PsionicWarrior wrote:I don't know how I can say it better, it's not about the actions but the personality and mental process.
"It's not who I am underneath but what I do that defines me."
Someone can be the nicest person on the planet on the inside but if they act like a shithead, a shithead is what he will be regarded as by everyone else. Goku is a fairly likeable person but his actions and reasons for said actions are appallingly selfish and destructive for himself and everyone around him. He acts much like his various opponents to, doing things because that's what he's like except Freeza is an evil bastard for destroying the Earth while Goku isn't even though he's the one who gives Freeza a fucking opening to destroy it in the first place!
I will stop calling Goku a scum sucking bastard the day someone tells me why it's bad for Freeza to follow his base instincts which is be a murdering asshole but Goku is a good guy for basically doing the same thing and causing much needless pain, suffering and destruction for everyone around him in the process.
Goku doesn't directly destroy anything. It's unfair to call him scum and to compare him to Freeza. Not to say that Goku is good, not all, he's beyond selfish and calling him an asshole is fair, the difference is assholes don't clean their own shit; which Goku always does, one way or another (it helps having Dragon Ball).
It's like if Freeza was the guy who is actively is killing dolphins, while Goku is the guy who contributes to it by not choosing the brand that doesn't hurt them, either because of money or because that brand's tuna is just to damn good!
ParkerAL wrote:For the longest time, Toei had a habit of making Goku a tad more traditionally heroic and serious than Toriyama's Goku. I guess now they decided to fix that, after having Toriyama involved in newer material like Battle of Gods, but maybe swung a little too far in the other direction? That's just my feeling, I guess.
That's exactly what I've been thinking too. I wonder, was it a result of whatever Toriyama was complaining about?
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai "90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash
Xeztin wrote:Toei's more or less turned Goku into Luffy.
Pretty much this. Only, I feel that Luffy cares about his friends a lot more than Gokuu cares about his.
Yeah I actually despise Luffy, but his antics are tolerable in that how he always was. Yes I understand Toei wrote Goku more heroic than he was, but he was never written as a total idiot either.
Xeztin wrote:Toei's more or less turned Goku into Luffy.
Pretty much this. Only, I feel that Luffy cares about his friends a lot more than Gokuu cares about his.
Yeah I actually despise Luffy, but his antics are tolerable in that how he always was. Yes I understand Toei wrote Goku more heroic than he was, but he was never written as a total idiot either.
Except he has acted like a total idiot on several occasions in the manga.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote:Except he has acted like a total idiot on several occasions in the manga.
They weren't nearly as gut wrenching though. Toriyama Goku has displayed high levels of intelligence and, at times, used high vocabulary.
In fighting and training, yes. Outside of that, no.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Hate to be arriving a two month old thread, but I just finished reading the translated version of Chapter 17, and I like how Toyotaro's Goku rudely speaks to Beerus and even rudely speaks about the Grand Priest -- "Is this little runt over here the Grand Priest?" Lol, really reminds me of Toriyama's Goku.
ryou766 wrote:Hate to be arriving a two month old thread, but I just finished reading the translated version of Chapter 17, and I like how Toyotaro's Goku rudely speaks to Beerus and even rudely speaks about the Grand Priest -- "Is this little runt over here the Grand Priest?" Lol, really reminds me of Toriyama's Goku.
The scanslations are very liberal with that kind of thing, so don't take that as law. It's likely that Goku wasn't nearly as rude as they made him seem.
It's still "spiced" up a bit more than need be, but pretty much on track. This is about as literal as you can get without being disjointed for all his "rude" lines.
Son Goku: "What~?"
~~~~~~ Son Goku: "I ain't going if I have to do somethin' so annoyin'."
~~~~~~ Son Goku: "What noooow?"
~~~~~~ Son Goku: "That kid-like person is the Dai Shinkan/Grand Priest-sama?"
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)
