Theories On the Origin of Black

[HeroR]

I think that Goku Black is the present zamasu, and future zamasu is just a zamasu.

Then why does Future Zamasu hates Goku so much to the point of wanting to kill him personally? Shouldn't it be present Zamasu who wants Goku's head on a platter since he's still bitter about losing a sparring match and Goku has the nerve to have god ki.

[Cipher]

Manga Chapter 16 droppin' mad hints that Black is from the main timeline (in which case, present Zamasu).

[Khin]

It can't be him. Present Zamasu wasn't even immortal yet at that time.

We still don't know that, the way Zamasu acted around Beerus and co. in the NeP and at the end of the latest episode made it looked like he have some plan up his sleeve. Plus, he could just easily wish for immortality in the future, or perhaps unlike we all thought, his immortality didn't came from the Super Dragon Balls.

[Kishido]

I give up... I have no clue who Black is seing the next weeks preview

[Anime Kitten]

I give up... I have no clue who Black is seing the next weeks preview

I think the Black = Gowasu theory is defeated by now, so I'm with you here.

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

I give up... I have no clue who Black is seing the next weeks preview

I think the Black = Gowasu theory is defeated by now, so I'm with you here.

I think that Zamasu's "death" may end up creating Goku Black somehow. Not sure, but I am lost. The only thing I can think of is that Zamasu = Goku Black. How? Why? We don't know. But that's my theory. =/

[Anime Kitten]

I think that Zamasu's "death" may end up creating Goku Black somehow. Not sure, but I am lost. The only thing I can think of is that Zamasu = Goku Black. How? Why? We don't know. But that's my theory. =/

Good point, his death has to be relevant somehow.

[ekrolo2]

I doubt a Zamasu who just got killed by Beerus would be averse to getting an immortal body if he was Black.

[kidhero1000]

G.I.N.Y.U
G.I.N.Y.U
G.I.N.Y.U

[sailorspazz]

Present Zamasu's destruction does throw a wrench in some previous theories, assuming Beerus was successful in completely annihilating him. But what if the destruction failed somehow? Some theories on that...

We saw his body get destroyed, but do we know if the soul was destroyed too? We know when the Elder Kaioushin died, he just popped right back up with a halo on his head. Of course, Beerus could've used some extra special god-killing technique that makes sure Zamasu won't even show up in the afterlife and be truly wiped from existence. If not, it'd be kind of a huge mistake on their end if he just ends up running around in the afterlife still finding ways to make his plan work (like seriously, Beerus, you had one job! ) But that seems like something way too big for them to overlook, and thus they probably already accounted for it...

Something else that came to me is based on what Zamasu was doing after the scene where he went to see Zunou. Obviously he can travel between universes since he went to Universe 7, so I wonder if he was able to get around the problem of not having the Potara earrings he needed by obtaining them somewhere else? He could've picked some random universe, snuck up on a Kaioushin, and swiped their earrings (maybe knocking them out, probably not killing if he didn't want to draw too much attention), allowing him to use the Time Rings as he pleased (but replacing them with his apprentice earrings when he came back to see Gowasu, as to not arouse suspicion). So in that case, he was already immortal and Beerus' destruction failed. But then the question would be, why does he need to come back and kill Gowasu in order to carry out his plan if he already found other means?

...I think I already invalidated my theories with my own doubts I'm just trying very hard to figure out what's happening, because I still feel present Zamasu has to be involved somehow for this all to work! He can't be dead, he just can't be! (aaaand now I sound like a fan-girl desperately trying to convince myself that a character I like is still alive...which may be the true reason for all the theorizing )

[dbgtFO]

Beerus only wiped out main timeline Zamasu, which shouldn't have any effect on parallel words.
I know what Beerus said, but he's full of shit or has yet to realize DB time travel with Trunks' time machine does not work under the singular timeline with grandfather paradoxes that the time rings seem to operate under(has the anime touched on paralell worlds like the manga?)

At least Trunks questioned Beerus' logic and maybe this is just the writers trying to surprise their audience by first revealing in the next episode, that Trunks' time travels create paralell worlds unlike Kaioshin time rings.

So we are back at Black being something that took over Future Goku's body and the Zamasu of that timeline somehow hating Goku.
Surely their next travel back to the future is also their final.. seems a bit silly, if they have to run away yet again!

[immakillya]

I believe black and zamasu in the future timeline are from a different timeline completely. In Z, we know of atleast 4 timelines. The main timeline, the future timeline black and zamasu are in, timeline where trunks is killed by cell, and the timeline trunks was heading back to, to report his success before he was killed. That 4th timeline would have a living Goku for Zamasu to get pissed at

[Cipher]

I was on board with the theory that Zamasu would manage to possess Goku following his "destruction" at Beerus' hands, but obviously the way episode 59 played out has thrown that out the window.

That said, upcoming episode titles seem to hint Goku is taken out of the picture one way or another, and the preview for episode 60 has Goku surprised that Black is not a "fake." I would not be surprised it if ends up being a possessed version of our Goku yet. Though the mechanics of how all this plays out in terms of time travel or a possible causal loop have become a lot more baffling to me.

[vilker]

I thought another theory:

When Goku and Zamasu clash atacks in the present, Zamasu could infect Goku with some of him.

Then when Zamasu is dead, Goku starts to sense the Zamasu presence in his body and will go to collect super dragon balls and wish for Zamasu resurrection. Then inmortality for Zamasu. Then most powerful body for Goku. Then Zamasu and Goku will go to the Trunks timeline because there is no Hakaishins.

So Black is actually Goku.

[Nejishiki]

You certainly tied it up in nice bow. I commend you for that. It's self-consistent. The only problem I have with the theory is its lack of hints and character opportinuty. Why would Zamasu feel the need to do something like that in their first meeting? His planning would have to be instantaneous to pull that off. The motivation would be born out of thin air. Consider that he doesn't know who he's dealing with. He expected to end the match quickly and move on. His thoughts of enforcing justice grew a bit after the sparring session. His other opportunity to hypothetically infect him was cut short by Beerus himself. He didn't get to touch him. Again, that's a nice idea, but I don't think the story as it's currently presented allows for that scenario. At least, I don't believe it was setup as such with what we have anyway.

[HeroR]

Beerus only wiped out main timeline Zamasu, which shouldn't have any effect on parallel words.
I know what Beerus said, but he's full of shit or has yet to realize DB time travel with Trunks' time machine does not work under the singular timeline with grandfather paradoxes that the time rings seem to operate under(has the anime touched on paralell worlds like the manga?)

At least Trunks questioned Beerus' logic and maybe this is just the writers trying to surprise their audience by first revealing in the next episode, that Trunks' time travels create paralell worlds unlike Kaioshin time rings.

So we are back at Black being something that took over Future Goku's body and the Zamasu of that timeline somehow hating Goku.
Surely their next travel back to the future is also their final.. seems a bit silly, if they have to run away yet again!

I find it funny that people are so quick to say Beerus is just full of crap and doesn't know what he's talking about, yet Whis never bothers to correct Beerus. If he was so full of crap, why isn't Whis pointed this out since he know how time travel works. And the anime did touch on multiple timelines when Gawaus talked about the multiple green Time Rings.

[vilker]

You certainly tied it up in nice bow. I commend you for that. It's self-consistent. The only problem I have with the theory is its lack of hints and character opportinuty. Why would Zamasu feel the need to do something like that in their first meeting? His planning would have to be instantaneous to pull that off. The motivation would be born out of thin air. Consider that he doesn't know who he's dealing with. He expected to end the match quickly and move on. His thoughts of enforcing justice grew a bit after the sparring session. His other opportunity to hypothetically infect him was cut short by Beerus himself. He didn't get to touch him. Again, that's a nice idea, but I don't think the story as it's currently presented allows for that scenario. At least, I don't believe it was setup as such with what we have anyway.

Yeh it's stretch but when zamasu meets Goku, He distrusts because was a human in sacred ground and God of Destruction friend, the fact of wanting to fight against a god was an insult for him.
Anyway it's possible Zamasu did it from the distance, the reason why asks Zuno about all Goku information. Maybe knowing the location of Goku and/or any weak point, Zamasu could infect Goku with some of his soul.


If this theory is wrong, the only possibility I see is another timeline when Trunks never arrived and Zamasu became immortal without opposition.

[Sodhi]

The theory that I have right now is that black is just a zamasu from a different timeline. Difference is that he got himself gokus body and ki.

[ChronoTwigger]

MY FINAL THEORY
(and then I stop to think about and play bet on this one).

Black is Goten.

WAIT A MOMENT!
The body of Black is Goten one.
And not an alternate timeline Goten, but this very one we know.

There's no need for Goten to belong to Future Trunks timeline, to be here.

Think of it and DREAAAAM...

Since the beginning I tought the potara was a soul container for an evil thing.
Now I'm almost certain that something is inside the potara, and grant to Black the same KI as Zamasu.

In "normal timeline" future, a grown Goten come into contact with these infected potara, and get controlled.
(So all the behaviours of Goten belong in fact to that entity, like hating Sayan people)

This explain why Zamasu in the future: revived by Black/Goten. So, is not Zamasu that created Black, but Black that revived Zamasu by Super Dragon Balls.

Having the soul of a kaio, they could use the time rings. Of course they go to an alternate future (one of the Gowasu ring)...
TO AVOID BEERUS AGAIN!

So, in fact, BOTH ZAMASU and BLACK bring half of the same evil spirit.
The spirit will probably manifest himself later, when the potara get united again.

And that evil spirit is GOWASU HIMSELF!
Yes. Gowasu have somehow hinted at Zamasu how to use rings, "casually" showing him Babarians, "casually" hinting on him about Dragon Balls, "casually" shown how the hated mortal Goku used god ki, and thus when the beloved apprentice die, move no finger, not any kind of question...
That's a really good plan to deceive everyone.
"There was a stupid one that used the fourth ring"... and this was Gowasu himself! For some reason traveled to future and see his own bad fate (Universe 10 erased by Zeno? His own eradication?).

There are a number of things that hint in this very direction.
That's my final theory.
Please destroy it.

[ryou766]

If Black is in fact using Future Goku's body, I wonder if the heart virus will come into play involving his defeat.