"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[ArchedThunder]

Only for one more episode. I'm not really sure that's worth celebrating.

One more episode is better than no more episodes! But seriously, I hope the next one is good too. Another Keytalk one would be cool (I love Starring Star).

While it's very possible that the current ED ends on 59, that's not confirmed, and we don't know what kind of deal they have - maybe Yoka Yoka Dance is supposed to run for 12 episodes regardless of breaks? That would delay the new ED a couple weeks, which we shouldn't rule out.

ED changes aren't made based on episode numbers, they're based on cours, the new cour starts with October.

[Xeztin]

One more episode is better than no more episodes! But seriously, I hope the next one is good too. Another Keytalk one would be cool (I love Starring Star).

While it's very possible that the current ED ends on 59, that's not confirmed, and we don't know what kind of deal they have - maybe Yoka Yoka Dance is supposed to run for 12 episodes regardless of breaks? That would delay the new ED a couple weeks, which we shouldn't rule out.

ED changes aren't made based on episode numbers, they're based on cours, the new cour starts with October.

I'm hoping we get new animation, a new op song and ed song. This arc really deserves it.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Don't they only have these "filler slice of life arcs" in order to give Toriyama time to write out the next plot outline?

No. The Future Trunks Saga was finished back in Feburary. The U6 and U7 tourument barely started and didn't finish until April. They didn't need 'filler' to buy time.

Toriyama may have been done but they sure as hell must have needed time to turn is draft into episodes.

I don't know why so many people think there's no way we go past the end of Z, or if we do it won't be for a long time.

Everything has been tightly woven together. In this 10 year gap how much time as passed? 1 year? 2 years? 3 years?

If EoZ was going to happen soon then these arcs would have been spread out and not clustered together. They're trying to squeeze as much out of these 10 years as possible, if and when they go past EoZ that will override GT and I think Toei might not want that.

[HeroR]

Don't they only have these "filler slice of life arcs" in order to give Toriyama time to write out the next plot outline?

No. The Future Trunks Saga was finished back in Feburary. The U6 and U7 tourument barely started and didn't finish until April. They didn't need 'filler' to buy time.

Toriyama may have been done but they sure as hell must have needed time to turn is draft into episodes.

I don't know why so many people think there's no way we go past the end of Z, or if we do it won't be for a long time.

Everything has been tightly woven together. In this 10 year gap how much time as passed? 1 year? 2 years? 3 years?

If EoZ was going to happen soon then these arcs would have been spread out and not clustered together. They're trying to squeeze as much out of these 10 years as possible, if and when they go past EoZ that will override GT and I think Toei might not want that.

It wouldn't have taken them two months to storyboard and animate. Especially since it hasn't even been until recently that animators were given more than four weeks to draw an episode. Most of the 'filler' are done to act as breather episodes or to give some character development. I highly doubt they exist to buy time like back in the day.

[TheMikado]

Don't they only have these "filler slice of life arcs" in order to give Toriyama time to write out the next plot outline?

No. The Future Trunks Saga was finished back in Feburary. The U6 and U7 tourument barely started and didn't finish until April. They didn't need 'filler' to buy time.

Toriyama may have been done but they sure as hell must have needed time to turn is draft into episodes.

I don't know why so many people think there's no way we go past the end of Z, or if we do it won't be for a long time.

Everything has been tightly woven together. In this 10 year gap how much time as passed? 1 year? 2 years? 3 years?

If EoZ was going to happen soon then these arcs would have been spread out and not clustered together. They're trying to squeeze as much out of these 10 years as possible, if and when they go past EoZ that will override GT and I think Toei might not want that.

Pretty much, as I keep saying Super is a TOEI concept and invention.. if they can link it to EOZ and GT, a product they already have.. in order generate renewed interest in their series and toys without going through the trouble of actually producing something new, why wouldn't they. It would literally be the most cash efficient way to handle it by simply not going past EOZ.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

No. The Future Trunks Saga was finished back in Feburary. The U6 and U7 tourument barely started and didn't finish until April. They didn't need 'filler' to buy time.

Toriyama may have been done but they sure as hell must have needed time to turn is draft into episodes.

I don't know why so many people think there's no way we go past the end of Z, or if we do it won't be for a long time.

Everything has been tightly woven together. In this 10 year gap how much time as passed? 1 year? 2 years? 3 years?

If EoZ was going to happen soon then these arcs would have been spread out and not clustered together. They're trying to squeeze as much out of these 10 years as possible, if and when they go past EoZ that will override GT and I think Toei might not want that.

Pretty much, as I keep saying Super is a TOEI concept and invention.. if they can link it to EOZ and GT, a product they already have.. in order generate renewed interest in their series and toys without going through the trouble of actually producing something new, why wouldn't they. It would literally be the most cash efficient way to handle it by simply not going past EOZ.

There are two new SS4 Figures plus a SS4 Gogeta coming out too. GT is a product they still sell and it would be foolish to override that. Toriyama obviously seems happy not touching EoZ, Toei obviously are happy hence why EoZ will always be a distant dream.

[namekiansaiyan]

I don't care about the timeline, so I hope Toriyama and Toei work as if end of Z does not exist so there is no restrictions in upcoming arcs.

[THEGOKU]

I feel like EoZ is too sacred to be touched and was a perfect high note to end the series on. They could do an arc after EoZ just to feature Uub in the series somehow but that would probably be the last arc to have. That way it isn't just Goku and Vegeta doing all the fighting and Goku can do what he wanted to do all along and past the mantle to someone he can trust. Hell I mean the universal tournament is a great way to build Uubs character and make him useful. We can have a long way to go before they even get close to that but we all know that is where it is leading up to since it was said the series takes place before that tournament.

[HeroR]

Pretty much, as I keep saying Super is a TOEI concept and invention.. if they can link it to EOZ and GT, a product they already have.. in order generate renewed interest in their series and toys without going through the trouble of actually producing something new, why wouldn't they. It would literally be the most cash efficient way to handle it by simply not going past EOZ.

No, Super is Toriyama's concept and invention. Toei may make the episodes and fill them out, but it's Toriyama's script, ideas, and he has the final say. If he wants to override GT out of existence (which he did in many ways since many events in Super cannot happened in GT, most of all being Super's version of Hell), then Toriyama will do so and Toei will let him.

[TheMikado]

Pretty much, as I keep saying Super is a TOEI concept and invention.. if they can link it to EOZ and GT, a product they already have.. in order generate renewed interest in their series and toys without going through the trouble of actually producing something new, why wouldn't they. It would literally be the most cash efficient way to handle it by simply not going past EOZ.

No, Super is Toriyama's concept and invention. Toei may make the episodes and fill them out, but it's Toriyama's script, ideas, and he has the final say. If he wants to override GT out of existence (which he did in many ways since many events in Super cannot happened in GT, most of all being Super's version of Hell), then Toriyama will do so and Toei will let him.

Yeah, no...
For some reason people think the production goes
Toriyama concept > Toei adapts....

We have already seen multiple times buy Toriyama and Toei's own admission and interviews the production process has actually looked like this:

Toei concept/outline > Toriyama adapts > Toei adapts Toriyama adaptation of Toei outline.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Pretty much, as I keep saying Super is a TOEI concept and invention.. if they can link it to EOZ and GT, a product they already have.. in order generate renewed interest in their series and toys without going through the trouble of actually producing something new, why wouldn't they. It would literally be the most cash efficient way to handle it by simply not going past EOZ.

No, Super is Toriyama's concept and invention. Toei may make the episodes and fill them out, but it's Toriyama's script, ideas, and he has the final say. If he wants to override GT out of existence (which he did in many ways since many events in Super cannot happened in GT, most of all being Super's version of Hell), then Toriyama will do so and Toei will let him.

Yeah, no...
For some reason people think the production goes
Toriyama concept > Toei adapts....

We have already seen multiple times buy Toriyama and Toei's own admission and interviews the production process has actually looked like this:

Toei concept/outline > Toriyama adapts > Toei adapts Toriyama adaptation of Toei outline.

No, Toriyama merely took ideas from Toei & wrote his own stories, which were adapted by Toei, and this only happened with BoG & Future Trunks arcs, with FnF & U6 arcs being entirely his ideas. Most of the story is written by him.

[TheMikado]

Handing someone a finished rough script without their input is more than floating ideas, as for the other two arcs we do not know the extent as the production wasn't detailed, but there is no reason to assume the production methods or two arcs would be drastically different. I'm sure the levels of input may be but it's a stretch to think they suddenly switched their active production method for two arcs just because.

Look I get it, everyone wants this to be Toriyamas original solo story soooooooo bad to make it "canon" but I mean geez we shouldn't be delusional about how the production process looks. We don't know the full story, but when they go into detail on it , the original concepts typically come from Toei.

[HeroR]

Yeah, no...
For some reason people think the production goes
Toriyama concept > Toei adapts....

We have already seen multiple times buy Toriyama and Toei's own admission and interviews the production process has actually looked like this:

Toei concept/outline > Toriyama adapts > Toei adapts Toriyama adaptation of Toei outline.

The only thing he took for the Future Trunks Saga is a suggesting from the editors, which is vague and can mean anything. Even then, given what he did for BOG, he has no problem taking Toei's script and taking it apart to make his own story. And even then, Toriyama is still the one who spent month writing the script for the Future Trunks Saga. Toei just broke them down into episodes, made some changes, added some of their own stuff, and send the final draft to Toriyama for approval. It was the same thing they did for Resurrection 'F'.

So Super is Toriyama's ideas and story, with Toei collaboration, just like the two canon movies. Super wouldn't existed without Toriyama, unlike GT where the only thing Toriyama contribute was concept arts, sketches, and the logo. So if and when Toriyama decides to write GT out of existence or go past EOZ, Toei isn't going to stop him. Especially since Super is more popular than GT.

And, as I have already pointed out, Super already can't work with GT. The entire Super 17 arc can't happened because the entire concept is based on Toei's version of Hell, not Toriyama's. The Dragon Balls also granted more wished without showing any sign of cracking.

Handing someone a finished rough script without their input is more than floating ideas, as for the other two arcs we do not know the extent as the production wasn't detailed, but there is no reason to assume the production methods or two arcs would be drastically different. I'm sure the levels of input may be but it's a stretch to think they suddenly switched their active production method for two arcs just because.

Look I get it, everyone wants this to be Toriyamas original solo story soooooooo bad to make it "canon" but I mean geez we shouldn't be delusional about how the production process looks. We don't know the full story, but when they go into detail on it , the original concepts typically come from Toei.

We know that Toei sends the final script for Toriyama to be approved. So if Toriyama wanted them to changed something, they would. I don't know where you're getting that Toriyama has no final input in the script. And even if the original concept comes form Toei like in BOG, guess what, Toriyama still rewrote the entire script and got rid of parts he didn't like. Why wouldn't Super work the same way, especially when Toriyama said himself how the process works.

And Toei aren't going to make any big changes to any of Toriyama's idea. We seen in Resurrection 'F' that they faithfully followed Toriyama's script outside of changes some minor details like the mercenaries and the plot hole about Freeza seeing Bulma on Namek.

Also, no one here says that Toriyama wrote Super solo. It is obviously a collaboration between Toriyama and Toei. However, Toriyama is the story writer and it's his ideas even if Toei gives him a suggesting or two.

[Ajay]

Battle of Gods (the movie) was originally written by Yusuke Watanabe, but then Toriyama came in and changed things around to fit the story he wanted to tell. That means no more lizard Beerus and no caped SSJ God.

Resurrection 'F' is entirely Toriyama's story from start to finish.

The anime adaptations and their changes for these movies are not Toriyama's. In the case of Resurrection 'F', those changes were actually specifically asked for by Kozo Morishita according to my sources.

Regarding Universe 6, Toriyama said "I’ve written a strange new story where they finally depart from this universe. They’re fighting against their neighbors, Universe 6!", this is a stark contrast to what he said for the Future Trunks arc: "I put together this story based on a suggestion from the editorial office." I think that's an important difference to make here.

Regarding how the production works, it's pretty simple, and Toriyama outlines it himself: "I write an outline of the entire plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be." That's pretty standard and the script credits each week confirm this.

Much like Battle of Gods, Super's original arcs are a big collaborative process. The balance between Toei and Toriyama probably slides back and forth, but it's impossible to say for sure. You can't make predictions based on this kinda stuff.

[TheMikado]

And, as I have already pointed out, Super already can't work with GT. The entire Super 17 arc can't happened because the entire concept is based on Toei's version of Hell, not Toriyama's. The Dragon Balls also granted more wished without showing any sign of cracking.

So what I'm hearing is that if the things like hell being inconsistent make GT non canon, then if Super breaks Toriyamas laws of time travel that would also make it non canon to Z?

[TheMikado]

Battle of Gods (the movie) was originally written by Yusuke Watanabe, but then Toriyama came in and changed things around to fit the story he wanted to tell. That means no more lizard Beerus and no caped SSJ God.

Resurrection 'F' is entirely Toriyama's story from start to finish.

The anime adaptations and their changes for these movies are not Toriyama's. In the case of Resurrection 'F', those changes were actually specifically asked for by Kozo Morishita according to my sources.

Regarding Universe 6, Toriyama said "I’ve written a strange new story where they finally depart from this universe. They’re fighting against their neighbors, Universe 6!", this is a stark contrast to what he said for the Future Trunks arc: "I put together this story based on a suggestion from the editorial office." I think that's an important difference to make here.

Regarding how the production works, it's pretty simple, and Toriyama outlines it himself: "I write an outline of the entire plot, then the script writers break it up into episodes, expanding on things, changing things around, or adding in new bits as need be." That's pretty standard and the script credits each week confirm this.

Much like Battle of Gods, Super's original arcs are a big collaborative process. The balance between Toei and Toriyama probably slides back and forth, but it's impossible to say for sure. You can't make predictions based on this kinda stuff.

This is my point, the entire concept of Gods of destruction belong to Toei and dictated the direction of Super. We have no idea how much and where Toei is inserting concepts. Whether Toriyama writes the original overview or concepts and what it is is often ambiguous so acting as if this is entirely Toriyamas story is 100% false. We know that he writes outlines but we have no idea if they have concepts they ask him to hit and he arranges them how he thinks the story should pan out. As I stated before Super as a who was a Toei invention with their creation of BOG which the entire series is based off.

[HeroR]

And, as I have already pointed out, Super already can't work with GT. The entire Super 17 arc can't happened because the entire concept is based on Toei's version of Hell, not Toriyama's. The Dragon Balls also granted more wished without showing any sign of cracking.

So what I'm hearing is that if the things like hell being inconsistent make GT non canon, then if Super breaks Toriyamas laws of time travel that would also make it non canon to Z?

Give me a break. You know go and well that is not the same thing.

There are four green Time Rings created when someone traveled into the past. The Time Rings can only traveled into the future, never the past, and they don't create new timeline because you're not changing the past, but a future that hasn't happened yet.

And, yes, GT is not canon to Toriyama's work. Hell in GT is nothing like the Hell Toriyama's created. A Hell rebelling can't happened because all the people in Hell are trapped to trees. Meaning no Gero and Myuu to team and somehow make a perfect copy of Android 17. The people in Hell don't even keep their bodies. They keep spiritual avatar of their original form when they die and have their powers stripped from them. They also have to explain why Freeza doesn't have his golden form in GT.

This is more than a minor inconsistent, Hell itself it different. And actually makes sense in Toriyama's work since it was specifically said that only the good keep their bodies and it never made sense why evil characters kept their bodies with all their power intact.

This is my point, the entire concept of Gods of destruction belong to Toei and dictated the direction of Super. We have no idea how much and where Toei is inserting concepts. Whether Toriyama writes the original overview or concepts and what it is is often ambiguous so acting as if this is entirely Toriyamas story is 100% false. We know that he writes outlines but we have no idea if they have concepts they ask him to hit and he arranges them how he thinks the story should pan out. As I stated before Super as a who was a Toei invention with their creation of BOG which the entire series is based off.

The only thing Toei's Beerus and Toriyama's Beerus have it common is the concept that they are the Gods of Destruction and the strongest being in the universe. Beerus was originally a lizard and a virus who infected the Saiyans like the Black Water Mist and did the same to the people of Earth. Toriyama's Beerus has none of those characteristics and is actually a pretty decent person, while Toei's Beerus was a straight villain. And the movie BOG is utterly different from the original script.

We also do have an idea on how Toriyama's thinks the story will pan out. Look at the anime and manga for Super and see the similarities. Despite the whole anime vs manga here, the two basically tell the exact same story with some details arranged differently.

So again, Super is not Toei's invention, since Super wouldn't even existed without Toriyama. It is a collaboration of Toriyama and Toei. It is Toriyama's story ideas, world building, and outline with some of Toei's ideas, animation, and storyboarding.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I don't care about the timeline, so I hope Toriyama and Toei work as if end of Z does not exist so there is no restrictions in upcoming arcs.

Yeah that is certainly the best thing to do. Tbh it seems like they might be doing so anyway.

The anime adaptations and their changes for these movies are not Toriyama's. In the case of Resurrection 'F', those changes were actually specifically asked for by Kozo Morishita according to my sources.

Interesting. So is there any specific reason why the changes stopped being rung after the main fight started? Because honestly the changes they made were not important it was the latter part of the movie that needed major changes.

[HeroR]

I don't care about the timeline, so I hope Toriyama and Toei work as if end of Z does not exist so there is no restrictions in upcoming arcs.

Yeah that is certainly the best thing to do. Tbh it seems like they might be doing so anyway.

The anime adaptations and their changes for these movies are not Toriyama's. In the case of Resurrection 'F', those changes were actually specifically asked for by Kozo Morishita according to my sources.

Interesting. So is there any specific reason why the changes stopped being rung after the main fight started? Because honestly the changes they made were not important it was the latter part of the movie that needed major changes.

I feel the opposite, the late half of Resurrection 'F' was fine for me. Then again, I also don't believe Vegeta 'deserves' anything.

[TheMikado]

And, as I have already pointed out, Super already can't work with GT. The entire Super 17 arc can't happened because the entire concept is based on Toei's version of Hell, not Toriyama's. The Dragon Balls also granted more wished without showing any sign of cracking.

So what I'm hearing is that if the things like hell being inconsistent make GT non canon, then if Super breaks Toriyamas laws of time travel that would also make it non canon to Z?

Give me a break. You know go and well that is not the same thing.

There are four green Time Rings created when someone traveled into the past. The Time Rings can only traveled into the future, never the past, and they don't create new timeline because you're not changing the past, but a future that hasn't happened yet.

And, yes, GT is not canon to Toriyama's work. Hell in GT is nothing like the Hell Toriyama's created. A Hell rebelling can't happened because all the people in Hell are trapped to trees. Meaning no Gero and Myuu to team and somehow make a perfect copy of Android 17. The people in Hell don't even keep their bodies. They keep spiritual avatar of their original form when they die and have their powers stripped from them. They also have to explain why Freeza doesn't have his golden form in GT.

This is more than a minor inconsistent, Hell itself it different. And actually makes sense in Toriyama's work since it was specifically said that only the good keep their bodies and it never made sense why evil characters kept their bodies with all their power intact.

This is my point, the entire concept of Gods of destruction belong to Toei and dictated the direction of Super. We have no idea how much and where Toei is inserting concepts. Whether Toriyama writes the original overview or concepts and what it is is often ambiguous so acting as if this is entirely Toriyamas story is 100% false. We know that he writes outlines but we have no idea if they have concepts they ask him to hit and he arranges them how he thinks the story should pan out. As I stated before Super as a who was a Toei invention with their creation of BOG which the entire series is based off.

The only thing Toei's Beerus and Toriyama's Beerus have it common is the concept that they are the Gods of Destruction and the strongest being in the universe. Beerus was originally a lizard and a virus who infected the Saiyans like the Black Water Mist and did the same to the people of Earth. Toriyama's Beerus has none of those characteristics and is actually a pretty decent person, while Toei's Beerus was a straight villain. And the movie BOG is utterly different from the original script.

We also do have an idea on how Toriyama's thinks the story will pan out. Look at the anime and manga for Super and see the similarities. Despite the whole anime vs manga here, the two basically tell the exact same story with some details arranged differently.

The arc isn't over, we have no idea if it will break time travel rules yet. As for this Hell nonsense there are very few people who are going to agree with you over GT non being canon due to that. Of all the reasons if that is you're primary one it's likely you just don't want it to be which is a personal preference. There is more than enough material like that to make the series non canon between each other.