular levels then why can't Krillin keep track of someone of First Form Frost's calibre?

[Hugo Boss]

I was re-reading the manga today and I noticed that during the fight between Goku and First Form Frost that they ended up moving so fast that Krillin said that they'd disappeared and then Master Roshi says they're too fast for them to keep up.

If Goku isn't supposed to have absorbed the power of God and they're at regular levels then why can't Krillin keep track of someone of First Form Frost's calibre?

This is a strong indication that First Form Frost is far stronger than Krillin and Roshi.

[Chiki]

I was re-reading the manga today and I noticed that during the fight between Goku and First Form Frost that they ended up moving so fast that Krillin said that they'd disappeared and then Master Roshi says they're too fast for them to keep up.

If Goku isn't supposed to have absorbed the power of God and they're at regular levels then why can't Krillin keep track of someone of First Form Frost's calibre?

Weak argument. We already know Frost is much stronger than those two so it's not surprising (I'd say it was a mistake on Toyotaro's part who forgot that Krillin could keep up with the Cell Games iirc). It was already stated that SS2 Goku and Trunks are only stronger than SS2 Cell Games Gohan, and Goku accesses his god power in SSG form in the manga. If Goku had god power in Base in the anime, it would be redundant since Goku uses SSG for that. Further, Goku was never stated to have absorbed god power in the manga.

[Bullza]

Weak argument.

What argument? I was just pointing out a line of dialogue...

[TheMikado]

I was re-reading the manga today and I noticed that during the fight between Goku and First Form Frost that they ended up moving so fast that Krillin said that they'd disappeared and then Master Roshi says they're too fast for them to keep up.

If Goku isn't supposed to have absorbed the power of God and they're at regular levels then why can't Krillin keep track of someone of First Form Frost's calibre?

When's the last time Krillin watched Goku fight, and for that matter how could anyone watch Vegeta beat up on Beerus?

[ekrolo2]

I was re-reading the manga today and I noticed that during the fight between Goku and First Form Frost that they ended up moving so fast that Krillin said that they'd disappeared and then Master Roshi says they're too fast for them to keep up.

If Goku isn't supposed to have absorbed the power of God and they're at regular levels then why can't Krillin keep track of someone of First Form Frost's calibre?

Considering the fact Goku actually uses God as a separate form like he does any transformation instead of an upgraded base state, I'd say no he hasn't. The F manga was written to promote the movie, meaning it had to adhere to the movies rules about Goku & Vegeta's power. The Super manga (and anime) are just Toyotaro and Toei doing their own thing with Toriyama's script as a basis.

[Bullza]

I'm trying to remember any comments from Krillin about seeing or not seeing certain fights. I know that there was a comment in the BoG movie about Roshi and Krillin not being able to see Goku and Beerus.

I can't remember if he commented on his fight with Cell.

In the manga though when Vegeta fights Cabba he does comment on Canna's tactics being excellent and how he used the sun to blind Vegeta.

So he can see that but not Goku vs Frost even though they should be slower.

[TheMikado]

I'm trying to remember any comments from Krillin about seeing or not seeing certain fights. I know that there was a comment in the BoG movie about Roshi and Krillin not being able to see Goku and Beerus.

I can't remember if he commented on his fight with Cell.

In the manga though when Vegeta fights Cabba he does comment on Canna's tactics being excellent and how he used the sun to blind Vegeta.

So he can see that but not Goku vs Frost even though they should be slower.

I'd probably just call it a throw away comment. That's always been a very inconsistent aspect

[brett wheeler]

tell me what you guys think

saiyan sega

base goku: 450
piccolo: 430
radits: 1,200-1,500
enraged gohan: 3,000 plus
gohan normal: 1-4
Kuririn: 240
yamcha: 230
tien: 320

a year later

gohan: 2,000
piccolo: 2,500
Kuririn: 1,800
yamcha: 1,300
tien: 1,900
nappa: 4,000-5,000
goku: 8,500
vegeta: 12,000-18,000
goku kaioken:12,750
goku kaioken*2: 17,000
goku kaioken*3: 25,500
goku kaioken*4: 34,000
vegeta galick gun: 26,000

frieza sega

Kuririn post visual training: 2,200
gohan post zenkia: 3,500
frieza soldier: 200-2,000
nemekian soldiers: 4,000
dadoria: 26,000
zarbon first form: 27,000
ciu: 18,000
vegeta post zenkia: 28,000
zarbon true form: 30,000
vegeta post second zenkia: 32,000
Kuririn guru awakening: 13,000
gohan guru awakening: 18,000
guldo: 13,000
recoom: 42,000
burter: 42,000
jiece: 42,000
goku post training: 120,000
captian ginyu: 120,000
goku kaioken: 180,000
ginyu goku body: 20,000 and rising
vegeta post zenkia sleep deprived: 290,000
gohan post zenkia: 25,000
goku ginyu body: 1,000 and weakening
vegeta full power fully rested:520,000
gohan zenkia agian: 30,000
frieza 1st form: 530,000
frieza 2nd form: 1,500,000
gohan enraged: 900,000
piccolo: 1,700,000
gohan zenkia: 80,000
frieza 3rd form: 2,500,000
gohan rage boost maximum power: 2,300,000
frieza 4th form 1%: 2,700,000
vegeta zenkia: 2,600,000
goku zenkia: 3,000,000
frieza 50%: 60,000,000
goku kaioken*20: 60,000,000
frieza 100%: 120,000,000
goku ssj: 150,000,000

history of trunks

future gohan: 3,200,000
future gohan ssj 160,000,000
teen future trunks: 64,000
teen future trunks ssj: 3,200,000
andriod 17: 250,000,000
andriod 18: 240,000,000
future gohan post zenkia and training: 4,000,000
future gohan ssj post zenkia and training: 200,000,000
future teen trunks post zenkia and training: 600,000
future teen trunks ssj post zenkia and training: 30,000,000
future teen trunks ssj post zenkia and traing enraged: 80,000,000
future trunks time skip: 3,000,000
future trunks ssj time skip: 150,000,000

future trunks arc

future trunks post zenkia: 3,500,000
future trunks ssj post zenkia 175,000,000
mecha frieza: 170,000,000
king cold: 100,000,000
vegeta post training: 3,200,000
gohan post slight training: 120,000
Kuririn post training: 80,000
yamcha: 50,000
chiotzu: 20,000
tien: 100,000
goku training in space: 4,500,000
goku ssj training in space: 225,000,000

andriod arc

gohan after training: 2,500,000
piccolo restrained: 90,000,000
Kuririn post training: 800,000
yamcha post training: 300,000
tien post training: 1,200,000
goku full power 5,000,000
goku ssj full power: 250,000,000
andriod 19: 100,000,000
andriod 19: kamehameha absoarbed: 170,000,000
andriod 20: 200,000,000
goku heart virus: 2,500,000 and decreasing
goku ssj heart virus: 125,000,000 and decreasing
vegeta: 4,500,000
vegeta ssj: 225,000,000
piccolo full power: 220,000,000
andriod 20 ki absoarbed: 210,000,000
future trunks: 4,500,000
future trunks ssj: 225,000,000
andriod 18: 430,000,000
andriod 17: 440,000,000
andriod 16: 600,000,000
goku post zenkia: 6,000,000
goku ssj zenkia: 300,000,000
piccolo fused with kami: 440,000,000
cell initial: 350,000,000
cell post absorbed people: 620,000,000
2nd form cell: 1,000,000,000
vegeta post rosat: 20,000,000
vegeta ssj post rosat: 1,000,000,000
vegeta ssj 2nd grade: 1,500,000,000
trunks post rosat: 15,000,000
trunks ssj post rosat: 750,000,000
trunks ssj 2nd grade: 1,125,000,000
trunks ssj 3rd grade: 5,625,000,000
perfect cell vs vegeta: 2,000,000,000
perfect cell vs trunks: 5,000,000
goku post rosat: 70,000,000
goku ssj post rosat: 3,500,000,000
gohan post rosat: 80,000,000
gohan ssj post rosat: 4,000,000,000
cell vs goku: 4,000,000,000
goku maximum power over limits vs cell 3,900,000,000
cell vs gohan 4,500,000,000
gohan ssj2: 8,000,000,000
cell full power: 6,500,000,000
super perfect cell: 9,000,000,000
vegeta ssj post training and enraged: 2,000,000,000
gohan ssj2 injured final battle: 4,500,000,000
gohan ssj2 family kamehameha: 8,500,000,000
gohan ssj2 hidden potential slightly unleashed family kamehameha: 10,000,000,000

buu sega

gohan: 40,000,000
gohan ssj: 2,000,000,000
gohan ssj2: 4,000,000,000
videl: 40
hurcule: 20
goten: 2,500,000
goten ssj: 125,000,000
trunks: 3,000,000
trunks ssj: 150,000,000
vegeta: 70,000,000
vegeta ssj: 3,500,000,000
videl post flight training: 70
goten post training 3,500,000
goten ssj post training:175,000,000
trunks post training: 4,000,000
trunks ssj post training: 200,000,000
gohan post training 45,000,000
gohan ssj post training: 2,250,000,000
gohan ssj2 post training: 4,500,000,000
spopavitch: 60 and increasing
yamu: 50
piu piu: 6,000,000
yokon: 90,000,000
goku: 90,000,000
goku ssj: 4,500,000,000
goku ssj2: 9,000,000,000
majin vegeta ssj2 :9,000,000,000
gahan ssj2 enraged: 8,000,000,000
majin buu: 20,000,000,000
kaioshin 400,000,000
vegeta final atonement: 18,000,000,000
goku ssj3: 36,000,000,000
goten & trunks fusion state: 3,500,000
fatenks: 2,000
skinnetenks: 200
gotenks: 700,000,000
gotenks ssj: 35,000,000,000
super buu: 150,000,000,000
goten & trunks post rosat 4,500,000
gotenks: 800,000,000
gotenks ssj: 40,000,000,000
gotenks ssj3: 160,000,000,000 immense strain and power decreasing
super buu enraged: 160,000,000,000
ultimate gohan: 200,000,000,000
buutenks: 210,000,000,000
buuhan: 300,000,000,000
vegeta zenkai: 75,000,000
vegito: 250,000,000,000
ssj vegito:12,500,000,000,000
kid buu: 35,000,000,000
super genkidama: 100,000,000,000

bog sega

goku: 110,000,000
goku ssj: 5,500,000,000
goku ssj2: 11,000,000,000
goku ssj3: 44,000,000,000
beerus supressed far less than 1% 15,000,000,000,000
vegeta 95,000,000
vegeta ssj: 4,750,000,000
vegeta ssj2: 9,500,000,000
weakened ultimate gohan 70,000,000,000
weaker gotenks 750,000,000
weaker ssj gotenks: 37,500,000,000
enraged vegeta ssj2: 900,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 10%: 4,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku zenkia: 120,000,000
goku ssj zenkia: 6,000,000,000
goku ssg initial 40%: 400,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg 60%: 8,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 30%: 9,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg 70%: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 40%: 15,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg 90%: 25,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 60%: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg 100%: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 70%: 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssj crimson flame: 28,000,000,000,000,000,000,000-100,000,000,000,000 fluctuating as ssg is merging with him
goku final punch ssg evolved: 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

rof sega

gohan weakened: 4,000,000
gohan releasing a little mystic power: 4,000,000,000
gohan using ssj to release all mystic power: 200,000,000,000
tagoma: 180,000,000,000
tagoma ginyu releasing hidden potential: 190,000,000,000
piccolo: 9,500,000,000
gotenks: 750,000,000
gotenks ssj: 37,500,000,000
goten & trunks: 3,500,000
goku & vegeta: 11,000,000,000,000
frieza 1st form: 530,000,000,000
frieza 4th form: 7,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssb: 45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
golden frieza: 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
golden frieza tired: 20,000,00,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 100%: 90,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
whis: 180,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

u6 arc

goku & vegeta post rosat: 13,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssj: 650,000,000,000,000
botomo: 1,000,000,000,000 very high defense
frost first form: 2,000,000,000,000
frost 3rd form: 15,000,000,000,000
frost 4th form: 200,000,000,000,000
piccolo post ( bulshit ) power up: 16,000,000,000,000
frost 4th form tired: 18,000,000,000,000
cabba: 12,000,000,000,000
cabba ssj: 600,000,000,000,000
hit taking it easy: 14,000,000,000,000
hit vs vegeta: 45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg: 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssb: 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
hit first improvement: 55,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
hit second improvement: 60,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssb kaioken: 75,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssb kaioken*10: 500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
hit final improvement: 510,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
champa: 85,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
vados: 190,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
hit tired improvements gone: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
zeno gaurds: 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
zeno: 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or just omnipotent

black sega

trunks: 52,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta: 13,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssj: 650,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssj2: 1,300,000,000,000,000
goku ssj3: 5,200,000,000,000,000
trunks ssj: 2,600,000,000,000,000
trunks ssj2: 5,200,000,000,000,000
goku black initial: 7,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg: 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku black suppressed agianst goku and suppressed because time distortion: 1,400,000,000,000,000
kid trunks & goten: 3,000,000,000
zamasu first encounter: 1,000,000,000,000,000
vegeta ssb suppressed against trunks: 7,000,000,000,000,000
black goku ssj2 power absorbed: 50,000,000,000,000,000
vegeta suppressed agianst black: 70,000,000,000,000,000
super saiyan rose black: 55,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
zamasu future: 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
trunks ssj2 ( BULLSHIT ) rage boost power up from hell: 45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

this is my best list its long still trying to figure out how to make it sorter what do you guys think

[Hugo Boss]

I'm trying to remember any comments from Krillin about seeing or not seeing certain fights. I know that there was a comment in the BoG movie about Roshi and Krillin not being able to see Goku and Beerus.

I can't remember if he commented on his fight with Cell.

In the manga though when Vegeta fights Cabba he does comment on Canna's tactics being excellent and how he used the sun to blind Vegeta.

So he can see that but not Goku vs Frost even though they should be slower.

Well, when Krillin commented on that, Vegeta was sat on the floor and Cabba was preparing to fire a ki blast. Only he used high-speed movements before. I think they can't keep up with the movements but can understand what is happening most of the times.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

tell me what you guys think
[spoiler]saiyan sega

base goku: 450
piccolo: 430
radits: 1,200-1,500
enraged gohan: 3,000 plus
gohan normal: 1-4
Kuririn: 240
yamcha: 230
tien: 320

a year later

gohan: 2,000
piccolo: 2,500
Kuririn: 1,800
yamcha: 1,300
tien: 1,900
nappa: 4,000-5,000
goku: 8,500
vegeta: 12,000-18,000
goku kaioken:12,750
goku kaioken*2: 17,000
goku kaioken*3: 25,500
goku kaioken*4: 34,000
vegeta galick gun: 26,000

frieza sega

Kuririn post visual training: 2,200
gohan post zenkia: 3,500
frieza soldier: 200-2,000
nemekian soldiers: 4,000
dadoria: 26,000
zarbon first form: 27,000
ciu: 18,000
vegeta post zenkia: 28,000
zarbon true form: 30,000
vegeta post second zenkia: 32,000
Kuririn guru awakening: 13,000
gohan guru awakening: 18,000
guldo: 13,000
recoom: 42,000
burter: 42,000
jiece: 42,000
goku post training: 120,000
captian ginyu: 120,000
goku kaioken: 180,000
ginyu goku body: 20,000 and rising
vegeta post zenkia sleep deprived: 290,000
gohan post zenkia: 25,000
goku ginyu body: 1,000 and weakening
vegeta full power fully rested:520,000
gohan zenkia agian: 30,000
frieza 1st form: 530,000
frieza 2nd form: 1,500,000
gohan enraged: 900,000
piccolo: 1,700,000
gohan zenkia: 80,000
frieza 3rd form: 2,500,000
gohan rage boost maximum power: 2,300,000
frieza 4th form 1%: 2,700,000
vegeta zenkia: 2,600,000
goku zenkia: 3,000,000
frieza 50%: 60,000,000
goku kaioken*20: 60,000,000
frieza 100%: 120,000,000
goku ssj: 150,000,000

history of trunks

future gohan: 3,200,000
future gohan ssj 160,000,000
teen future trunks: 64,000
teen future trunks ssj: 3,200,000
andriod 17: 250,000,000
andriod 18: 240,000,000
future gohan post zenkia and training: 4,000,000
future gohan ssj post zenkia and training: 200,000,000
future teen trunks post zenkia and training: 600,000
future teen trunks ssj post zenkia and training: 30,000,000
future teen trunks ssj post zenkia and traing enraged: 80,000,000
future trunks time skip: 3,000,000
future trunks ssj time skip: 150,000,000

future trunks arc

future trunks post zenkia: 3,500,000
future trunks ssj post zenkia 175,000,000
mecha frieza: 170,000,000
king cold: 100,000,000
vegeta post training: 3,200,000
gohan post slight training: 120,000
Kuririn post training: 80,000
yamcha: 50,000
chiotzu: 20,000
tien: 100,000
goku training in space: 4,500,000
goku ssj training in space: 225,000,000

andriod arc

gohan after training: 2,500,000
piccolo restrained: 90,000,000
Kuririn post training: 800,000
yamcha post training: 300,000
tien post training: 1,200,000
goku full power 5,000,000
goku ssj full power: 250,000,000
andriod 19: 100,000,000
andriod 19: kamehameha absoarbed: 170,000,000
andriod 20: 200,000,000
goku heart virus: 2,500,000 and decreasing
goku ssj heart virus: 125,000,000 and decreasing
vegeta: 4,500,000
vegeta ssj: 225,000,000
piccolo full power: 220,000,000
andriod 20 ki absoarbed: 210,000,000
future trunks: 4,500,000
future trunks ssj: 225,000,000
andriod 18: 430,000,000
andriod 17: 440,000,000
andriod 16: 600,000,000
goku post zenkia: 6,000,000
goku ssj zenkia: 300,000,000
piccolo fused with kami: 440,000,000
cell initial: 350,000,000
cell post absorbed people: 620,000,000
2nd form cell: 1,000,000,000
vegeta post rosat: 20,000,000
vegeta ssj post rosat: 1,000,000,000
vegeta ssj 2nd grade: 1,500,000,000
trunks post rosat: 15,000,000
trunks ssj post rosat: 750,000,000
trunks ssj 2nd grade: 1,125,000,000
trunks ssj 3rd grade: 5,625,000,000
perfect cell vs vegeta: 2,000,000,000
perfect cell vs trunks: 5,000,000
goku post rosat: 70,000,000
goku ssj post rosat: 3,500,000,000
gohan post rosat: 80,000,000
gohan ssj post rosat: 4,000,000,000
cell vs goku: 4,000,000,000
goku maximum power over limits vs cell 3,900,000,000
cell vs gohan 4,500,000,000
gohan ssj2: 8,000,000,000
cell full power: 6,500,000,000
super perfect cell: 9,000,000,000
vegeta ssj post training and enraged: 2,000,000,000
gohan ssj2 injured final battle: 4,500,000,000
gohan ssj2 family kamehameha: 8,500,000,000
gohan ssj2 hidden potential slightly unleashed family kamehameha: 10,000,000,000

buu sega

gohan: 40,000,000
gohan ssj: 2,000,000,000
gohan ssj2: 4,000,000,000
videl: 40
hurcule: 20
goten: 2,500,000
goten ssj: 125,000,000
trunks: 3,000,000
trunks ssj: 150,000,000
vegeta: 70,000,000
vegeta ssj: 3,500,000,000
videl post flight training: 70
goten post training 3,500,000
goten ssj post training:175,000,000
trunks post training: 4,000,000
trunks ssj post training: 200,000,000
gohan post training 45,000,000
gohan ssj post training: 2,250,000,000
gohan ssj2 post training: 4,500,000,000
spopavitch: 60 and increasing
yamu: 50
piu piu: 6,000,000
yokon: 90,000,000
goku: 90,000,000
goku ssj: 4,500,000,000
goku ssj2: 9,000,000,000
majin vegeta ssj2 :9,000,000,000
gahan ssj2 enraged: 8,000,000,000
majin buu: 20,000,000,000
kaioshin 400,000,000
vegeta final atonement: 18,000,000,000
goku ssj3: 36,000,000,000
goten & trunks fusion state: 3,500,000
fatenks: 2,000
skinnetenks: 200
gotenks: 700,000,000
gotenks ssj: 35,000,000,000
super buu: 150,000,000,000
goten & trunks post rosat 4,500,000
gotenks: 800,000,000
gotenks ssj: 40,000,000,000
gotenks ssj3: 160,000,000,000 immense strain and power decreasing
super buu enraged: 160,000,000,000
ultimate gohan: 200,000,000,000
buutenks: 210,000,000,000
buuhan: 300,000,000,000
vegeta zenkai: 75,000,000
vegito: 250,000,000,000
ssj vegito:12,500,000,000,000
kid buu: 35,000,000,000
super genkidama: 100,000,000,000

bog sega

goku: 110,000,000
goku ssj: 5,500,000,000
goku ssj2: 11,000,000,000
goku ssj3: 44,000,000,000
beerus supressed far less than 1% 15,000,000,000,000
vegeta 95,000,000
vegeta ssj: 4,750,000,000
vegeta ssj2: 9,500,000,000
weakened ultimate gohan 70,000,000,000
weaker gotenks 750,000,000
weaker ssj gotenks: 37,500,000,000
enraged vegeta ssj2: 900,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 10%: 4,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku zenkia: 120,000,000
goku ssj zenkia: 6,000,000,000
goku ssg initial 40%: 400,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg 60%: 8,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 30%: 9,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg 70%: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 40%: 15,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg 90%: 25,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 60%: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg 100%: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 70%: 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssj crimson flame: 28,000,000,000,000,000,000,000-100,000,000,000,000 fluctuating as ssg is merging with him
goku final punch ssg evolved: 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

rof sega

gohan weakened: 4,000,000
gohan releasing a little mystic power: 4,000,000,000
gohan using ssj to release all mystic power: 200,000,000,000
tagoma: 180,000,000,000
tagoma ginyu releasing hidden potential: 190,000,000,000
piccolo: 9,500,000,000
gotenks: 750,000,000
gotenks ssj: 37,500,000,000
goten & trunks: 3,500,000
goku & vegeta: 11,000,000,000,000
frieza 1st form: 530,000,000,000
frieza 4th form: 7,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssb: 45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
golden frieza: 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
golden frieza tired: 20,000,00,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 100%: 90,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
whis: 180,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

u6 arc

goku & vegeta post rosat: 13,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssj: 650,000,000,000,000
botomo: 1,000,000,000,000 very high defense
frost first form: 2,000,000,000,000
frost 3rd form: 15,000,000,000,000
frost 4th form: 200,000,000,000,000
piccolo post ( bulshit ) power up: 16,000,000,000,000
frost 4th form tired: 18,000,000,000,000
cabba: 12,000,000,000,000
cabba ssj: 600,000,000,000,000
hit taking it easy: 14,000,000,000,000
hit vs vegeta: 45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg: 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssb: 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
hit first improvement: 55,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
hit second improvement: 60,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssb kaioken: 75,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssb kaioken*10: 500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
hit final improvement: 510,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
champa: 85,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
vados: 190,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
hit tired improvements gone: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
zeno gaurds: 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
zeno: 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or just omnipotent

black sega

trunks: 52,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta: 13,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssj: 650,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssj2: 1,300,000,000,000,000
goku ssj3: 5,200,000,000,000,000
trunks ssj: 2,600,000,000,000,000
trunks ssj2: 5,200,000,000,000,000
goku black initial: 7,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg: 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku black suppressed agianst goku and suppressed because time distortion: 1,400,000,000,000,000
kid trunks & goten: 3,000,000,000
zamasu first encounter: 1,000,000,000,000,000
vegeta ssb suppressed against trunks: 7,000,000,000,000,000
black goku ssj2 power absorbed: 50,000,000,000,000,000
vegeta suppressed agianst black: 70,000,000,000,000,000
super saiyan rose black: 55,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
zamasu future: 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
trunks ssj2 ( BULLSHIT ) rage boost power up from hell: 45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000[/spoiler]

this is my best list its long still trying to figure out how to make it sorter what do you guys think

Wrong thread.

[Chiki]

Anyone else think the resistance army and Mai are god level? They were too strong for Zamasu to handle with their smoke grenades and made them flee, kinda like how Jiraiya made Itachi and Kisame flee in Naruto. Zamasu tanked a Final Flash from SS2 Trunks and a sword stab but completely flipped out when attacked by the smoke grenade. Also Mai tanked a ki blast from Black which would have easily obliterated powerhouses like Kid Buu, so she could have easily taken out Dabura or Cell if they reappeared.

Yajirobe also speed blitzed Black and Zamasu by snatching Goku and Trunks from them without them seeing. A pretty insane feat. Hes probably faster than Tokitobashi Hit. I'd put him around Whis level.

The resistance army and Yajirobe together could easily take out Goku, Vegeta and Trunks from these feats.

[DBZ Macky]

Anyone else think the resistance army and Mai are god level? They were too strong for Zamasu to handle with their smoke grenades and made them flee

Mai is not God level, the grenade has a HUGE multiplier, that's the obvious reason, or else she would just go and punch Zamasu in the face
Seriously though, maybe the Grenades really are powerful, If Gero can create 'droids stronger than Freeza then why not Bulma?

kinda like how Jiraiya made Itachi and Kisame flee in Naruto.

Wait, wasn't he strong enough to fight a bit with Pein anyways? Itachi could still win but it would indeed be troublesome for him if Jiraiya went all out, not to mention that their fight could attract the other villagers' attention and possible reinforcements could give them trouble.

Zamasu tanked a Final Flash from SS2 Trunks and a sword stab but completely flipped out when attacked by the smoke grenade.

I think Trunks was capable of killing him. Zamasu is really Buu arc SS3 tier IMO but his immortality HAX are OP.

Also Mai tanked a ki blast from Black which would have easily obliterated powerhouses like Kid Buu, so she could have easily taken out Dabura or Cell if they reappeared.

The ki blast didn't exactly hit her, she was only somewhat caught in its blast radius. It could have been that she was just about to die but was saved by the resistance. Kinda like how Obito got saved by Madara.

Yajirobe also speed blitzed Black and Zamasu by snatching Goku and Trunks from them without them seeing. A pretty insane feat. Hes probably faster than Tokitobashi Hit. I'd put him around Whis level.

Yajirobe knows Choji's technique. His version gives him insane speed (On par with Hit but not Whis).

The resistance army and Yajirobe together could easily take out Goku, Vegeta and Trunks from these feats.

Yajirobe could REALLY take Black and Zamasu out though if anyone grew a brain and realised that if Tenshinhan learnt the Mafuba in a day or so, then even Yajirobe could (probably).

I can't be the only one who wants Dragon Ball Super to reintroduce the Mafuba...

[Bullza]

Well, when Krillin commented on that, Vegeta was sat on the floor and Cabba was preparing to fire a ki blast. Only he used high-speed movements before. I think they can't keep up with the movements but can understand what is happening most of the times.

I had a look in the Dragon Ball manga to see if I could find any similar comments or them commenting on other characters speed. Yamcha seemed to be able to see SSJ Goku give Android 19 a beating. Tien seemed to be able to SSJ Vegeta fighting Android 18 and Krillin arguably seemed to be able to see ASSJ Vegeta fighting Cell (both forms) and when Goku was fighting Cell he said they were really fast but he was still looking in the direction they were fighting in unlike Mr Satan and the ZTV announcer.

Likewise in the Super manga when Goku was fighting Botamo both Tien and Krillin said they couldn't see Goku's movements when he was hitting Botamo. During Goku vs Frost, Roshi said he couldn't see the movements of their hands and then shortly after Krillin and Roshi said they'd disappeared and couldn't keep up.

The Universe 6 Kaioshin seemed to be able to see Goku vs Assault Frost, though I think they're supposed to have amazing eyesight anyway.

So either Base Goku and Frost were fighting at a higher level than that of SSJ Goku and Cell like how it would be in the anime or....there's some huge inconsistencies with the Super manga because Base Goku was severely holding back against Botamo and Frost and Tien and Krillin still couldn't see his movements.

Vados also did compliment Goku's speed too during the Botamo fight too.

[HeroR]

Well, when Krillin commented on that, Vegeta was sat on the floor and Cabba was preparing to fire a ki blast. Only he used high-speed movements before. I think they can't keep up with the movements but can understand what is happening most of the times.

I had a look in the Dragon Ball manga to see if I could find any similar comments or them commenting on other characters speed. Yamcha seemed to be able to see SSJ Goku give Android 19 a beating. Tien seemed to be able to SSJ Vegeta fighting Android 18 and Krillin arguably seemed to be able to see ASSJ Vegeta fighting Cell (both forms) and when Goku was fighting Cell he said they were really fast but he was still looking in the direction they were fighting in unlike Mr Satan and the ZTV announcer.

Likewise in the Super manga when Goku was fighting Botamo both Tien and Krillin said they couldn't see Goku's movements when he was hitting Botamo. During Goku vs Frost, Roshi said he couldn't see the movements of their hands and then shortly after Krillin and Roshi said they'd disappeared and couldn't keep up.

The Universe 6 Kaioshin seemed to be able to see Goku vs Assault Frost, though I think they're supposed to have amazing eyesight anyway.

So either Base Goku and Frost were fighting at a higher level than that of SSJ Goku and Cell like how it would be in the anime or....there's some huge inconsistencies with the Super manga because Base Goku was severely holding back against Botamo and Frost and Tien and Krillin still couldn't see his movements.

Vados also did compliment Goku's speed too during the Botamo fight too.

That isn't a good rule of thumb. What characters tend to see and not to see in battle is never consistence.

[Bullza]

That isn't a good rule of thumb. What characters tend to see and not to see in battle is never consistence.

It's not the most consistent thing in the series but I don't think it should just be waved off and ignored either.

There were multiple comments made by the weaker characters like Roshi, Tien and Krillin that suggested they could not keep up with Base Goku's speed and Vados said he was fast. Vados and the other Gods though were able to keep up with all these battles though as they should so there's consistency in that regard.

It does not make sense though if they're at regular levels because people like Tien, Krillin and Yamcha have been able to keep up with characters vastly more powerful than that. They've fought people more powerful than that.

[brett wheeler]

tell me what you guys think
[spoiler]saiyan sega

base goku: 450
piccolo: 430
radits: 1,200-1,500
enraged gohan: 3,000 plus
gohan normal: 1-4
Kuririn: 240
yamcha: 230
tien: 320

a year later

gohan: 2,000
piccolo: 2,500
Kuririn: 1,800
yamcha: 1,300
tien: 1,900
nappa: 4,000-5,000
goku: 8,500
vegeta: 12,000-18,000
goku kaioken:12,750
goku kaioken*2: 17,000
goku kaioken*3: 25,500
goku kaioken*4: 34,000
vegeta galick gun: 26,000

frieza sega

Kuririn post visual training: 2,200
gohan post zenkia: 3,500
frieza soldier: 200-2,000
nemekian soldiers: 4,000
dadoria: 26,000
zarbon first form: 27,000
ciu: 18,000
vegeta post zenkia: 28,000
zarbon true form: 30,000
vegeta post second zenkia: 32,000
Kuririn guru awakening: 13,000
gohan guru awakening: 18,000
guldo: 13,000
recoom: 42,000
burter: 42,000
jiece: 42,000
goku post training: 120,000
captian ginyu: 120,000
goku kaioken: 180,000
ginyu goku body: 20,000 and rising
vegeta post zenkia sleep deprived: 290,000
gohan post zenkia: 25,000
goku ginyu body: 1,000 and weakening
vegeta full power fully rested:520,000
gohan zenkia agian: 30,000
frieza 1st form: 530,000
frieza 2nd form: 1,500,000
gohan enraged: 900,000
piccolo: 1,700,000
gohan zenkia: 80,000
frieza 3rd form: 2,500,000
gohan rage boost maximum power: 2,300,000
frieza 4th form 1%: 2,700,000
vegeta zenkia: 2,600,000
goku zenkia: 3,000,000
frieza 50%: 60,000,000
goku kaioken*20: 60,000,000
frieza 100%: 120,000,000
goku ssj: 150,000,000

history of trunks

future gohan: 3,200,000
future gohan ssj 160,000,000
teen future trunks: 64,000
teen future trunks ssj: 3,200,000
andriod 17: 250,000,000
andriod 18: 240,000,000
future gohan post zenkia and training: 4,000,000
future gohan ssj post zenkia and training: 200,000,000
future teen trunks post zenkia and training: 600,000
future teen trunks ssj post zenkia and training: 30,000,000
future teen trunks ssj post zenkia and traing enraged: 80,000,000
future trunks time skip: 3,000,000
future trunks ssj time skip: 150,000,000

future trunks arc

future trunks post zenkia: 3,500,000
future trunks ssj post zenkia 175,000,000
mecha frieza: 170,000,000
king cold: 100,000,000
vegeta post training: 3,200,000
gohan post slight training: 120,000
Kuririn post training: 80,000
yamcha: 50,000
chiotzu: 20,000
tien: 100,000
goku training in space: 4,500,000
goku ssj training in space: 225,000,000

andriod arc

gohan after training: 2,500,000
piccolo restrained: 90,000,000
Kuririn post training: 800,000
yamcha post training: 300,000
tien post training: 1,200,000
goku full power 5,000,000
goku ssj full power: 250,000,000
andriod 19: 100,000,000
andriod 19: kamehameha absoarbed: 170,000,000
andriod 20: 200,000,000
goku heart virus: 2,500,000 and decreasing
goku ssj heart virus: 125,000,000 and decreasing
vegeta: 4,500,000
vegeta ssj: 225,000,000
piccolo full power: 220,000,000
andriod 20 ki absoarbed: 210,000,000
future trunks: 4,500,000
future trunks ssj: 225,000,000
andriod 18: 430,000,000
andriod 17: 440,000,000
andriod 16: 600,000,000
goku post zenkia: 6,000,000
goku ssj zenkia: 300,000,000
piccolo fused with kami: 440,000,000
cell initial: 350,000,000
cell post absorbed people: 620,000,000
2nd form cell: 1,000,000,000
vegeta post rosat: 20,000,000
vegeta ssj post rosat: 1,000,000,000
vegeta ssj 2nd grade: 1,500,000,000
trunks post rosat: 15,000,000
trunks ssj post rosat: 750,000,000
trunks ssj 2nd grade: 1,125,000,000
trunks ssj 3rd grade: 5,625,000,000
perfect cell vs vegeta: 2,000,000,000
perfect cell vs trunks: 5,000,000
goku post rosat: 70,000,000
goku ssj post rosat: 3,500,000,000
gohan post rosat: 80,000,000
gohan ssj post rosat: 4,000,000,000
cell vs goku: 4,000,000,000
goku maximum power over limits vs cell 3,900,000,000
cell vs gohan 4,500,000,000
gohan ssj2: 8,000,000,000
cell full power: 6,500,000,000
super perfect cell: 9,000,000,000
vegeta ssj post training and enraged: 2,000,000,000
gohan ssj2 injured final battle: 4,500,000,000
gohan ssj2 family kamehameha: 8,500,000,000
gohan ssj2 hidden potential slightly unleashed family kamehameha: 10,000,000,000

buu sega

gohan: 40,000,000
gohan ssj: 2,000,000,000
gohan ssj2: 4,000,000,000
videl: 40
hurcule: 20
goten: 2,500,000
goten ssj: 125,000,000
trunks: 3,000,000
trunks ssj: 150,000,000
vegeta: 70,000,000
vegeta ssj: 3,500,000,000
videl post flight training: 70
goten post training 3,500,000
goten ssj post training:175,000,000
trunks post training: 4,000,000
trunks ssj post training: 200,000,000
gohan post training 45,000,000
gohan ssj post training: 2,250,000,000
gohan ssj2 post training: 4,500,000,000
spopavitch: 60 and increasing
yamu: 50
piu piu: 6,000,000
yokon: 90,000,000
goku: 90,000,000
goku ssj: 4,500,000,000
goku ssj2: 9,000,000,000
majin vegeta ssj2 :9,000,000,000
gahan ssj2 enraged: 8,000,000,000
majin buu: 20,000,000,000
kaioshin 400,000,000
vegeta final atonement: 18,000,000,000
goku ssj3: 36,000,000,000
goten & trunks fusion state: 3,500,000
fatenks: 2,000
skinnetenks: 200
gotenks: 700,000,000
gotenks ssj: 35,000,000,000
super buu: 150,000,000,000
goten & trunks post rosat 4,500,000
gotenks: 800,000,000
gotenks ssj: 40,000,000,000
gotenks ssj3: 160,000,000,000 immense strain and power decreasing
super buu enraged: 160,000,000,000
ultimate gohan: 200,000,000,000
buutenks: 210,000,000,000
buuhan: 300,000,000,000
vegeta zenkai: 75,000,000
vegito: 250,000,000,000
ssj vegito:12,500,000,000,000
kid buu: 35,000,000,000
super genkidama: 100,000,000,000

bog sega

goku: 110,000,000
goku ssj: 5,500,000,000
goku ssj2: 11,000,000,000
goku ssj3: 44,000,000,000
beerus supressed far less than 1% 15,000,000,000,000
vegeta 95,000,000
vegeta ssj: 4,750,000,000
vegeta ssj2: 9,500,000,000
weakened ultimate gohan 70,000,000,000
weaker gotenks 750,000,000
weaker ssj gotenks: 37,500,000,000
enraged vegeta ssj2: 900,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 10%: 4,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku zenkia: 120,000,000
goku ssj zenkia: 6,000,000,000
goku ssg initial 40%: 400,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg 60%: 8,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 30%: 9,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg 70%: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 40%: 15,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg 90%: 25,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 60%: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg 100%: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 70%: 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssj crimson flame: 28,000,000,000,000,000,000,000-100,000,000,000,000 fluctuating as ssg is merging with him
goku final punch ssg evolved: 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

rof sega

gohan weakened: 4,000,000
gohan releasing a little mystic power: 4,000,000,000
gohan using ssj to release all mystic power: 200,000,000,000
tagoma: 180,000,000,000
tagoma ginyu releasing hidden potential: 190,000,000,000
piccolo: 9,500,000,000
gotenks: 750,000,000
gotenks ssj: 37,500,000,000
goten & trunks: 3,500,000
goku & vegeta: 11,000,000,000,000
frieza 1st form: 530,000,000,000
frieza 4th form: 7,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssb: 45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
golden frieza: 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
golden frieza tired: 20,000,00,000,000,000,000,000
beerus 100%: 90,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
whis: 180,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

u6 arc

goku & vegeta post rosat: 13,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssj: 650,000,000,000,000
botomo: 1,000,000,000,000 very high defense
frost first form: 2,000,000,000,000
frost 3rd form: 15,000,000,000,000
frost 4th form: 200,000,000,000,000
piccolo post ( bulshit ) power up: 16,000,000,000,000
frost 4th form tired: 18,000,000,000,000
cabba: 12,000,000,000,000
cabba ssj: 600,000,000,000,000
hit taking it easy: 14,000,000,000,000
hit vs vegeta: 45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg: 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssb: 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
hit first improvement: 55,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
hit second improvement: 60,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssb kaioken: 75,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssb kaioken*10: 500,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
hit final improvement: 510,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
champa: 85,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
vados: 190,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
hit tired improvements gone: 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
zeno gaurds: 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
zeno: 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or just omnipotent

black sega

trunks: 52,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta: 13,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssj: 650,000,000,000,000
goku & vegeta ssj2: 1,300,000,000,000,000
goku ssj3: 5,200,000,000,000,000
trunks ssj: 2,600,000,000,000,000
trunks ssj2: 5,200,000,000,000,000
goku black initial: 7,000,000,000,000,000
goku ssg: 40,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
goku black suppressed agianst goku and suppressed because time distortion: 1,400,000,000,000,000
kid trunks & goten: 3,000,000,000
zamasu first encounter: 1,000,000,000,000,000
vegeta ssb suppressed against trunks: 7,000,000,000,000,000
black goku ssj2 power absorbed: 50,000,000,000,000,000
vegeta suppressed agianst black: 70,000,000,000,000,000
super saiyan rose black: 55,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
zamasu future: 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
trunks ssj2 ( BULLSHIT ) rage boost power up from hell: 45,000,000,000,000,000,000,000[/spoiler]

this is my best list its long still trying to figure out how to make it sorter what do you guys think

Wrong thread.

really but this is the powe level thread sorry If this is the wrong thread it just didnt seem like it was lol sorry