"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[ekrolo2]

Trunks' power is a bit iffy here but considering the fact he's the weakest Super Saiyan when the Cell Games happen, I can see his Z-sword training + whatever he did by himself getting him to Gohan's pre-ritual level of power. Strong enough to last against Dabura but not good enough to beat him.

[OLKv3]

Trunks' power is a bit iffy here but considering the fact he's the weakest Super Saiyan when the Cell Games happen, I can see his Z-sword training + whatever he did by himself getting him to Gohan's pre-ritual level of power. Strong enough to last against Dabura but not good enough to beat him.

Reminder that the only reason Gohan got so strong with the Z Sword is because he was a SSJ2. Trunks was only SSJ1. He didn't unlock SSJ2 until Kibito died.

[ekrolo2]

Trunks' power is a bit iffy here but considering the fact he's the weakest Super Saiyan when the Cell Games happen, I can see his Z-sword training + whatever he did by himself getting him to Gohan's pre-ritual level of power. Strong enough to last against Dabura but not good enough to beat him.

Reminder that the only reason Gohan got so strong with the Z Sword is because he was a SSJ2. Trunks was only SSJ1. He didn't unlock SSJ2 until Kibito died.

Oh yeah! I totally forgot that he trained with SS2

[LightBing]

Thank you for the translation Herms.

It seems in this version Babidi got the necessary energy to resurrect Boo from other planets. I assume he came to Earth saw the weak and scarce humans and decided to get the energy somewhere else, which took him a few years.
Kaioshin had a better plan this time. He was tracking Babidi, how did he miss Dabra?! His future version is as incompetent as the present one, he still repeated the mistake of letting Babidi get the necessary energy and only then confronting him.
I'm satisfied with how this conflict turned out in the future, it ties everything together.

Altought it wouldn't matter, Beerus ironically helped his own death by sealing Old Kai in the sword. I assume the Old Kai still matters to the God link, due to Toyotarõ going out of his way to kill him.

Finally the biggest news, Black got rid of all of the Kaioshins! I'm gonna need to see Black being persecuted by Zeno-chan or something, I find it very hard to belief that such a colossal event would go unnoticed.
It's a necessity that this is explained, or else the whole Universe and caring for balance turns into a farce. Certainly Whis and Vados took notice and action in the fact that Beerus and Champa died.

[ekrolo2]

Altought it wouldn't matter, Beerus ironically helped his own death by sealing Old Kai in the sword. I assume the Old Kai still matters to the God link, due to Toyotarõ going out of his way to kill him.

Finally the biggest news, Black got rid of all of the Kaioshins! I'm gonna need to see Black being persecuted by Zeno-chan or something, I find it very hard to belief that such a colossal event would go unnoticed.
It's a necessity that this is explained, or else the whole Universe and caring for balance turns into a farce. Certainly Whis and Vados took notice and action in the fact that Beerus and Champa died.

That is a problem with the overall story in both versions. I can see Zeno not caring because he's got that kind like mentality to him(and he destroyed a third of the multiverse without batting an eye) but Whis and Vados not batting an eye at their Gods being dead is forced.

[LightBing]

Altought it wouldn't matter, Beerus ironically helped his own death by sealing Old Kai in the sword. I assume the Old Kai still matters to the God link, due to Toyotarõ going out of his way to kill him.

Finally the biggest news, Black got rid of all of the Kaioshins! I'm gonna need to see Black being persecuted by Zeno-chan or something, I find it very hard to belief that such a colossal event would go unnoticed.
It's a necessity that this is explained, or else the whole Universe and caring for balance turns into a farce. Certainly Whis and Vados took notice and action in the fact that Beerus and Champa died.

That is a problem with the overall story in both versions. I can see Zeno not caring because he's got that kind like mentality to him(and he destroyed a third of the multiverse without batting an eye) but Whis and Vados not batting an eye at their Gods being dead is forced.

I wouldn't call it a problem yet since the arc isn't over. A simple Black can cloak himself would suffice, the Gods aren't omniscient. Zeno does somewhat care for balance, he went out of his way to slap Beerus and Champa's wrists at the tournament. Altought the later information that he destroyed a third of it is conflicting. Maybe he only works on Mondays...

[ekrolo2]

I wouldn't call it a problem yet since the arc isn't over. A simple Black can cloak himself would suffice, the Gods aren't omniscient. Zeno does somewhat care for balance, he went out of his way to slap Beerus and Champa's wrists at the tournament. Altought the later information that he destroyed a third of it is conflicting. Maybe he only works on Mondays...

I'm gonna chalk up the attendants not knowing as them thinking their Gods are still asleep

Hey, it wouldn't be the first time Super did something like that.

[LightBing]

I wouldn't call it a problem yet since the arc isn't over. A simple Black can cloak himself would suffice, the Gods aren't omniscient. Zeno does somewhat care for balance, he went out of his way to slap Beerus and Champa's wrists at the tournament. Altought the later information that he destroyed a third of it is conflicting. Maybe he only works on Mondays...

I'm gonna chalk up the attendants not knowing as them thinking their Gods are still asleep

Hey, it wouldn't be the first time Super did something like that.

That's really a stretch. Maybe the attendants can't act and must only inform the "God Police". Whis didn't even wonder or comment what happened with his future self, that's a bit weird.
We don't know much about Whis and his race. While we call him God, we don't actually know. They might have an overseer role with some unspecified rules.
Honestly there's like a thousand ways to explain this, I just want an explanation before the arc is done.
This isn't one of those situation where the reader should fill the gaps.

[ekrolo2]

That's really a stretch. Maybe the attendants can't act and must only inform the "God Police". Whis didn't even wonder or comment what happened with his future self, that's a bit weird.
We don't know much about Whis and his race. While we call him God, we don't actually know. They might have an overseer role with some unspecified rules.
Honestly there's like a thousand ways to explain this, I just want an explanation before the arc is done.
This isn't one of those situation where the reader should fill the gaps.

Oh its a stretch but Super kind of has a thing of explaining certain story elements that way. Like how an incredibly powerful mech alien thing can take on a really powerful Super Saiyan but gets completely demoralized if you call him a mean thing.

But yeah, I would like an actual explanation for all of this too and I hope the manga provides one. They've certainly got a lot of ways to go about doing so, especially if you have Zamasu confront Zuno like the anime, a character who can inform Zamasu on all sorts of abilities throughout the universe. Like say, being invisible to Gods or something. If Bobidi could stay hidden for millions of years through some unknown means, there's already a precedent for such an ability.

[Pannaliciour]

Questions

How much time was passed after Trunks defeated cell in future time line and he actually becoming ssj2 against dabura?

And how much time was passed between first time ssj2 trunks and Trunks vs ssj2 Goku?

[ekrolo2]

Questions

How much time was passed after Trunks defeated cell in future time line and he actually becoming ssj2 against dabura?

And how much time was passed between first time ssj2 trunks and Trunks vs ssj2 Goku?

The narrator says that the fight against Dabura happened several years ago in Trunks' timeline, possibly even before he kills his version of Cell if his outfit is any indication. He says he fought Black for a year up until this point so there was a fair few years in-between Blacks rampage and them stopping Boo from happening.

[Pannaliciour]

Black is going around killing all the gods, and apparently knows not to underestimate Saiyans. Just who is he? It's also been confirmed that he was hopping through timelines looking for one where Beerus was dead. He said all the gods are dead, does that include Zeno?

Hmm good one. Maybe there is a life-death connection between Zeno and all of the God of destructions,like the connection of god of destructions and kaioshin

But then again Zeno lifes in another time zone i think. There is no future Zeno at all.

[Pannaliciour]

Questions

How much time was passed after Trunks defeated cell in future time line and he actually becoming ssj2 against dabura?

And how much time was passed between first time ssj2 trunks and Trunks vs ssj2 Goku?

The narrator says that the fight against Dabura happened several years ago in Trunks' timeline, possibly even before he kills his version of Cell if his outfit is any indication. He says he fought Black for a year up until this point so there was a fair few years in-between Blacks rampage and them stopping Boo from happening.

Hmm damm i wanted to know if he did had really enough time to master ssj2. Because it took Goku max 7 years to become ssj3.

Either way great potential Vegeta's son.

[LightBing]

Oh its a stretch but Super kind of has a thing of explaining certain story elements that way. Like how an incredibly powerful mech alien thing can take on a really powerful Super Saiyan but gets completely demoralized if you call him a mean thing.

But yeah, I would like an actual explanation for all of this too and I hope the manga provides one. They've certainly got a lot of ways to go about doing so, especially if you have Zamasu confront Zuno like the anime, a character who can inform Zamasu on all sorts of abilities throughout the universe. Like say, being invisible to Gods or something. If Bobidi could stay hidden for millions of years through some unknown means, there's already a precedent for such an ability.

I wouldn't qualify your example as fitting. You're looking at it biased and only taking established information as "convincing", in this case Super Saiyan. Let me twist it around: how can a monkey like humanoid turn blonde and incredibility powerful just because he got angry once, so much he defeats this clearly established alien whose high durability it's his main characteristic and with some decent power to bout.

This isn't a case of explaining because it doesn't need one, Super Saiyans exist just because, Magetta and his ultra durable race exist just because, Namekians have four fingers just because, etc...
We were never given rules that contradict their existence.
Regarding the discussion in hand there's an actual idea established, there's a need for balance in the Universe and characters with roles to protect it.

Usually the information Dragon Ball brushes off is the "where were x people in that arc" kind. Not just Super but Dragon Ball in general. While I mistrust the anime to provide an explanation, the manga appears to be trying and not letting any lose ends.

[Mazingerdestro]

So Trunks turned ssj2 in battle?
Not a bad idea.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Altought it wouldn't matter, Beerus ironically helped his own death by sealing Old Kai in the sword. I assume the Old Kai still matters to the God link, due to Toyotarõ going out of his way to kill him.

Finally the biggest news, Black got rid of all of the Kaioshins! I'm gonna need to see Black being persecuted by Zeno-chan or something, I find it very hard to belief that such a colossal event would go unnoticed.
It's a necessity that this is explained, or else the whole Universe and caring for balance turns into a farce. Certainly Whis and Vados took notice and action in the fact that Beerus and Champa died.

That is a problem with the overall story in both versions. I can see Zeno not caring because he's got that kind like mentality to him(and he destroyed a third of the multiverse without batting an eye) but Whis and Vados not batting an eye at their Gods being dead is forced.

I mean if your a servant and your master died would you really be that gutted? I'd imagine they'd piss off to U5 or something and just relax and enjoy the universe delicacies.

[HeroR]

I have several issues with this chapter.

The first, why didn't Black kill Trunks when he clearly had the chance? Trunks was weak from fighting Dabura and he had the chance to wiped out a future threat. So, why didn't he? This seems to go against Black's character as a pragmatic. I also don't see why he didn't attack the Earth while he was there, but I guess this could be justified by him killing Kais. Also, how did Trunks gets so strong if he was struggling this much with Dabura after getting the Z-Sword? I mean, how much did he train and how many years did it take him to get his Super Saiyan form up to par with Super Saiyan 3 Goku?

Two, why is Dabura so powerful? A rusty Gohan fight him to a standstill and would have eventually won, yet Z-Sword wielding Trunks needed help to take him out and the Supreme Kai died? I don't see Dabura as the training type because he tends to overestimate people, like he did the Saiyans all through the Buu Saga. Even Goku and Vegeta going Super Saiyan 2 didn't fazed him, despite them being much stronger than Gohan.

Three, where the hell are Whis, Vados, and the other attendances? Gods of Destruction and Kais are dropping dead, and they don't feel the need to informed Zen-O or the Grand Priest? Come on, someone should have should have sounded the alarm by now. The god system is under attack.

This last one is the most mind numbing and I hope the manga explains it. Otherwise, everyone just took the idiot ball.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

The high-ranking gods should be killing Black right now. I don't even care that much for plot holes, But this chapter is about to create a shitload of them.

And Zeno should have killed black already. He noticed Champa and Beerus having a tournement,but can't notice all 12 god of destruction dying?

Even if he didn't Whis,Vados and all the other attendants should have reported to him that their respective gods of destruction are dead.

I can point so many plot holes with this chapter and the answer it gave us and other things wrong with,but I don't feel like it.

Hell, this entire event should have been left undetailed like with the anime,(Because with the anime we only have confirmation that future Beerus is dead.) but the answer the manga gave us only raised hundreds of other questions.

[Kishido]

Awesome chapter. Better told as in the anime.

Still like in the anime why no one as Whis or Vados are doing something against Black?

Hell even more Zeno? He should be bothered much if all gods are gone to overlook HIS universes

[HeroR]

I just had another thought. In the manga attempt to make Trunks look more badass, they actually made him look weaker than his anime counterpart.

Despite having the Z-Sword and training with the Supreme Kai to prepare for Babidi, he struggles against Dabura, get the Z-Sword broken which kills Old Kai, the Supreme Kai get fatally wounded, and he only beats Dabura by the Supreme Kai binding him. While anime Trunks took out Dabura and Babidi by himself after a hard earned fight without any prior training from the Supreme Kai, he just got tips or pointers, and the Supreme Kai didn't die in that battle (if he did, I think the anime would have mentioned it, so if the Supreme Kai is dead, I think Black may had killed him on a later date).

Awesome chapter. Better told as in the anime.

Still like in the anime why no one as Whis or Vados are doing something against Black?

Hell even more Zeno? He should be bothered much if all gods are gone to overlook HIS universes

In the anime, it was never said or even implied that Black killed any of the Kais. We don't even know if the Future Supreme Kai is even dead in the anime. So Whis and especially Vados, would have no reason to act against Black.