How does Golden Frieza fare off against fighters in GT

[Darkprince410]

In the manga Beerus said SSG>ssgss

If you're referring to the battle between Super Saiyan God Goku fought Hit in the manga, It was explained that the only reason why Super Saiyan God Goku was stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta was because the latter lost 90% of his power due to turning Blue twice.

Still stronger.

All that means is that Ssj Blue Vegeta at 10% of his power is weaker than Ssj God Goku at 100% of his power, which doesn't in any way contradict Ssj Blue at 100% being stronger than Ssj God at 100%. There's no inconsistency there.

[Lord Frieza]

Well one problem with comparing series is that of progression. GT for its part has the characters progress natural using methods seen befor in the series, transformation and training for our heroes and power stealing for villian

Super on the other hand brings in a lot of new methods for out heroes to get stronger, primarily god power which is by definitions supernatural. This is a power that don't conform to any of the pre-existing rules in the series. Hell stander SSG allowed Goku to fight someone who Vegito would not stand a chance against. That implies a ridicules power increase that dwarfs anything seen before.

Both series do struggle in the area of actual feats but their are some, the aforementioned Goku and Beerus clash statements and we also have Oozaru Baby being unable to destroy earth with a signature attack, which even if uncharged should have been easily withing his power.

Also unlike the GT villain, Super's villains also progress in ways that seem almost ridiculous. Baby and S17 steal other power to become so ridiculously strong while Super Frieza was able to achieve in a matter of months what has taken Goku and Vegeta years. Hit is able to improve his power and skills in seconds and Black was able to overcome our heroes in a matter of days! In many ways Supers villains almost seem to be genre savvy and decided to beat the heroes at their own game by training hard.

And this is kind of what I'm getting at, GT was made hot on the heels of Dragon Ball and while it did throw a few new things in and had some good ideas, it never really got out from under its shadow. Most of what GT dose stays within the Z era formula.

Super on the other hand has been made many years later, in a world that has long since passed Dragon Ball, were new ideas ad concepts have grown in its wake. Super is vary aware of its passed and is trying to do something different, for all the good and bad that entails. Super dose not conform to the old rules of dragon ball (which I don't find strange as DB's rules literally change from saga to saga) and you can't quantify many of Super characters and powers such as Beerus, god ki, SSG, Frieza's true potential, SSB, HIt or Goku Black with our old, out dated ideas, rules, power scaling, power levels and limitations.

So it's ok for Black to go from ssj2 to ssjb but it's not fair for Super 17 to do the same? Black didn't train for his power. It's ok for Frieza to jump from less than ssj to beyond ssjb but it is not ok for Baby to do the same? It is ok for dragon ball super characters to due the most ridiculous things just like GT but you accept what super does and not GT?

Goku said ''I think'' he thinks Vegito could not beat Beerus. This is idea was not tested so i don't know why people say it is fact. Beerus would beat Super Vegito is a fact but Vegito could go ssj2 or 3 for the matter just like Gotenks. Baby couldn't destroy earth yet Goku's x10 kamehameha on Hit didn't destroy a thing neither. Heck Black still has not destroyed earth yet as we type to each other

You say we can't use this so called ''formula'' because it's a new idea? Rubbish. If GT was made hot on wheels then super was made from leftover junk because it is just as bad.

Wow I'm detecting a lot of very unnecessary hostility.

I said nothing about Super 17 and Baby being BS all I was doing was comparing how different they were to supers characters. In no way did I imply that I though they were inferior. In fact I'll have you know Baby is one of my favorite villains. Really get off your angry high horse and read what I have written properly.

You call what Super dose ridicules ok, well then lets look at dragon ball shall we. Were was the zenkai power before the Frieza are and why dose it magically disappear after. Who dose Cell get Zenkai when the saiyans don't? No reason what so ever is given. Why can Goku gain more power then Vegeta despite spending less then half as much time in the time room? After two years even without SSFP he should have been stronger then Goku. Were dose the "concentrating your power into an attack to increase your power level" go after their fight with Raditz? As I have said the rules of dragon ball change from arc to arc. So calling it rubbish is in and of its self rubbish because the series moves the goal posts when ever it wants and dose frequently. As for GT, Why dose SS4 even exist when it was never hinted at before (that's the same problem SS3 and God have but it can be laid at SS4's feet just as easily)? why is it that fusion to android arc 17s makes a character stronger then Vegeta or Majuub and the combined power of everyone else despite him never absorbing their energy befor hand? Why did none think to mention the dragon balls limits? Why is Goku having so much trouble the lightning and wind dragons when he clearly out matchs them? Why doesn't he just go SS4 or at least SS? Why dose being made a kid stop Goku from teleporting? Why are just Goku, Trunks and Pan going when the whole world is in danger? You get my drift here?

When it comes to comparing GT and Super in quality I say to both side "People in glass houses should not throw stones" because I can pick holes in both your arguments until the day I dye. For every problem you bring up about one series I can counter with another for the other.

In re-guards to Vegito, your telling me that if you fused with someone and knew who strong you were, that if you came across someone who you could tell was probably stronger then your fusion you would still try it out just to check? Thats stupid thinking at best and suicidal at worst. Whats the point of that act? I (an average person) know when some punchs me (which has happened) if they are stronger then me and I can accurately compare that to other people based on how their punchs felt and the resulting damage. I can also tell by a persons physic and body language how much force they put into the punch and if they were holding back. Now you tell me how Goku, a veteran fighter, is wrong about Beerus's strength in relation to Vegito.

The entire point you missed is this. Time and peoples minds are not static, its been years since Dragon Ball aired and a lot of of other anime and ideas have come and gone in that time. Super has got all that to play with plus its hind sight of everything dragon ball (that includes GT) allowing it to do things that would never have been though of all those years ago. That IS simple logic and trying to say its rubbish is just as much rubbish as me saying "GT was just a despret attempt to squeeze more money out of dragon ball and it had no new ideas at all". Which I did not say.

[Perfectionist-Cell]

Well one problem with comparing series is that of progression. GT for its part has the characters progress natural using methods seen befor in the series, transformation and training for our heroes and power stealing for villian

Super on the other hand brings in a lot of new methods for out heroes to get stronger, primarily god power which is by definitions supernatural. This is a power that don't conform to any of the pre-existing rules in the series. Hell stander SSG allowed Goku to fight someone who Vegito would not stand a chance against. That implies a ridicules power increase that dwarfs anything seen before.

Both series do struggle in the area of actual feats but their are some, the aforementioned Goku and Beerus clash statements and we also have Oozaru Baby being unable to destroy earth with a signature attack, which even if uncharged should have been easily withing his power.

Also unlike the GT villain, Super's villains also progress in ways that seem almost ridiculous. Baby and S17 steal other power to become so ridiculously strong while Super Frieza was able to achieve in a matter of months what has taken Goku and Vegeta years. Hit is able to improve his power and skills in seconds and Black was able to overcome our heroes in a matter of days! In many ways Supers villains almost seem to be genre savvy and decided to beat the heroes at their own game by training hard.

And this is kind of what I'm getting at, GT was made hot on the heels of Dragon Ball and while it did throw a few new things in and had some good ideas, it never really got out from under its shadow. Most of what GT dose stays within the Z era formula.

Super on the other hand has been made many years later, in a world that has long since passed Dragon Ball, were new ideas ad concepts have grown in its wake. Super is vary aware of its passed and is trying to do something different, for all the good and bad that entails. Super dose not conform to the old rules of dragon ball (which I don't find strange as DB's rules literally change from saga to saga) and you can't quantify many of Super characters and powers such as Beerus, god ki, SSG, Frieza's true potential, SSB, HIt or Goku Black with our old, out dated ideas, rules, power scaling, power levels and limitations.

So it's ok for Black to go from ssj2 to ssjb but it's not fair for Super 17 to do the same? Black didn't train for his power. It's ok for Frieza to jump from less than ssj to beyond ssjb but it is not ok for Baby to do the same? It is ok for dragon ball super characters to due the most ridiculous things just like GT but you accept what super does and not GT?

Goku said ''I think'' he thinks Vegito could not beat Beerus. This is idea was not tested so i don't know why people say it is fact. Beerus would beat Super Vegito is a fact but Vegito could go ssj2 or 3 for the matter just like Gotenks. Baby couldn't destroy earth yet Goku's x10 kamehameha on Hit didn't destroy a thing neither. Heck Black still has not destroyed earth yet as we type to each other

You say we can't use this so called ''formula'' because it's a new idea? Rubbish. If GT was made hot on wheels then super was made from leftover junk because it is just as bad.

Wow I'm detecting a lot of very unnecessary hostility.

I said nothing about Super 17 and Baby being BS all I was doing was comparing how different they were to supers characters. In no way did I imply that I though they were inferior. In fact I'll have you know Baby is one of my favorite villains. Really get off your angry high horse and read what I have written properly.

You call what Super dose ridicules ok, well then lets look at dragon ball shall we. Were was the zenkai power before the Frieza are and why dose it magically disappear after. Who dose Cell get Zenkai when the saiyans don't? No reason what so ever is given. Why can Goku gain more power then Vegeta despite spending less then half as much time in the time room? After two years even without SSFP he should have been stronger then Goku. Were dose the "concentrating your power into an attack to increase your power level" go after their fight with Raditz? As I have said the rules of dragon ball change from arc to arc. So calling it rubbish is in and of its self rubbish because the series moves the goal posts when ever it wants and dose frequently. As for GT, Why dose SS4 even exist when it was never hinted at before (that's the same problem SS3 and God have but it can be laid at SS4's feet just as easily)? why is it that fusion to android arc 17s makes a character stronger then Vegeta or Majuub and the combined power of everyone else despite him never absorbing their energy befor hand? Why did none think to mention the dragon balls limits? Why is Goku having so much trouble the lightning and wind dragons when he clearly out matchs them? Why doesn't he just go SS4 or at least SS? Why dose being made a kid stop Goku from teleporting? Why are just Goku, Trunks and Pan going when the whole world is in danger? You get my drift here?

When it comes to comparing GT and Super in quality I say to both side "People in glass houses should not throw stones" because I can pick holes in both your arguments until the day I dye. For every problem you bring up about one series I can counter with another for the other.

In re-guards to Vegito, your telling me that if you fused with someone and knew who strong you were, that if you came across someone who you could tell was probably stronger then your fusion you would still try it out just to check? Thats stupid thinking at best and suicidal at worst. Whats the point of that act? I (an average person) know when some punchs me (which has happened) if they are stronger then me and I can accurately compare that to other people based on how their punchs felt and the resulting damage. I can also tell by a persons physic and body language how much force they put into the punch and if they were holding back. Now you tell me how Goku, a veteran fighter, is wrong about Beerus's strength in relation to Vegito.

The entire point you missed is this. Time and peoples minds are not static, its been years since Dragon Ball aired and a lot of of other anime and ideas have come and gone in that time. Super has got all that to play with plus its hind sight of everything dragon ball (that includes GT) allowing it to do things that would never have been though of all those years ago. That IS simple logic and trying to say its rubbish is just as much rubbish as me saying "GT was just a despret attempt to squeeze more money out of dragon ball and it had no new ideas at all". Which I did not say.

What does DBZ have to do with GT and Super being compared?

You're right i should get off my high horse i read that wrong. I apologize for that.

Goku said Freeza was bluffing when Freeza said he was using 1% yet was proved wrong. I don't get why this can't be the same with Vegito. Like i said Vegito still has ssj3 and Goku thinks it wouldn't be enough. He doesn't even say if it will be a stomp.

[Perfectionist-Cell]

If you're referring to the battle between Super Saiyan God Goku fought Hit in the manga, It was explained that the only reason why Super Saiyan God Goku was stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta was because the latter lost 90% of his power due to turning Blue twice.

Still stronger.

All that means is that Ssj Blue Vegeta at 10% of his power is weaker than Ssj God Goku at 100% of his power, which doesn't in any way contradict Ssj Blue at 100% being stronger than Ssj God at 100%. There's no inconsistency there.

Where did you get 10%?

[TheMikado]

As other have point out Super sets new rules and standards in regards to power levels, etc.

The major issue I would state interms of GT level powers vs Super power levels is that if taken at face value with out being merely for dramatic emphasis, the characters are no longer "part" of the universe, story, and world of Dragonball. At this point Super characters have the ability to casually finger flick the universe out of existence entirely and multiple chapters casually have this raw unbridled power through incredibly short training regimens. This is why the feats have to be taken with a grain of salt in Super because they have reached the point of pure obsurdity. When Trunks(a secondary character) as a SSJ2 likely has the ability to finger flick the universe out of existence ( if you subscribe to the two base theory) I would consider your narrative broken.

[Darkprince410]

Still stronger.

All that means is that Ssj Blue Vegeta at 10% of his power is weaker than Ssj God Goku at 100% of his power, which doesn't in any way contradict Ssj Blue at 100% being stronger than Ssj God at 100%. There's no inconsistency there.

Where did you get 10%?

That's what's stated in the manga about it. When Beerus and Whis are talking about why Ssj God Goku was doing well against Hit while Ssj Blue Vegeta wasn't, Whis commented that Vegeta wasn't able to even exert 10% of his power because Ssj Blue is a form that cannot be transformed into repeatedly without putting an incredible drain on his stamina. So Goku was only doing better against Hit than Vegeta was because Goku was at 100% while Vegeta was only at ~10%

[Lord Frieza]

So it's ok for Black to go from ssj2 to ssjb but it's not fair for Super 17 to do the same? Black didn't train for his power. It's ok for Frieza to jump from less than ssj to beyond ssjb but it is not ok for Baby to do the same? It is ok for dragon ball super characters to due the most ridiculous things just like GT but you accept what super does and not GT?

Goku said ''I think'' he thinks Vegito could not beat Beerus. This is idea was not tested so i don't know why people say it is fact. Beerus would beat Super Vegito is a fact but Vegito could go ssj2 or 3 for the matter just like Gotenks. Baby couldn't destroy earth yet Goku's x10 kamehameha on Hit didn't destroy a thing neither. Heck Black still has not destroyed earth yet as we type to each other

You say we can't use this so called ''formula'' because it's a new idea? Rubbish. If GT was made hot on wheels then super was made from leftover junk because it is just as bad.

Wow I'm detecting a lot of very unnecessary hostility.

I said nothing about Super 17 and Baby being BS all I was doing was comparing how different they were to supers characters. In no way did I imply that I though they were inferior. In fact I'll have you know Baby is one of my favorite villains. Really get off your angry high horse and read what I have written properly.

You call what Super dose ridicules ok, well then lets look at dragon ball shall we. Were was the zenkai power before the Frieza are and why dose it magically disappear after. Who dose Cell get Zenkai when the saiyans don't? No reason what so ever is given. Why can Goku gain more power then Vegeta despite spending less then half as much time in the time room? After two years even without SSFP he should have been stronger then Goku. Were dose the "concentrating your power into an attack to increase your power level" go after their fight with Raditz? As I have said the rules of dragon ball change from arc to arc. So calling it rubbish is in and of its self rubbish because the series moves the goal posts when ever it wants and dose frequently. As for GT, Why dose SS4 even exist when it was never hinted at before (that's the same problem SS3 and God have but it can be laid at SS4's feet just as easily)? why is it that fusion to android arc 17s makes a character stronger then Vegeta or Majuub and the combined power of everyone else despite him never absorbing their energy befor hand? Why did none think to mention the dragon balls limits? Why is Goku having so much trouble the lightning and wind dragons when he clearly out matchs them? Why doesn't he just go SS4 or at least SS? Why dose being made a kid stop Goku from teleporting? Why are just Goku, Trunks and Pan going when the whole world is in danger? You get my drift here?

When it comes to comparing GT and Super in quality I say to both side "People in glass houses should not throw stones" because I can pick holes in both your arguments until the day I dye. For every problem you bring up about one series I can counter with another for the other.

In re-guards to Vegito, your telling me that if you fused with someone and knew who strong you were, that if you came across someone who you could tell was probably stronger then your fusion you would still try it out just to check? Thats stupid thinking at best and suicidal at worst. Whats the point of that act? I (an average person) know when some punchs me (which has happened) if they are stronger then me and I can accurately compare that to other people based on how their punchs felt and the resulting damage. I can also tell by a persons physic and body language how much force they put into the punch and if they were holding back. Now you tell me how Goku, a veteran fighter, is wrong about Beerus's strength in relation to Vegito.

The entire point you missed is this. Time and peoples minds are not static, its been years since Dragon Ball aired and a lot of of other anime and ideas have come and gone in that time. Super has got all that to play with plus its hind sight of everything dragon ball (that includes GT) allowing it to do things that would never have been though of all those years ago. That IS simple logic and trying to say its rubbish is just as much rubbish as me saying "GT was just a despret attempt to squeeze more money out of dragon ball and it had no new ideas at all". Which I did not say.

What does DBZ have to do with GT and Super being compared?

You're right i should get off my high horse i read that wrong. I apologize for that.

Goku said Freeza was bluffing when Freeza said he was using 1% yet was proved wrong. I don't get why this can't be the same with Vegito. Like i said Vegito still has ssj3 and Goku thinks it wouldn't be enough. He doesn't even say if it will be a stomp.

I mention Dragon Ball to show that even before GT or Super came along there were some rather glaring issues with the prime series own cannon and story rules. In essence Dragon Ball universal rules and laws change form arc to arc, so why take issue when GT or Super likewise dose so. Unfortunately Dragon Ball is not like many modern or even its contemporary shonan manga, its continuity is very.....malleable to say the least.

Thanks I accept you apology and likewise apologist if I have come across rude at all.

The problem is in the situation with Frieza, Goku had never fought against someone with that big of an edge over him befor. Vegeta was Goku's toughest fight before that and even then he was only just over twice as strong as Goku (Vegeta 18'000 to Goku's 8'000) and Goku could surpass him with a kaio-ken x3. Frieza on the other hand was almost 50x stronger then Goku at full power. Frieza was the enemy to truly have Goku's back against the wall, every attack failed, every strategy failed. That since that fight Goku never underestimated a fight, he accurately judged Cell and Buu's power and never understated them. Nether did he underestimate any of his GT foes. Beerus however presented a very different problem, Goku could not sense his ki. Goku only began to understand how strong Beerus was after he started getting hit.

Even if its not a stomp, the last thing Goku wants to do is make Beerus angry unnecessarily or waste his time. Both of which will get the earth blown up. Goku knows how strong Vegito is and how the SS multipliers work and likely though that the risk was to great. SS3 especially is a big gamble to take as in every cannon fight passed fat buu using it has almost always back fired, with Goku passing out and Gotenks being limited to 5 to 10 minute fusion. Both of those situations could very likely happen (Vegito passing out and Gogeta defusing) leaving them powerless in the face of a very angry Beerus.

Now yes they had no idea if SSG was even going to work but Beerus thought this god power was something note worthy it was worth a try. Which it did turn out to be in a round about way as its given Goku access to a who new type of power. Since then Goku or Vegeta have never considered that fusion would have been the best option since then, so its clear that this whole god ritual thing must have been a better option then fusion even in hind sight.

[nickzambuto]

According to guidebooks & video-games (well, one guidebook, Chozenshuu #4, & one video-game, XenoVerse), BoG/FnF and GT take place in the same continuity. So, Super Baby 1 is stronger than Golden Freeza, and even Whis.

Redgic seems to be stronger as well, since he forced Goku to go Super Saiyan, while Goku could easily beat Freeza in Hell, who should be at least as strong as FnF Freeza.

I assume that Golden Freeza is a God, similar to God Goku and Beerus. Therefore, I think that pretty much any God-level¹ character could wipe the floor with any non-God character, Omega Shenron included.

¹ This means Dende is not included.

If that's the case, how did Goku, the rest of the Z-Senshi, and the villains, surpass Kami, Kaio, and Kaioshin? Daimao could kill Shenlong, Goku & Piccolo surpassed Kami in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai, Kaio admitted that Vegeta & Nappa were stronger than him, and the Super Saiyans & Dabra were stronger than Kaioshin, not to mention that Boo defeated all 5 of them in the past, with 2 of them ending up dead.

And why would Freeza even be a god to begin with? A god of what?

God of being Freeza.
God of Cold puns.
God of Laziness.
God of Four Months.
God of Hoverchairs.

Take your pick. If something as super specific as a Super Saiyan God can exist, then you can be a god of anything in Dragon Ball. Apparently it isn't limited to grand abstract concepts like destruction and life; you can be God of Toasters.

[Tsufuru]

nothing in GT comes close to what ssg and beerus did , feats or statement.

frieza beats all.

[King13s]

But yeah SSGSSJ> SSG > SSJ4

See, this is the closest I agree with.

The super Saiyan God form is special. It seems to utilize energy around it, and also has litteraly the power of a god to effect the universe.

I personally think that while SSGSS/SSBlue is a stronger fighting form, it is not as powerful due to the lack of reality manipulation powers.

Everyone forgets that similar things happened in GT. Just by SS4 Goku and Super 17 fighting, the world was crumbling from their backlash. While this isn't because of godly power, it is due to their raw power being so hella crazy. Like when in other fights mountains would shatter and the sky would be distorted.

So I guess I'm in the camp that places SS4 at par or slightly above with SSBlue, but the caveat being that I think SSG is a completely alternate form with separate powers. I mean, no other form draws in energy and heals the fighter.

[Saiyan007]

I personally think that while SSGSS/SSBlue is a stronger fighting form, it is not as powerful due to the lack of reality manipulation powers.

What reality manipulation power does SSJ4have that's so noteworthy?

Everyone forgets that similar things happened in GT. Just by SS4 Goku and Super 17 fighting, the world was crumbling from their backlash. While this isn't because of godly power, it is due to their raw power being so hella crazy. Like when in other fights mountains would shatter and the sky would be distorted.

I don't ever recall the world being threatened solely because Goku and 17 were fighting you mind providing evidence of that?

So I guess I'm in the camp that places SS4 at par or slightly above with SSBlue, but the caveat being that I think SSG is a completely alternate form with separate powers. I mean, no other form draws in energy and heals the fighter.

Except that regular Super Saiyan God gives the user more than enough energy to destroy the universe via physical attacks and energy attacks which makes It far stronger than SSJ4 not to mention it can't be sensed.

[floofychan333]

He easily defeats everyone. Enough said.