"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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TheMikado
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:07 am

alakazam^ wrote:
TheMikado wrote:I didn't start that conversation at all, get your facts straight. Nor did I say one was better than the other. Seriously what is your problem?????? I know Toriyama is God around here but all I said was there's a chance he didn't put as much time or work or practice into his manga especially when he admits to that himself! That's all. My entire point is that there's a chance that he didn't do his best work because he by his own admission doesn't seem to be very disciplined. AT NO POINT DID I SAY TORIYAMA WAS A WORSE ARTIST OR A BAD ARTIST. Serious what's your people's problem and obsession with Toriyama!?!?
How about you calm down? I didn't say none of that so maybe you should follow your own advice.
What I remember is people comparing Toyotarou's skill to Toriyama's and you popping in talking about Toriyama's laziness, which I didn't think was relevant to the conversation.
Like I said, I ask that you refrain from accusing me of things I didn't say/do. I appreciate your cooperation in refraining from incorrect personal accusations. Thank you in advance and apologize if my tone was harsh due to the nature of something being incorrectly attributed to me. As stated this was not a conversation started by me, I was contributing to an already in process conversation point.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bansho64 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:08 am

I have a hunch Toyotaro might have Trunks transform into SSJ3 for the fight. I don't know why, but it seems possible.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:22 am

Bansho64 wrote:I have a hunch Toyotaro might have Trunks transform into SSJ3 for the fight. I don't know why, but it seems possible.
Considering the fact he's already on that level with 2, he doesn't need 3.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by THEGOKU » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:43 am

I guess this break worked out perfectly then to fit in a lot of attention to this popular chapter in the manga. I mean the manga and the show are both at critical points I think it is good for them to get separate attention.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bansho64 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:22 am

ekrolo2 wrote: Considering the fact he's already on that level with 2, he doesn't need 3.
But wouldn't 3 still make him stronger?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:56 am

Bansho64 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: Considering the fact he's already on that level with 2, he doesn't need 3.
But wouldn't 3 still make him stronger?
Marginally at best. His SS2 already received a boost nearing SS3s. Unless he got a times four increase for his burst of higher SS2 strength, 3 isn't of much use to him now.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:31 pm

Trunks is so strong thanks to his training. Of course Super Saiyan 3 will make him even stronger, like anyone else.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jplaya2023 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:30 pm

Bansho64 wrote:I have a hunch Toyotaro might have Trunks transform into SSJ3 for the fight. I don't know why, but it seems possible.

Unless vegeta takes trunks in the rosat (possible) or he dies and trains in otherworld (not likely) then he isn't turning into SSJ3 anytime soon

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:18 pm

3 is useless for Trunks if his superior SS2 gives him a boost that's almost on par with 3s then why the hell does he need 3 again? So he can stay that strong a minute longer before burning himself out? Considering the fact his near SS3 Goku strength is worthless fodder to Black, he'll need a lot more than 3 now. SSGod, at least.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:12 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:3 is useless for Trunks if his superior SS2 gives him a boost that's almost on par with 3s then why the hell does he need 3 again? So he can stay that strong a minute longer before burning himself out? Considering the fact his near SS3 Goku strength is worthless fodder to Black, he'll need a lot more than 3 now. SSGod, at least.
I think Toyatato should just go full ham and have Future Trunks become a Super Saiyan Blue out of nowhere, to the shock of everyone around him. It will really give more meaning to the phrase "Out of the blue...".

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:15 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:3 is useless for Trunks if his superior SS2 gives him a boost that's almost on par with 3s then why the hell does he need 3 again? So he can stay that strong a minute longer before burning himself out? Considering the fact his near SS3 Goku strength is worthless fodder to Black, he'll need a lot more than 3 now. SSGod, at least.
I think Toyatato should just go full ham and have Future Trunks become a Super Saiyan Blue out of nowhere, to the shock of everyone around him. It will really give more meaning to the phrase "Out of the blue...".
Well he doesn't specify if Trunks has Blue hair in the manga so that bit of anime awkwardness wouldn't come into play :P
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by alakazam^ » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:16 pm

TheMikado wrote:Like I said, I ask that you refrain from accusing me of things I didn't say/do. I appreciate your cooperation in refraining from incorrect personal accusations. Thank you in advance and apologize if my tone was harsh due to the nature of something being incorrectly attributed to me. As stated this was not a conversation started by me, I was contributing to an already in process conversation point.
I didn't said you said one was better than the other and I'm not obsessing about Toriyama. You don't seem to know what you're talking about.

I said you talked about Toriyama's laziness because that was what happened when the discussion wasn't about that at all, that's why I found it strange. Also, what's your point about the effort each puts into the manga? What's the conclusion one can get from it? What matters is the actual chapter each puts out because that's what we can analyze, not if they were depressed that week because of personal reasons.

Anyway, I'm done discussing this because it isn't improving the thread and has gone long enough anyway.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:01 am

I didn't said you said one was better than the other and I'm not obsessing about Toriyama. You don't seem to know what you're talking about.

I said you talked about Toriyama's laziness because that was what happened when the discussion wasn't about that at all.
Please read page 380 of this thread. I never once stated Toriyama is absolutely lazy. I ask that you refrain from stating there was no active discussion on it as it is completely false. It was an active conversation point being discussed which I merely replied to and you targeting me as the source of that conversation point is false. Please refrain from spreading this false information on the forum. Thank you. Again please stop posting false information about me. Thank you.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ssj_duelist » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:21 am

I don't know why it takes so long for these scans to leak, the yugioh stuff got revealed 2 days ago now nearly.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:29 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:3 is useless for Trunks if his superior SS2 gives him a boost that's almost on par with 3s then why the hell does he need 3 again? So he can stay that strong a minute longer before burning himself out? Considering the fact his near SS3 Goku strength is worthless fodder to Black, he'll need a lot more than 3 now. SSGod, at least.
Why would SS3 be useless? There is nothing saying that Trunks gets any different power boosts from his transformations than Goku & the other do. Trunks was first holding back against Goku to display the power he had when he achieved SS2, and then powered up to his full power to show him the power he obtained through even more training, since the power he had when he first turned SS2 didn't satisfy him but he didn't imagine that a form even further existed. Trunks still gets the regular x2 boost from SS2, and he would still get the regular x4 boost if he was to achieve SS3. But now that SSB has been discovered, this should be the next form Trunks should aim to achieve, like Vegeta did, so SS3 will most likely remain a video game thing for Trunks.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:36 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:3 is useless for Trunks if his superior SS2 gives him a boost that's almost on par with 3s then why the hell does he need 3 again? So he can stay that strong a minute longer before burning himself out? Considering the fact his near SS3 Goku strength is worthless fodder to Black, he'll need a lot more than 3 now. SSGod, at least.
Why would SS3 be useless? There is nothing saying that Trunks gets any different power boosts from his transformations than Goku & the other do. Trunks was first holding back against Goku to display the power he had when he achieved SS2, and then powered up to his full power to show him the power he obtained through even more training, since the power he had when he first turned SS2 didn't satisfy him but he didn't imagine that a form even further existed. Trunks still gets the regular x2 boost from SS2, and he would still get the regular x4 boost if he was to achieve SS3. But now that SSB has been discovered, this should be the next form Trunks should aim to achieve, like Vegeta did, so SS3 will most likely remain a video game thing for Trunks.
Ah, you think Trunks' increase comes from his base form? I can see the reasoning behind that but the way he powers up seems more like what Vegeta did when Bulma got slapped: he briefly surpasses the limits of SS2 to almost SS3 territory thanks to mastering 2. There's nothing wrong with Trunks' base being THAT strong but considering the fact Vegeta and Goku worked their asses off to just barely bypass Gohan, I can't see Trunks getting a 2-3 times better boost in a slightly longer period of time.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:18 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:3 is useless for Trunks if his superior SS2 gives him a boost that's almost on par with 3s then why the hell does he need 3 again? So he can stay that strong a minute longer before burning himself out? Considering the fact his near SS3 Goku strength is worthless fodder to Black, he'll need a lot more than 3 now. SSGod, at least.
Why would SS3 be useless? There is nothing saying that Trunks gets any different power boosts from his transformations than Goku & the other do. Trunks was first holding back against Goku to display the power he had when he achieved SS2, and then powered up to his full power to show him the power he obtained through even more training, since the power he had when he first turned SS2 didn't satisfy him but he didn't imagine that a form even further existed. Trunks still gets the regular x2 boost from SS2, and he would still get the regular x4 boost if he was to achieve SS3. But now that SSB has been discovered, this should be the next form Trunks should aim to achieve, like Vegeta did, so SS3 will most likely remain a video game thing for Trunks.
Ah, you think Trunks' increase comes from his base form? I can see the reasoning behind that but the way he powers up seems more like what Vegeta did when Bulma got slapped: he briefly surpasses the limits of SS2 to almost SS3 territory thanks to mastering 2. There's nothing wrong with Trunks' base being THAT strong but considering the fact Vegeta and Goku worked their asses off to just barely bypass Gohan, I can't see Trunks getting a 2-3 times better boost in a slightly longer period of time.
If it was the same thing Vegeta did, I think it would have been mentioned. Also, before Trunks powered up, he was said to be slightly stronger than SS2 Goku, and then he powered up to SS3 Goku's level. Back in BoG, Vegeta was at most as strong as Goku, perhaps slightly weaker, and then powered up at a level beyond SS3 Goku. Doesn't look lime the same thing to me. And if Vegeta could go SS3 back then, why wouldn't he get a rage boost in this form? Nothing says that he wouldn't.

As for how Trunks got so strong, he is a Saiyan Halfling, he is a greater prodigy than Goku & Vegeta. He was far weaker than base Future Gohan in his SS form when he was 14, and he reached his level after 3 years of training alone with no special means. Present Trunks had mastered Super Saiyan & surpassed Artificial Human #18, and perhaps even Piccolo, when he was 8 years old just by sparring with Goten for years. While he was growing at the same rate as Vegeta & stayed behind Goku when they entered inside the RoSaT, this was probably because he focused on SSG2 & SSG3 in his first day, and he hadn't fully mastered SS in his second day, plus maybe the way he trained wasn't effective anymore, and after he returned to the future he came up with more effective training methods to get stronger. For example, Future Gohan was obviously doing something wrong for him to be so weak compared to Goku before he died when he was such a greater prodigy.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:23 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:If it was the same thing Vegeta did, I think it would have been mentioned. Also, before Trunks powered up, he was said to be slightly stronger than SS2 Goku, and then he powered up to SS3 Goku's level. Back in BoG, Vegeta was at most as strong as Goku, perhaps slightly weaker, and then powered up at a level beyond SS3 Goku. Doesn't look lime the same thing to me. And if Vegeta could go SS3 back then, why wouldn't he get a rage boost in this form? Nothing says that he wouldn't.

As for how Trunks got so strong, he is a Saiyan Halfling, he is a greater prodigy than Goku & Vegeta. He was far weaker than base Future Gohan in his SS form when he was 14, and he reached his level after 3 years of training alone with no special means. Present Trunks had mastered Super Saiyan & surpassed Artificial Human #18, and perhaps even Piccolo, when he was 8 years old just by sparring with Goten for years. While he was growing at the same rate as Vegeta & stayed behind Goku when they entered inside the RoSaT, this was probably because he focused on SSG2 & SSG3 in his first day, and he hadn't fully mastered SS in his second day, plus maybe the way he trained wasn't effective anymore, and after he returned to the future he came up with more effective training methods to get stronger. For example, Future Gohan was obviously doing something wrong for him to be so weak compared to Goku before he died when he was such a greater prodigy.
It sure is treated as very similar to Vegeta's boost when it comes to the manga given how Toyotaro draws it and how it makes Trunks conveniently on almost equal footing to Goku the same way Vegeta's boosted SS2 did for him.

As for the Saiyan-halfling thing, he's nothing compared to any of the other ones, even his present self is vastly more powerful than him in the Boo Saga without anything approaching real training while Future Trunks spent his entire life barely getting past Namek era Goku. There's also the fact Trunks has nothing but himself and possibly a gravity machine to train with the same way his father did for a decade, meaning that there's no reason for this shittier Trunks, who was the weakest Super Saiyan in the Cell Games, to become many times more powerful than all the other base Saiyan's thus far.

It makes considerably more sense for Trunks' SS2 to have gotten extra juice thanks to mastery/improvements than that if you ask me.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:30 pm

Well, I can't see any implications about Trunks having improved SS2 or anything like that, and if it was the same thing Vegeta did against Beerus, he would have surpassed Goku. What I see is Trunks basically telling Goku "I became a SS2, but because I wasn't satisfied with it's power & didn't think that a form beyond it existed, I trained and became even stronger for over a decade". I don't see any implication that SS3 would be useless either.

Also, Future Trunks didn't spend his entire life to reach Namek arc Goku's level, he did that with only 3 years of training alone.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:06 pm

So I heard "spoilers" from the manga that Black kill all Kaioshins and Hakaishin from all universes, well I can say I don't believe in such thing silly as this, is a lie isn't?
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