Unpopular DB opinions

[John Doe]

Goku's marriage to ChiChi is one of the dumbest plot twists in DB.
It makes no sense whatsoever. Goku and ChiChi haven't seen each other in 6 years + 8 months by the time they meet again at the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament. Who in their right mind would marry someone they haven't seen in almost 7 years? I know that DB has a lot of unrealistic stuff but Goku's marriage to ChiChi felt too forced and unnatural. And no, I'm not one of those fans who thinks that Goku should have married Bulma. I think that Goku should have stayed single. There was no point trying to make Goku look more "human" only to have him abandon his wife and kid later for 7 freaking years. I would have preferred if Gohan and Goten were the result of a one-night stand just like Trunks was.

Goku and Chi-Chi are both idiots who are raised in a mystical martial-arts world though.

Who would marry someone they haven't seen in seven years? The daughter of a demon ox king who promised her hand to a little warrior boy who kicked her in the junk, I guess.

That's my biggest problem with it. It's not a realistic relationship. I mean we all know that Akira Toriyama isn't a good writer but Goku x ChiChi pairing is in my opinion one of the worst written plot twists in DB.
1. They were kids when ChiChi "fell in love" with Goku. If they were at least 16+ years old I could buy it. But what does a 12 year old girl know about love and marriage? Nothing, she's 12.
2. ChiChi isn't some poor peasant from some village in the middle of nowhere. She is the Ox-King's daughter. I simply can't believe that in almost 7 years nobody asked the Ox-King for permission to date/marry ChiChi. How is that possible?
3. Why didn't ChiChi appear at the 21st and/or the 22nd Martial Arts Tournaments if she was so interested in Goku? She literally appears out of nowhere at the 23rd Tournament and gets angry because... Goku doesn't remember her. WTF? Where has she been all these years?
4. Turning Goku into a "family guy" who now has a wife and a kid on the way was pretty pointless when in the very next story arc we are told that Goku is an alien from a barbaric warrior race who genocide entire civilizations for a living, and that Goku was sent to Earth to do just that and would have done it too if it wasn't for a lucky accident that gave him amnesia.

The point is that Goku isn't a human martial artist, there's nothing that compels him to settle-down-and-start-a-family. He is not like Krillin or Yamcha or Tenshinhan or anyone else. Even if Goku didn't know that he is a saiyan it doesn't change the biological fact that he is a saiyan.
The excuse that "Toriyama didn't plan ahead" doesn't work here since the Saiyan story arc began right after the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament.

I would have honestly preferred if Bulma was Gohan's mother due to a one-night stand with Goku right after the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament. It would have worked so much better in the long run. And don't even get me started about ChiChi turning into a crazy soccer mom.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Goku's marriage to ChiChi is one of the dumbest plot twists in DB.
It makes no sense whatsoever. Goku and ChiChi haven't seen each other in 6 years + 8 months by the time they meet again at the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament. Who in their right mind would marry someone they haven't seen in almost 7 years? I know that DB has a lot of unrealistic stuff but Goku's marriage to ChiChi felt too forced and unnatural. And no, I'm not one of those fans who thinks that Goku should have married Bulma. I think that Goku should have stayed single. There was no point trying to make Goku look more "human" only to have him abandon his wife and kid later for 7 freaking years. I would have preferred if Gohan and Goten were the result of a one-night stand just like Trunks was.

Goku and Chi-Chi are both idiots who are raised in a mystical martial-arts world though.

Who would marry someone they haven't seen in seven years? The daughter of a demon ox king who promised her hand to a little warrior boy who kicked her in the junk, I guess.

That's my biggest problem with it. It's not a realistic relationship. I mean we all know that Akira Toriyama isn't a good writer but Goku x ChiChi pairing is in my opinion one of the worst written plot twists in DB.
1. They were kids when ChiChi "fell in love" with Goku. If they were at least 16+ years old I could buy it. But what does a 12 year old girl know about love and marriage? Nothing, she's 12.
2. ChiChi isn't some poor peasant from some village in the middle of nowhere. She is the Ox-King's daughter. I simply can't believe that in almost 7 years nobody asked the Ox-King for permission to date/marry ChiChi. How is that possible?
3. Why didn't ChiChi appear at the 21st and/or the 22nd Martial Arts Tournaments if she was so interested in Goku? She literally appears out of nowhere at the 23rd Tournament and gets angry because... Goku doesn't remember her. WTF? Where has she been all these years?
4. Turning Goku into a "family guy" who now has a wife and a kid on the way was pretty pointless when in the very next story arc we are told that Goku is an alien from a barbaric warrior race who genocide entire civilizations for a living, and that Goku was sent to Earth to do just that and would have done it too if it wasn't for a lucky accident that gave him amnesia.

The point is that Goku isn't a human martial artist, there's nothing that compels him to settle-down-and-start-a-family. He is not like Krillin or Yamcha or Tenshinhan or anyone else. Even if Goku didn't know that he is a saiyan it doesn't change the biological fact that he is a saiyan.
The excuse that "Toriyama didn't plan ahead" doesn't work here since the Saiyan story arc began right after the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament.

I would have honestly preferred if Bulma was Gohan's mother due to a one-night stand with Goku right after the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament. It would have worked so much better in the long run. And don't even get me started about ChiChi turning into a crazy soccer mom.

You're forgetting the fact that this is an action-comedy, the character relationships aren't supposed to be realistic. Toriyama is a great comedy writer, and that's what he wrote.

[Cipher]

That's my biggest problem with it. It's not a realistic relationship. I mean we all know that Akira Toriyama isn't a good writer but Goku x ChiChi pairing is in my opinion one of the worst written plot twists in DB.

Toriyama's a great writer for the kind of work he does, but it's not a realistic story. Dragon Ball takes place in a complete fantasy world. One which, especially early in the series, is a pretty silly place.

Chi-Chi's marriage to Goku is both in-character for the two of them — Chi-Chi's literally grown up as a rural demonic monarch, and Goku has no idea what marriage is — and a comedy beat that's in-tone with the rest of the series.

Chi-Chi becoming an overbearing, education-minded tiger-mom is also definitely a joke. Like, in a good way. But it's a plausible character direction as well, in that she takes a naive approach to doing what she's "supposed" to do in a society she really has no experience with. First, she's supposed to get married. Then, since education is what defines success outside of their weird little martial-arts fantasy world, she's "supposed" to be an education-minded parent, but applies the same naive forcefulness to it she does with everything else.

2. ChiChi isn't some poor peasant from some village in the middle of nowhere. She is the Ox-King's daughter. I simply can't believe that in almost 7 years nobody asked the Ox-King for permission to date/marry ChiChi. How is that possible?

You want to ask your local demon king if you can date his daughter? Good luck. Poor Chi-Chi.

That, and both she and her father probably took the idea of promising her hand to Goku hilariously seriously.

[John Doe]

That's my biggest problem with it. It's not a realistic relationship. I mean we all know that Akira Toriyama isn't a good writer but Goku x ChiChi pairing is in my opinion one of the worst written plot twists in DB.

Toriyama's a great writer for the kind of work he does, but it's not a realistic story. Dragon Ball takes place in a complete fantasy world. One which, especially early in the series, is a pretty silly place.

Chi-Chi's marriage to Goku is both in-character for the two of them — Chi-Chi's literally grown up as a rural demonic monarch, and Goku has no idea what marriage is — and a comedy beat that's in-tone with the rest of the series.

DB stopped being a gag manga when Tao Pai Pai showed up and started murdering people in cold blood and the comedy definitely ended when Krillin got killed by Tamborine. That was long before the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

That's my biggest problem with it. It's not a realistic relationship. I mean we all know that Akira Toriyama isn't a good writer but Goku x ChiChi pairing is in my opinion one of the worst written plot twists in DB.

Toriyama's a great writer for the kind of work he does, but it's not a realistic story. Dragon Ball takes place in a complete fantasy world. One which, especially early in the series, is a pretty silly place.

Chi-Chi's marriage to Goku is both in-character for the two of them — Chi-Chi's literally grown up as a rural demonic monarch, and Goku has no idea what marriage is — and a comedy beat that's in-tone with the rest of the series.

DB stopped being a gag manga when Tao Pai Pai showed up and started murdering people in cold blood and the comedy definitely ended when Krillin got killed by Tamborine. That was long before the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament.

The genre doesn't just change like a light switch. Toriyama's style often changed depending on the mood he was in a the time.

[John Doe]

Toriyama's a great writer for the kind of work he does, but it's not a realistic story. Dragon Ball takes place in a complete fantasy world. One which, especially early in the series, is a pretty silly place.

Chi-Chi's marriage to Goku is both in-character for the two of them — Chi-Chi's literally grown up as a rural demonic monarch, and Goku has no idea what marriage is — and a comedy beat that's in-tone with the rest of the series.

DB stopped being a gag manga when Tao Pai Pai showed up and started murdering people in cold blood and the comedy definitely ended when Krillin got killed by Tamborine. That was long before the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament.

The genre doesn't just change like a light switch. Toriyama's style often changed depending on the mood he was in a the time.

Toriyama's style and mood did change but it's pretty much undeniable that the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament is not and was never meant to be "funny". The characters were all grown up, Piccolo Jr was a serious threat to everyone in the stadium, and Goku vs Piccolo Jr was one of the most violent fights in DB.

[Cipher]

Toriyama's style and mood did change but it's pretty much undeniable that the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament is not and was never meant to be "funny". The characters were all grown up, Piccolo Jr was a serious threat to everyone in the stadium, and Goku vs Piccolo Jr was one of the most violent fights in DB.

Toriyama makes no promises in his story lines. Most in Dragon Ball contain a mix of humorous and serious moments. The most you can say is that they tend not to interrupt each other and ruin the flow of rising action.

The beginning of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai does indeed contain light-hearted moments, of which the Chi-Chi revelation is one. Perhaps it's not so much as a laugh-out-loud gag as it is an amusing repurposing of an old plot point that's perfectly in line with the series.

At any rate, I find Chi-Chi's marriage to Goku to fit perfectly well within the series, regardless of how or when it's introduced. The Piccolo arcs don't suddenly mark a turning point after which the series is going to be entirely self-serious devoid of whimsical silliness. Like the best of Toriyama's writing choices, it's both amusing and befitting of the characters involved.

I might point out as well that even the climactic fight of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai contains some slightly more comedic beats, such as Goku telling God to step out of the ring because he doesn't want to lose the tournament (revealing to everyone's chagrin that Goku's still focusing on the tournament as a structured event instead of saving the world). But again, it's a great mix of everything Toriyama does well: It's chuckle-worthy, but it feels absolutely true to the character and serves to reinforce the drama at the same time. That scene is Dragon Ball in a microcosm — high-stakes, unflinching action and quirky, character-based humor that shouldn't be able to feed off each other, but somehow absolutely do.

Or at least it's Dragon Ball by way of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai and Boo arcs, which is why they're two of my favorite story lines in the series.

[ABED]

Toriyama's style and mood did change but it's pretty much undeniable that the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament is not and was never meant to be "funny". The characters were all grown up, Piccolo Jr was a serious threat to everyone in the stadium, and Goku vs Piccolo Jr was one of the most violent fights in DB.

It wasn't a gag manga, but there was still plenty of comedy.

[rereboy]

That's my biggest problem with it. It's not a realistic relationship.

Of course it's realistic, it's just not normal for a modern western person. Even today, there are lots of places where the norm is arranged marriages, which is even worse than what was shown regarding Goku and Chichi. Basically, Goku and Chichi have a old-school romantic relationship, in which they promised themselves to each other from an early age (even though Goku had trouble understanding what was going on). We can't judge it from our 21st century western bias.

[ABED]

That's my biggest problem with it. It's not a realistic relationship.

Of course it's realistic, it's just not normal for a modern western person. Even today, there are lots of places where the norm is arranged marriages, which is even worse than what was shown regarding Goku and Chichi. Basically, Goku and Chichi have a old-school romantic relationship, in which they promised themselves to each other from an early age (even though Goku had trouble understanding what was going on). We can't judge it from our 21st century western bias.

We absolutely can, and it's not an arranged marriage. It was a naïve girl "falling in love" and a kid agreeing to marry her because he thought it was a type of food.

[rereboy]

That's my biggest problem with it. It's not a realistic relationship.

Of course it's realistic, it's just not normal for a modern western person. Even today, there are lots of places where the norm is arranged marriages, which is even worse than what was shown regarding Goku and Chichi. Basically, Goku and Chichi have a old-school romantic relationship, in which they promised themselves to each other from an early age (even though Goku had trouble understanding what was going on). We can't judge it from our 21st century western bias.

We absolutely can, and it's not an arranged marriage. It was a naïve girl "falling in love" and a kid agreeing to marry her because he thought it was a type of food.

Never said it was an arranged marriage, you missed my point regarding that. And no, Goku still agreed to marry her after understanding exactly what it meant, he could have simply refused.

[ABED]

Never said it was an arranged marriage, you missed my point regarding that. And no, Goku still agreed to marry her after understanding exactly what it meant, he could have simply refused.

But it was the most lackluster, weak willed agreement. Be basically said, "I said yes, so I guess I have to." And apparently I did miss your point about arranged marriages because I don't see how it applies to this at all. I think I know what you meant, but it's an odd point. Goku and Chichi is realistic because there are people out there that go through with arranged marriages? No, it's not realistic, because if there are people who get married due to both parties confusion about what they are getting into, it's a very rare occurrence. There was nothing remotely romantic in Goku and Chichi's nuptials. It's played for comedy.

[rereboy]

Never said it was an arranged marriage, you missed my point regarding that. And no, Goku still agreed to marry her after understanding exactly what it meant, he could have simply refused.

But it was the most lackluster, weak willed agreement. Be basically said, "I said yes, so I guess I have to." And apparently I did miss your point about arranged marriages because I don't see how it applies to this at all. I think I know what you meant, but it's an odd point. Goku and Chichi is realistic because there are people out there that go through with arranged marriages? No, it's not realistic, because if there are people who get married due to both parties confusion about what they are getting into, it's a very rare occurrence. There was nothing remotely romantic in Goku and Chichi's nuptials.

Once upon a time, there were places on Earth where people married each other because the guy had killed the woman previous husband in combat and thus it was only right that he took care of her now so he was honor-bound to do it, and they both agreed to that. What you consider a weak agreement, or something that doesn't make sense, or irrealistic only seems so due to our modern bias. There are countless real examples from history that would seem more irrealistic to a modern western person than Goku and Chichi. Goku agreed to marry Chichi after he understood what it meant, and even if he only did so because he felt honor-bound (which we don't know if that was the only reason) that was still a perfectly normal motive once upon a time in the real world.

[ABED]

Once upon a time, there were places on Earth where people married each other because the guy had killed the woman previous husband in combat and thus it was only right that he took care of her now so he was honor-bound to do it, and they both agreed to that. What you consider a weak agreement, or something that doesn't make sense, or irrealistic only seems so due to our modern bias. There are countless real examples from history that would seem more irrealistic to a modern western person than Goku and Chichi. Goku agreed to marry Chichi after he understood what it meant, and even if he only did so because he felt honor-bound (which we don't know if that was the only reason) that was still a perfectly normal motive once upon a time in the real world.

What is your point? People get married for all sorts of stupid reasons?

ANd while I don't agree with it, a western person such as myself can understand arranged marriages, but that has no relevance. The fact that there are weird reasons people get married doesn't make "Oh, I thought it was food, okay I'll marry you because I promised," a realistic reason for marriage. Being western has NOTHING to do with it. And we absolutely know what's the only reason why he did it. It was played for a gag. If you don't understand that, you missed the point. Look at Goku's reaction when she's clinging to his arm after he agrees to marry him. Also listen to her, she's doing that because "that's what married people do." That isn't a normal motive in the real world. Bias? You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I acknowledge that people married for weird reasons, but your examples drop context.

[rereboy]

What is your point? People get married for all sorts of stupid reasons?

Dragon Ball actually bases some of its elements in very old notions thanks to it being based on The Journey to the West, old martial arts and other stuff. Goku and Chichi, unlike for example Bulma, drink more from the old elements than the modern and western world, while Bulma drinks much more from the modern and western world. So, since people were calling their marriage irrealistic, I tried to show that it's not irrealistic because in real life marriages happen or happened for similar reasons, or even weirder reasons, and were even considered normal in certain places and in certain times, and Goku and Chichi and their relationship isn't exactly modeled after the modern and western world and its notions. That was my point.

We can say that their reasons were stupid and that they shouldn't get married because of that, and that's fine because that's how we view things as modern individuals... But not irrealistic.

[Krillin1994]

DB stopped being a gag manga when Tao Pai Pai showed up and started murdering people in cold blood and the comedy definitely ended when Krillin got killed by Tamborine. That was long before the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament.

The genre doesn't just change like a light switch. Toriyama's style often changed depending on the mood he was in a the time.

Toriyama's style and mood did change but it's pretty much undeniable that the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament is not and was never meant to be "funny". The characters were all grown up, Piccolo Jr was a serious threat to everyone in the stadium, and Goku vs Piccolo Jr was one of the most violent fights in DB.

Yamcha getting hit in the balls, and Goku trolling Tien by taking his belt are pretty funny.

[nickzambuto]

Ok here we go.

Goku's marriage to ChiChi is one of the dumbest plot twists in DB.
It makes no sense whatsoever. Goku and ChiChi haven't seen each other in 6 years + 8 months by the time they meet again at the 23rd Martial Arts Tournament. Who in their right mind would marry someone they haven't seen in almost 7 years? I know that DB has a lot of unrealistic stuff but Goku's marriage to ChiChi felt too forced and unnatural. And no, I'm not one of those fans who thinks that Goku should have married Bulma. I think that Goku should have stayed single. There was no point trying to make Goku look more "human" only to have him abandon his wife and kid later for 7 freaking years. I would have preferred if Gohan and Goten were the result of a one-night stand just like Trunks was.

Vegeta should have stayed dead after Freeza killed him on Planet Namek.
If you think about it, this was the perfect ending for Vegeta. He lived and died as a villain but at least he died free, not as Freeza's slave. Bringing Vegeta back to life and making him turn "good", and making him have kids with Bulma, and giving him SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ God, etc... it feels like a desperate attempt to please fanboys. It wasn't needed. Goku could have easily defeated Cyborg Freeza and King Cold. Future Gohan or Future Bulma could have went back in time to warn the Z-warriors about the androids. Piccolo could have been "possessed" by Babidi during the Buu Saga.

Goku and Gohan should have defeated Cell by fighting together as a team. Goku should have survived the Cell Games.
And I would say this even if the Buu Saga and DB Super and the new weak, useless Gohan never happened.

Well, I disagree with almost every single sentence in this post, but since this thread is literally dedicated to "Unpopular Opinions", I won't give you a hard time and debate you over it, lol (unless you're curious)

[ABED]

What is your point? People get married for all sorts of stupid reasons?

Dragon Ball actually bases some of its elements in very old notions thanks to it being based on The Journey to the West, old martial arts and other stuff. Goku and Chichi, unlike for example Bulma, drink more from the old elements than the modern and western world, while Bulma drinks much more from the modern and western world. So, since people were calling their marriage irrealistic, I tried to show that it's not irrealistic because in real life marriages happen or happened for similar reasons, or even weirder reasons, and were even considered normal in certain places and in certain times, and Goku and Chichi and their relationship isn't exactly modeled after the modern and western world and its notions. That was my point.

We can say that their reasons were stupid and that they shouldn't get married because of that, and that's fine because that's how we view things as modern individuals... But not irrealistic.

Just to get it out of the way, it's "unrealistic" not "irrealistic".

The reasons you mentioned weren't weird, they were simply archaic and awful. Chich and Goku got married for unrealistic reasons. This was in no way normal as we aren't talking about a marriage of convenience or an arranged marriage. We're talking about two consenting adults entering into marriage because Goku mistakenly thought he was going to get food. None of your examples is even close to that.

Yamcha getting hit in the balls, and Goku trolling Tien by taking his belt are pretty funny.

Thank you! I don't know why anyone thinks there's this radical switch in tone and the series loses the vast majority of its whimsy. Goku bites Freeza's tail, and the Ginyu Force are posing and dancing bufoons.

[nickzambuto]

Dragon Ball started off as pure gag manga and gradually shifted into more serious tones. Did it ever lose its comedy completely? I can't recall too many funny moments from either the Saiyans arc or Androids.

[ABED]

Dragon Ball started off as pure gag manga and gradually shifted into more serious tones. Did it ever lose its comedy completely? I can't recall too many funny moments from either the Saiyans arc or Androids.

There's plenty, lest we forget Mr. Satan. The show shifts tones throughout, and eventually goes back into much more comedic territory in the Buu arc.