Toyotaro Goku & Toei Goku

[Bansho64]

Yeah, Toyotaro's Goku seems smarter and more mature than Toei's Goku currently.
Also

If you like the Dragonball Goku and Ruffy of One Piece you will like Goku in Super only hardcore dbz fans will have their problems...

This isn't true at all. I've met regular, casual fans of DB who don't like Super's portrayal of the character.

[Scarz]

I'm oblivious as all hell, I'm not noticing the difference between Toei's Goku and Toyotaro. Maybe someone can give me examples of this or a list of side by side comparisons from the manga and the anime?

[Gig]

I'm oblivious as all hell, I'm not noticing the difference between Toei's Goku and Toyotaro. Maybe someone can give me examples of this or a list of side by side comparisons from the manga and the anime?

Having read the manga up to chapter 15, to me it looks like that simply it removed many (more or less funny) "gags" which required Goku to be quite dumb to work. The manga did not only remove gags, but simplified also other parts of the story (e.g. Beerus at Bulma's party before Boo ate all the pudding).
More "dumb goku" gags removed, than more "goku smart" moments...

[Lujin_16]

Yeah, Toyotaro's Goku seems smarter and more mature than Toei's Goku currently.
Also

If you like the Dragonball Goku and Ruffy of One Piece you will like Goku in Super only hardcore dbz fans will have their problems...

This isn't true at all. I've met regular, casual fans of DB who don't like Super's portrayal of the character.

Makes no sense to me becuase the dragonball Goku was more childish than the Goku of super

[Bansho64]

Makes no sense to me becuase the dragonball Goku was more childish than the Goku of super

Not really. To be honest, I find Goku a lot more mature in the middle and end points of Dragon Ball than I do in Super. His dumb moments in Dragon Ball didn't really bother me and some of his antics were more humorous because he was a kid and the jokes were better in my opinion. To me, his moments in Super are, for a lack of a better word, annoying as hell.

Now, I'm not saying Goku as an adult can't be humorous, because he has been. His dumb moments in Z ,and very rarely in GT, were ok and they didn't annoy me to the point of biting my tongue. Super has a tendency to do that for me and it's never funny.

[Gig]

About tranformations, both manga and anime, U6 tournament showed us that Goku and Vegeta can use what they wish (except for the red one, which is only used in the manga, after BoG).

About "power scaling" of every form in relationship with different arcs and different opponents, that's stuff for the apposite power level discussion thread. However I suggest to do not lose our rest following such things, because Power Levels in Super are a mess. I suppose too many different people worked on the scripts. We cannot find a strict logic where writers have very looose logic.
A few examples: does it have sense to talk about "god tier" at all when there are gods like North Kaio or U7 Kaioshin which are far behind SSJ2? Would it have been entertaining if base Goku would have obliterated all the U6 team in a single blow each? And who knows why u6 mortals can sense Ssb power level? Better to do not care too much...

[Gig]

His dumb moments in Dragon Ball didn't really bother me and some of his antics were more humorous because he was a kid and the jokes were better in my opinion.

This may be true... but on the other hand, maybe also we were children back then, if you get what I mean...

[Bansho64]

This may be true... but on the other hand, maybe also we were children back then, if you get what I mean...

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply If you're trying to say it's nostalgia, then you'd be wrong. I saw Kai first a couple of years ago when I was 10 on Nicktoons. I saw the original DB no more than 2 years ago when I was 13.

[ekrolo2]

One smarter moment for Goku is him asking for Beerus' help when he hears Black may potentially rival him in power after Trunks says Goku's SS3 power level was worthless fodder to Black.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

One smarter moment for Goku is him asking for Beerus' help when he hears Black may potentially rival him in power after Trunks says Goku's SS3 power level was worthless fodder to Black.

That doesn't really sound like Goku though. He should be excited at that proposition.
And that shouldn't scare him to the point he needs help from Beerus since he has SSG and SSGSS and potentially SbG.

[Gig]

This may be true... but on the other hand, maybe also we were children back then, if you get what I mean...

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply If you're trying to say it's nostalgia, then you'd be wrong. I saw Kai first a couple of years ago when I was 10 on Nicktoons. I saw the original DB no more than 2 years ago when I was 13.

I was referring to the case of those who have seen DB/DBZ (not Kai) when they were teenagers and now are "adults" (let's say 30)... it's not your case.
In that case, a gag that you like at 12 may not have the same effect at 25 or 35...

However maybe this may apply also to the difference between 10 and 15...

Ps: about Goku smart moments in manga, there is the thing about Hit hands on pockets... I cant't recall much more, up to chapter 15...

[ekrolo2]

One smarter moment for Goku is him asking for Beerus' help when he hears Black may potentially rival him in power after Trunks says Goku's SS3 power level was worthless fodder to Black.

That doesn't really sound like Goku though. He should be excited at that proposition.
And that shouldn't scare him to the point he needs help from Beerus since he has SSG and SSGSS and potentially SbG.

At this point in his existence, Goku doing anything that doesn't portray him as being barely competent enough to not shit his own pants is OOC.

Black's power is also much higher here than in the anime. Trunks' power which rivals Goku's at SS3 is something Black can easily take down, meaning Goku will need to use at least SSGod to fight him.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

One smarter moment for Goku is him asking for Beerus' help when he hears Black may potentially rival him in power after Trunks says Goku's SS3 power level was worthless fodder to Black.

That doesn't really sound like Goku though. He should be excited at that proposition.
And that shouldn't scare him to the point he needs help from Beerus since he has SSG and SSGSS and potentially SbG.

At this point in his existence, Goku doing anything that doesn't portray him as being barely competent enough to not shit his own pants is OOC.

Black's power is also much higher here than in the anime. Trunks' power which rivals Goku's at SS3 is something Black can easily take down, meaning Goku will need to use at least SSGod to fight him.

Sadly looks like Manga might be skipping that confrontation. Unless Toyo does that fight in the future aswell. Liks SSG vs Black as a warm up, SSG loses then Vegeta intervens goes SSGSS immediately and the rest plays similar to the anime.

[Nejishiki]

I'm oblivious as all hell, I'm not noticing the difference between Toei's Goku and Toyotaro. Maybe someone can give me examples of this or a list of side by side comparisons from the manga and the anime?

I'd argue if any difference exists, it's pedantically trivial. The heart of Son Goku's character survives in both sources. While I'm sure slight exaggeration is born from the writers, the stories of caricature are unfounded, I think. From my observation, pieces of the puzzle are picked apart on their own instead of as a whole. It's a matter of preference which traits are acceptable to be on display. To that, I would say, "You can't always like everything about somebody".

[ekrolo2]

Sadly looks like Manga might be skipping that confrontation. Unless Toyo does that fight in the future aswell. Liks SSG vs Black as a warm up, SSG loses then Vegeta intervens goes SSGSS immediately and the rest plays similar to the anime.

Actually, I think the fight will happen. If you notice, Black isn't wearing a ring when he fights Trunks:

[spoiler]





[/spoiler]
Black most likely leaves in the last chapter to go get it so he can follow Trunks through time. That's my best guess anyway.[/quote]

[THEGOKU]

One example that stands out to me is how he reacts to stronger fighters or hearing about stronger fighters (U6 Tournament) in Super by jumping up and down and acting childish. Before Super he would act more mature about it and even be scared about it but acknowledge his excitement over it. It is minor things here and there but they have made him very goofy just to have the added comedy when sometimes it really isn't needed. It's not a massive overhaul of the character though.

[PsionicWarrior]

If you like the Dragonball Goku and Ruffy of One Piece you will like Goku in Super only hardcore dbz fans will have their problems...

Lol, I don't think I'm a "hardcore dbz fan" and I am really annoyed with dbs's Goku, seriously give me only one comparison between db and dbs Goku, there isn't.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Post-Freeza Goku doesn't have much character anyway. Toei's DBS Goku is just a dumber version of that.

[PsionicWarrior]

Post-Freeza Goku doesn't have much character anyway. Toei's DBS Goku is just a dumber version of that.

DBS Goku is a different character. Original Goku is naive, too kind-hearted, but not stupid. I disagree with you saying there is no evolution, I believe he gained wisdom during the Cell and especially the Buu arc. In dbs Goku has been reduced to someone who's only good at fighting, and the rest is just a big embarrassment, "oh, Monaka has the same ki as Beerus, what a coincidence!" Come on give me a break mate lol

[ekrolo2]

Post-Freeza Goku doesn't have much character anyway. Toei's DBS Goku is just a dumber version of that.

DBS Goku is a different character. Original Goku is naive, too kind-hearted, but not stupid. I disagree with you saying there is no evolution, I believe he gained wisdom during the Cell and especially the Buu arc. In dbs Goku has been reduced to someone who's only good at fighting, and the rest is just a big embarrassment, "oh, Monaka has the same ki as Beerus, what a coincidence!" Come on give me a break mate lol

Whatever wisdom Goku gains in the Cell arc he effectively pisses on during the Boo Saga. The reason he chose to stay dead is because he thinks he makes things worse by being there, which is certainly true cause much of the Cell arc happens because of him being a jackass. Not that the others don't help but he's still to blame. So, the next logical choice for him should a threat arise is to not fuck around with it and end it when an opportunity presents itself.

If Goku REALLY learned anything from the Cell arc, he'd have used Super Saiyan 3, broken Vegeta instantly and ended things right then and there. Instead, he does the same thing that leads to much of the Cell arc escalating: he puts his fighting boner above all else. He even admits to being a shit head when he say "Yyyeeeahhh, I could have beaten Boo but I didn't want to cause the kids need to fight without me!"

So let me see if I understand this: the kids, the 7 and 8-year-olds, are being put in a position where they've got to fight the most dangerous being in the universe because he didn't learn jack shit from before and played around with Vegeta? This stuff right here is why I hate Goku's guts. He's a selfish prick who everyone loves even though he does stuff like that.