The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:49 pm

Steven Bloodriver wrote:1) Super Saiyan Goku (Frieza Saga) vs. A hypothetical Super Saiyan Turles.

2) Super Saiyan Future Gohan (final battle against Future Androids 17 and 18) vs. Mecha Frieza.

3) Super Saiyan Future Trunks (Trunks Saga) vs. Fifth Form Cooler.

4) Super Saiyan Adult Gohan (beginning of the Majin Buu Saga) vs. Cell Junior.

5) Super Saiyan 3 Majin Vegeta vs. Kid Buu.

6) Legendary Super Saiyan 3 Broly vs. Buunemba (if Super Buu had absorbed Super Janemba).

7) Super Saiyan 4 GT Gohan vs. Gohan (Resurrection F).
- Tullece doesn't even break the million mark on his own, whereas Goku's already at 3 million. Goku smashes his look-a-like without any trouble.
- The two are probably around the same level of power, though I'd give a slim advantage to Gohan. On the other hand (no pun intended), Freeza's definitely gonna do his best to take advantage of that missing arm. Close call, but I'd say Freeza wins.
- Super Coola probably isn't much stronger than his brother's cyborg incarnation, and Trunks dices him up just as easily.
- Gohan's lost a lot of power, but I'd still say he has a distinct power advantage over the Cell Juniors. Gohan wins without too much trouble.
- Unless Vegeta ends it quickly, Boo's just gonna wear him down, just like what happened with Goku.
- Assuming we're talking about Movie 10 Broli spontaneously turning Super Saiyan, he ends up a smidge stronger than Goku, but waaaaaayyyyyy weaker than Evil Boo or Janemba alone. The two combined easily fodderize Broli.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:42 am

LightBing wrote: Round 2:
I have Taopaipai a bit above Grandpa Gohan. He loses due to soloing the tournament.
Hold on a minute. How is Gohan weaker than Tao Pai Pai if he gave Goku more of a fight?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by LightBing » Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:19 am

ZombieVito wrote:
LightBing wrote: Round 2:
I have Taopaipai a bit above Grandpa Gohan. He loses due to soloing the tournament.
Hold on a minute. How is Gohan weaker than Tao Pai Pai if he gave Goku more of a fight?
That's debatable. Overall both fight's are similar, Goku always with the upper hand and his opponents get only a good hit or two in. What makes the difference to me is that in both fight's Goku tanks some attacks, purposely.
Against Gohan he tanks a full powered kick and doesn't even move. Against Tao Pai Pai, he tanks a rush of attacks and suffers perceivable damage. The one who actually injures Goku was Tao Pai Pai, that puts him ahead of Gohan to me.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DBZ Macky » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:07 pm

LightBing wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
LightBing wrote: Round 2:
I have Taopaipai a bit above Grandpa Gohan. He loses due to soloing the tournament.
Hold on a minute. How is Gohan weaker than Tao Pai Pai if he gave Goku more of a fight?
That's debatable. Overall both fight's are similar, Goku always with the upper hand and his opponents get only a good hit or two in. What makes the difference to me is that in both fight's Goku tanks some attacks, purposely.
Against Gohan he tanks a full powered kick and doesn't even move. Against Tao Pai Pai, he tanks a rush of attacks and suffers perceivable damage. The one who actually injures Goku was Tao Pai Pai, that puts him ahead of Gohan to me.
Add to that the fact that Gohan knew Goku's fighting style almost perfectly, so it wouldn't matter much if Goku had a big power advantage either. Still IMO Gohan > Tao if only by a little margin. Well, we know that Dodonpa > Kamehameha so maybe Gohan > Tao but Tao's Dodonpa > Gohan's Kamehameha?
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by nickzambuto » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:14 pm

I like to view the humans in three distinct tiers. In ascending order of strength;

The disciples-
Ox-King
Gohan
Taopaipai

The masters-
Muten Roshi
Tsuru-sennin
Mutaito

And the next generation:
Krillin
Yamcha
Tenshinhan

Ox-King is the most interesting. Yes, I do like to think of him as in the same league with Gohan and Tao. Toriyama stated that he's the type of guy who relies on power more than techniques, and that's why he was apparently able to "wrestle" with Gohan back in their youth. Tao and Gohan's speed and skills would give them the advantage ultimately, but the King of Fire Mountain has some outright amazing resilience. The anime shows him performing incredible feats like decapitating multiple small mountains in a row by throwing his ax, and picking up an enormous boulder and just casually hurling it into the sky to kill a pterodactyl for lunch. Although his fight with Goku indicates that his speed might just be so incredibly low that he has no chance of even perceiving guys like Gohan and Tao, Dragon Ball isn't really 100% consistent. Remember, he's the guy who trained Chi-Chi, and she was definitely quick. I dunno, weak answer I know, but I personally can definitely picture Gyumao's reflexes vastly surpassing his bulky physical movement speed, and I even think his brawn surpasses all other humans who haven't trained with Kami to the extent of having physical strength on par with the Demon King. So if he were to fight one of his peers like Gohan or Tao seriously, I imagine him getting blitzed for awhile with precision martial arts strikes, but tanking it all and getting mad enough to eventually get them in his grasp and pound them.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by nickzambuto » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:17 pm

DBZ Macky wrote:
LightBing wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:
Hold on a minute. How is Gohan weaker than Tao Pai Pai if he gave Goku more of a fight?
That's debatable. Overall both fight's are similar, Goku always with the upper hand and his opponents get only a good hit or two in. What makes the difference to me is that in both fight's Goku tanks some attacks, purposely.
Against Gohan he tanks a full powered kick and doesn't even move. Against Tao Pai Pai, he tanks a rush of attacks and suffers perceivable damage. The one who actually injures Goku was Tao Pai Pai, that puts him ahead of Gohan to me.
Add to that the fact that Gohan knew Goku's fighting style almost perfectly, so it wouldn't matter much if Goku had a big power advantage either. Still IMO Gohan > Tao if only by a little margin. Well, we know that Dodonpa > Kamehameha so maybe Gohan > Tao but Tao's Dodonpa > Gohan's Kamehameha?
The whole reason Goku took an advantage was because he was able to surprise Gohan with techniques like the Zanzouken and Kamehameha. Gohan hadn't trained Goku in years, by that point Goku had picked up moves from Muten Roshi, Karin, surpassed a Crane Master, fought in the Tenkaichi Budokai, etc. I don't think Gohan had a large advantage with knowledge, if anything his preconceptions of Goku resulted in him getting caught off guard.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:22 pm

1) A hypothetical Super Saiyan 4 Goku (from Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection F), Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta (Shadow Dragon Saga), and Super Saiyan 4 GT Gohan (Assault on the Hell Gate Saga) vs. Golden Great Ape Baby Vegeta, Super 17 (right after he had been born and before he had absorbed any energy), and Syn Shenron.

2) A hypothetical Super Saiyan God GT Goku (Super 17 Saga), a hypothetical Super Saiyan God GT Vegeta (Super 17 Saga), and Super Saiyan God Teen Gohan (Cell Games) vs. Golden Frieza, Super Perfect Cell, and Kid Buu (Super Janemba Absorbed).

3) Super Saiyan Future Goku (if he had survived through the Heart Virus and was given a Zenkai), Super Saiyan Future Vegeta (If he had survived the battle against Future Android 17 and was given a Zenkai), and Super Saiyan Future Gohan (before he was given his facial scars and lost his arm) vs. Future Android 17.

4) GT Kid Goku (Super 17 Saga), a hypothetical GT Kid Vegeta (Super 17 Saga), and a hypothetical GT Kid Gohan (Assault on the Hell Gate Saga) vs. Lucifer (the main threat in Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle), Chilled (First Form), and Turles (at the time when he first confronted Gohan and Piccolo).

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by nickzambuto » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:02 pm

Tenkaichi Champions vs Disciples of Legends

Mr. Satan
King Chappa
Devil Man


Vs

Ox-King
Gohan
Taopaipai

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:17 pm

nickzambuto wrote:Tenkaichi Champions vs Disciples of Legends

Mr. Satan
King Chappa
Devil Man


Vs

Ox-King
Gohan
Taopaipai
1) The OX-King would pretty much effortlessly defeat Hercule.

2) Grandpa Gohan would destroy King Chappa.

3) Spike takes this.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:36 pm

nickzambuto wrote:Ox-King, Mr. Satan, Namu, King Chappa, and Tsuru-sennin all team up to fight in Baba's Tournament. What happens?

(I was going to use Taopaipai, but his weaker brother might make things more fair.)

Round 2: Taopaipai enters Baba's Tournament alone. What happens?
  • Vs Dracula man, anyone can knock him out, except maybe satan. However, King chappa gets his blood sucked, and gets out. Meanwhile, Gyumao knocks him out with a straight punch.
    Vs invisible man, I bet Tsuru senin can do someting
    Vs The Mummy , Tsuru senin alone can win with difficulty
    Vs Akkuman, everyone dies but mr satan accidentally knocks him out of the battlefield.
    Vs Gohan, satan trips and falls down on gohan, taking both of them ring out, with satan falling down later, and winning.
  • He dies to akkuman. However, if he is not allowed to use his death beam, he clears.
ZombieVito wrote:
LightBing wrote: Round 2:
I have Taopaipai a bit above Grandpa Gohan. He loses due to soloing the tournament.
Hold on a minute. How is Gohan weaker than Tao Pai Pai if he gave Goku more of a fight?
Gohan knows goku better than goku knows himself, and gohan never was a match for goku. He gave up as soon as the only weakness was removed, and was manhandling goku mostly due to his tail weakness.
I am not even including the fact that Goku was going all out for the kill against Tao Pai Pai.

nickzambuto wrote:Tenkaichi Champions vs Disciples of Legends

Mr. Satan
King Chappa
Devil Man


Vs

Ox-King
Gohan
Taopaipai
Is it a death match? Because akkuman can solo all of them with his beam.

In a fight, Tao pai pai is the strongest here, by far.
Satan gets finger flicked by either of them, Chappa and akkuman, the rivals in power, are a match for gohan combined, but not alone, and tao pai pai can solo it simply.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by nickzambuto » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:13 am

apex_pretador wrote:
nickzambuto wrote:Ox-King, Mr. Satan, Namu, King Chappa, and Tsuru-sennin all team up to fight in Baba's Tournament. What happens?

(I was going to use Taopaipai, but his weaker brother might make things more fair.)

Round 2: Taopaipai enters Baba's Tournament alone. What happens?
  • Vs Dracula man, anyone can knock him out, except maybe satan. However, King chappa gets his blood sucked, and gets out. Meanwhile, Gyumao knocks him out with a straight punch.
    Vs invisible man, I bet Tsuru senin can do someting
    Vs The Mummy , Tsuru senin alone can win with difficulty
    Vs Akkuman, everyone dies but mr satan accidentally knocks him out of the battlefield.
    Vs Gohan, satan trips and falls down on gohan, taking both of them ring out, with satan falling down later, and winning.
  • He dies to akkuman. However, if he is not allowed to use his death beam, he clears.
ZombieVito wrote:
LightBing wrote: Round 2:
I have Taopaipai a bit above Grandpa Gohan. He loses due to soloing the tournament.
Hold on a minute. How is Gohan weaker than Tao Pai Pai if he gave Goku more of a fight?
Gohan knows goku better than goku knows himself, and gohan never was a match for goku. He gave up as soon as the only weakness was removed, and was manhandling goku mostly due to his tail weakness.
I am not even including the fact that Goku was going all out for the kill against Tao Pai Pai.

nickzambuto wrote:Tenkaichi Champions vs Disciples of Legends

Mr. Satan
King Chappa
Devil Man


Vs

Ox-King
Gohan
Taopaipai
Is it a death match? Because akkuman can solo all of them with his beam.

In a fight, Tao pai pai is the strongest here, by far.
Satan gets finger flicked by either of them, Chappa and akkuman, the rivals in power, are a match for gohan combined, but not alone, and tao pai pai can solo it simply.
Thank you for the detailed reply.

However, I still don't agree with the idea of Gohan only fighting Goku due to knowing everything about him. That might have been the case in the beginning, and true to that, Gohan was taking the upperhand initially and countering Goku most of the time in hand-to-hand. However, when Goku took the advantage, it was by surprising Gohan with new techniques like the Zanzouken and the Kamehameha, techniques that Gohan was caught completely off guard by Goku knowing. It's due to that surprise that Goku took the advantage in the first place. So if anything, his knowledge of Goku provided just as much advantage as disadvantage. Also, on the topic of Goku fighting Tao in a death match, Goku didn't develop his whole separation of "tournament strength" and "fighting strength" thing until the 22nd Budokai. During the RRA arc he was still completely ignorant to the concept and weight of "death", he murdered RRA soldiers left and right, and was outright threatening to kill Gohan during their fight if he didn't give up.

So although Gohan ultimately admitted that Goku was way too powerful for him, the fact that he still kept up better than Taopaipai makes me put Gohan slightly above the assassin.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:23 am

nickzambuto wrote:Tenkaichi Champions vs Disciples of Legends

Mr. Satan
King Chappa
Devil Man


Vs

Ox-King
Gohan
Taopaipai
Over all, the collective power and skill advantage of the Disciples puts them at a huge advantage. Chappa's the only one among the Champs who could hope to rival Taopaipai or Gohan, and he's at a disadvantage due to the fact that he doesn't seem to be able to use Ki. Devil-man is clearly inferior to the Crane and Turtle disciples. Ox King and Mr. Satan are the weakest members of their respective teams, but Ox King is leagues beyond Mr. Satan. While the Champions can win if they get lucky with Devil-man's Devilmite Beam, the odds are overwhelmingly in the Disciples' favor.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by nickzambuto » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:58 am

Alternate 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai:

Contestants: Gohan, Taopaipai, Ox-King, King Chappa, Karin, Devil Man, Tsuru-Sennin, prime Chi-Chi.

Feel free to bracket the tournament however you want for the most interesting matches. Who wins 500,000 Zeni?!

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:39 pm

nickzambuto wrote:Alternate 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai:

Contestants: Gohan, Taopaipai, Ox-King, King Chappa, Karin, Devil Man, Tsuru-Sennin, prime Chi-Chi.

Feel free to bracket the tournament however you want for the most interesting matches. Who wins 500,000 Zeni?!
Using a Random Tournament Bracket Generator, let's start up the Alternate 22nd Tenka'ichi Budokai!!!

Round 1: Tao-Pai-Pai vs Karin
Tao-Pai-Pai immediately goes on the offensive, looking to end the match quickly. To his surprise, the cat sage is easily capable of keeping up with his speed and counters all of his blows, all the while making smart remarks at the assassin. Agitated, Tao-Pai-Pai unleashes his signature Dodon-Pa technique in an effort to shut the cat up. Karin, seeing the danger to the audience, catches the blast in his hands, and quickly kicks the bewildered Tao-Pai-Pai out of bounds.

Round 2: Son Gohan vs The Ox King
The two rivals briefly pause to size each other up, until FLASH, they've seemingly vanished into thin air and are now sparring in the middle of the ring, pummeling each other with flurry of endless blows. As the fight goes on, the disparity in their abilities makes itself apparent. Gohan's superior speed and skill gives him an edge in hand-to-hand combat. However, what the massive brute lacks in grace and agility, he makes up for in strength and endurance. Eventually the elderly Gohan begins to tire and slow, and Ox King seizes his opportunity and lands a crushing blow against his opponent. Backed against a wall, Gohan charges his Ki into his palms and unleashes a Kamehameha and blasts his rival out of the ring.

Round 3: King Chappa vs The Crane Hermit
King Chappa begins the match by charging his opponent with a vicious flurry of blows, which the elderly man easily dodges, mockingly asking how he ever became a Budokai champion. This enrages Chappa and he unleashes his famous Hasshu-ken, delivering blow after blow to his opponent and sending him flying. Before the match can be called in a ring-out, The Crane Hermit levitates himself away and back into the ring. This time it is the Crane Hermit on the offensive, and Chappa can barely keep up as the old man pummels him with blow after blow, before finally succumbing to his injuries and falling unconscious. Crane Hermit, bitter old man that he is, can't help but to break his leg as an extra insult, earning him the dubious honor of the crowd unfavorite.

Round 4: Akkuman vs Chi-Chi
Akkuman quickly finds himself at a disadvantage against the surprisingly adept Chi-Chi and her ferocious fighting style. After being struck with a particularly strong punch to the jaw, the angry and desperate devil begins to prepare his signature attack, the Devilmite Beam. Before the announcer can disqualify him for his lethal tactics, he fires the beam of light at his opponent, to the horror of those watching. To everyone's surprise, the beam seems to have no effect on Chi-Chi, for her heart is exceptionally pure. Absolutely flabbergasted, Akkuman puts up no resistance when Chi-Chi jumps up and slams him into the ground outside of the ring.

Round 5: Karin vs Son Gohan
The battle begins with Gohan on the offensive, and Karin gracefully dancing out of his way. However, Gohan proves to be a quick study and begins to adapt to Karin's anticipatory fighting style, predicting the cat's movements and disguising his own moves through subterfuge. Using his Sui-ken technique, he makes it much harder for Karin to predict his movements. Karin quickly sees through this and begins to use his superior speed in order to out-maneuver the phony drunk. As Karin comes in close, Gohan uses his own special attack: The Janken! Using Paper to deflect Karin's attack, following up with Scissors to blind him, and finishing of with Rock to knock him out of bounds. The match ends with Karin satisfied with finding such a skilled opponent, and Gohan humbled, knowing the the Cat Sage had yet to use his full strength.

Round 6: Crane Hermit vs Chi-Chi
Chi-Chi immediately charges her elderly opponent, displaying her overwhelming strength and speed. The Crane Hermit is dismayed to find that he is outmatched in physical ability. Not one to give up, he fires a quick Dodon-Pa at point-blank range, catching Chi-Chi off-guard. The young woman has been severely injured, but is alive.

Final Round: Son Gohan vs Crane Hermit
Recognizing his eternal rival's student, Crane Hermit mocks and belittles Gohan, saying that he'll never walk again after he is done with him. Gohan, not willing to give his opponent the satisfaction, charges his opponent. The two find themselves evenly matched, and Gohan is too skilled and experienced to fall for any of Crane Hermit's dirty tactics. The fighting continues until the two, desperate to finish each other off, charge their respective Ki attacks. Crane hermit gloats that there's no way a Kamehameha can compete with the Dodon-Pa, while Gohan remains silent. As the two beams clash, Crane Hermit's one easily pushes the other back and the yellow ray punches straight through Gohan!... or rather, his after-image. Crane Hermit, bewildered by these turn-of-events, turns around just in time to see a brilliant blue beam of energy just before it crashes into him, knocking him unconscious and out of bounds.

Gohan is the victor!
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by nickzambuto » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:54 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:
nickzambuto wrote:Alternate 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai:

Contestants: Gohan, Taopaipai, Ox-King, King Chappa, Karin, Devil Man, Tsuru-Sennin, prime Chi-Chi.

Feel free to bracket the tournament however you want for the most interesting matches. Who wins 500,000 Zeni?!
Using a Random Tournament Bracket Generator, let's start up the Alternate 22nd Tenka'ichi Budokai!!!
Beautiful! Very fun and appreciated descriptions! Although I'm not sure if I agree 100% with Gohan beating Karin and Crane beating Chi-Chi, but I can appreciate your creativity.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by LightBing » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:50 pm

nickzambuto wrote:
DanielSSJ wrote:
nickzambuto wrote:Alternate 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai:

Contestants: Gohan, Taopaipai, Ox-King, King Chappa, Karin, Devil Man, Tsuru-Sennin, prime Chi-Chi.

Feel free to bracket the tournament however you want for the most interesting matches. Who wins 500,000 Zeni?!
Using a Random Tournament Bracket Generator, let's start up the Alternate 22nd Tenka'ichi Budokai!!!
Beautiful! Very fun and appreciated descriptions! Although I'm not sure if I agree 100% with Gohan beating Karin and Crane beating Chi-Chi, but I can appreciate your creativity.
I'll answer it properly tomorrow, no time right now. Just wanted to say quickly that Karin is stronger than the Goku who defeated Gohan, therefore he would destroy Gohan. Here's a line from the Piccolo Daimo arc to support this:

[spoiler]Chapter: 150, P13.2-4
Context: Goku asks Karin to train him more
Karin: “Unfortunately…There’s nothing more for me to teach you…[ ] Yeah…I understand how you feel, but…You’ve already acquired enough power to surpass even me”…
Note: Previously, I had mistakenly put that Goku had almost gotten more power than Karin, due to carelessly mistaking mou sude ni/"already" for mou sugu ni/"almost"/"very soon". Sorry about that.[/spoiler]

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:39 pm

LightBing wrote:I'll answer it properly tomorrow, no time right now. Just wanted to say quickly that Karin is stronger than the Goku who defeated Gohan, therefore he would destroy Gohan. Here's a line from the Piccolo Daimo arc to support this:

[spoiler]Chapter: 150, P13.2-4
Context: Goku asks Karin to train him more
Karin: “Unfortunately…There’s nothing more for me to teach you…[ ] Yeah…I understand how you feel, but…You’ve already acquired enough power to surpass even me”…
Note: Previously, I had mistakenly put that Goku had almost gotten more power than Karin, due to carelessly mistaking mou sude ni/"already" for mou sugu ni/"almost"/"very soon". Sorry about that.[/spoiler]
I am aware of this, and I make note of it here.
The match ends with Karin satisfied with finding such a skilled opponent, and Gohan humbled, knowing the the Cat Sage had yet to use his full strength.
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by MaxZ » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:22 pm

ZombieVito wrote:Majin Boo vs First Form Freeza.

Kuririn implied in the RoF arc that having Boo with them will make the situation "Okay". Can Boo beat this trained Freeza? Or was Kuririn mistaken?
not a chance.

Gohan is far stronger than Buu, and Frieza hands him his ass.

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by nickzambuto » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:07 pm

Demon King Piccolo stands still and tries to tank Roshi's MAX Power Kamehameha in his buff form.

What happens?

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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

Post by Krillin1994 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:42 pm

Kibitokai vs Kid buu

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