Should Beerus be concerned about people wishing for immortality?

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Beerus-sama
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Re: Should Beerus be concerned about people wishing for immortality?

Post by Beerus-sama » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:46 pm

Maybe he can defeat inmortality if the one that wished it needs to be killed?
[spoiler]can't wait to know if Present Zamasu will survive... he probably will :think: [/spoiler]
Or he can punish him with other methods like Nejishiki said :P
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Beerus' job is to destroy planets, not people.
Life and Planets. :P

Edit: Nevermind, I just checked the very first trailer from BoG (the one my first response, now striked, was referencing) and it only applies to planets :P darn it Latin Spanish translation :evil:
Although for what we know in Super, Gowasu said only the Hakaishin can interfere in the mortal world, so I guess that means he can.
Also it wouldn't make sense if he couldn't kill people since destroying planets includes living beings.
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Re: Should Beerus be concerned about people wishing for immortality?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:11 pm

We can't really compare Garlic to Zamasu. The simple fact is that we don't know exactly how this immortality works yet, and you jumping to conclusions doesn't help move any discussion along. In fact, it stifles dialogue when you invent principles out of thin air.
Their bodies somehow regenerated when sustaining holes in their being, both of them have wished for immortality from what we know, the only way someone can exist as something other than a body in DBZ is by being dead and so far we have yet to see anyone be blown to atoms and still be alive.
I don't think this counts as "jumping to conclusions" or "stifling dialogue" when these things have been established, at least in a visual sense, to fans and viewers.
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Re: Should Beerus be concerned about people wishing for immortality?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:22 pm

Beerus-sama wrote:Maybe he can defeat inmortality if the one that wished it needs to be killed?
[spoiler]can't wait to know if Present Zamasu will survive... he probably will :think: [/spoiler]
Or he can punish him with other methods like Nejishiki said :P
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Beerus' job is to destroy planets, not people.
Life and Planets. :P

Edit: Nevermind, I just checked the very first trailer from BoG (the one my first response, now striked, was referencing) and it only applies to planets :P darn it Latin Spanish translation :evil:
Although for what we know in Super, Gowasu said only the Hakaishin can interfere in the mortal world, so I guess that means he can.
Also it wouldn't make sense if he couldn't kill people since destroying planets includes living beings.
Obviously he can kill people, I was just saying that it's not his primary job. It's just a side effect of his job. So if he destroyed a planet that was populated by immortal people who all survived, his job would still be done as long as the planet was gone.
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Re: Should Beerus be concerned about people wishing for immortality?

Post by Lionel » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:50 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Lionel wrote:The immortality seems to be conceptually similar to Buu's -- i.e. atomise them down to literally nothing and they have nothing to regenerate from. In fairness, this method has yet to be tested on Zamasu.
I don't think that's possible, Boo was not actually immortal just extremely difficult to kill so it stands as to why he could be destroyed or "purified" by the Genki Dama and Enma's ruling. An immortal on the other hand is not able to reach the afterlife and cannot exist simply as a soul unless they are dead, so they probably could regenerate endlessly even down past atomic levels if the Dead Zone supposedly does act like a black hole.
Buu was completely disintegrated down past even a subatomic level, there was absolutely nothing left of him after the Spirit Bomb, nothing in which to regenerate from. Furthermore, the second Daizenshuu and a quote from Vegeta in the manga both establish that Buu was indeed immortal. Zamasu's regenerative abilities were proven to be mechanically driven by the encompassing flesh surrounding the perforation, similar to Buu's. If he were to suffer the same fate, he may very well end up in the afterlife as well. We would have to test this theory out, of course.

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Re: Should Beerus be concerned about people wishing for immortality?

Post by theherodjl » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:43 pm

Lionel wrote:Buu was completely disintegrated down past even a subatomic level, there was absolutely nothing left of him after the Spirit Bomb, nothing in which to regenerate from. Furthermore, the second Daizenshuu and a quote from Vegeta in the manga both establish that Buu was indeed immortal. Zamasu's regenerative abilities were proven to be mechanically driven by the encompassing flesh surrounding the perforation, similar to Buu's. If he were to suffer the same fate, he may very well end up in the afterlife as well. We would have to test this theory out, of course.
The Genki Dama may have not just blown Boo into microscopic pieces but also "purified" him because he was a being of pure evil as well as the fact that Enma chose to reincarnate the spirit of Boo as Oob a short time later, this is evidence that he died which someone truly immortal would not suffer from.
Also can you provide a scan or quote from the Daizenshuu that confirms Boo was immortal in the same sense as Garlic Jr?
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Re: Should Beerus be concerned about people wishing for immortality?

Post by Lionel » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:26 pm

Since when is the Spirit Bomb capable of "purifying" those whom it is launched against? The only moralistic implications surrounding the bomb are that it can't hurt good. Both Vegeta and Freeza had it launched at them and they were in no way "purified". Buu was simply reduced to literally nothing with no trace of him remaining, not even molecules. Immortality appears to be treated in the same vein as limitations in that they're constantly having their boundaries pushed and then eventually overcome; we this with Roshi, the cyborgs, and eventually Buu.

I can't find it specifically, and I've searched extensively, though it is from the Daizenshuu 2 (not sure if this one is even on the web) and the citation was provided on the "immortals" page of the wikia.

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Re: Should Beerus be concerned about people wishing for immortality?

Post by Nejishiki » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:52 pm

Daizenshuu 2 - [url=http://i.imgur.com/wtDSG5Q.jpg]All Battles[/url] wrote:182 - Majin Buu (Good) vs Majin Buu (Evil)
Vol. 42 / Chp. 512
The original Buu was spit out from Buu. He fought bravely, but the evil Buu's fierce attacks began to inflict great damage on even his immortal body.
The original Buu is in a pinch
However, this isn't to say it should mean literal immortality.
Daizenshuu 2 - Final Battle wrote:ACT 5
The immortal Freeza kills Kuririn.
Their relief was only for a fleeting instant. At Freeza's counterattack, Piccolo is injured and Kuririn is annihilated.
It's dependent on the context. For the most part in Dragon Ball, "immortality" refers to being seemingly invincible. Any mention of immortality in the original story suggestively and consistently treats the concept as such. Let's be reminded that this is native to Dragon Ball, so rules of other fiction need not apply.
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: Chapter 219 (DBZ 25), P1.2
Context: still after Nappa isn’t hurt by the Kikoho
Piccolo: “It…it can’t be…Is h-he immortal…!?
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 271 (DBZ 77), P12.2-4
Vegeta: “Listen, you dirty bastard…! This Ginyu Special-Squad that Freeza has called is about as…no, they could be even stronger than me! And there are five of them!! They’ll find your ball with their scouters and come to kill us all!!!”
Kuririn: “N-no… It can’t be…”
Vegeta: “Don’t you feel their power?!! There’s only one way!!! Make me immortal so I can fight them!!!”
Nail: “He could be telling the truth… I do feel five large, evil powers…”
Chapter: 282 (DBZ 88), P15.1
Context: talking to Goku
Vegeta: “You seem confident after becoming so overwhelmingly strong, but you absolutely can’t win against Freeza like this! Not unless you were immortal! You don’t understand a thing about how fearsome Freeza is!”
Chapter: 293 (DBZ 99), P12.2
Vegeta: “You fools…! You’ve wasted the one method of defeating Freeza! The only way to win against him was to make me immortal!
Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 465 (DBZ 271), P7.1-2
Context: after Vegeta blasts a hole through Boo’s chest
Boo: “That hurt…a little bit…hehehe…”
Vegeta: “…Are you immortal?...”
Chapter: 466 (DBZ 272), P1.3
Context: after Boo’s big attack makes a crater
Vegeta: “…Wh-what the?...Ridiculous; he’s st-strong, and to top it off immortal too…Damn it all…”
Of course, Shen Long grants Garlic Jr. immortality. His power and speed must be refined by himself yet his "shell" regenerates and he's able to get back up continuously. Zamasu shares some of these characteristics, but we'll have to wait and see how Toriyama fully interprets immortality, if we haven't already seen what we need to.

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Re: Should Beerus be concerned about people wishing for immortality?

Post by Friezacooler » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:13 am

Any Buu has much better immortality then Garlic junior, Cell, Piccolo, Ssj God. The Z movie characters have proply better regen then dbs characters. Botamo is the only one close to indistructiblity I guess.

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