Theories On the Origin of Black

[Chuquita]

If Black is in fact using Future Goku's body, I wonder if the heart virus will come into play involving his defeat.

It could be what allows them to beat him. I think it'd leave Gokû with a bad taste in his mouth though, since winning because Gokû Black is dying from the virus would be unfair to Gokû.

I think Future Trunks will land the final attack.

[ryou766]

It could be what allows them to beat him. I think it'd leave Gokû with a bad taste in his mouth though, since winning because Gokû Black is dying from the virus would be unfair to Gokû.

I think Future Trunks will land the final attack.

Goku would have a problem with it, but Future Trunks wouldn't for sure. He would take any advantage he can get; as long as he defeats Black in the end.

Goku would more than likely be focused on Zamasu, while Trunks and Vegeta handle Black.

[Khin]

Here's one I've been thinking lately. The Unseen Timeline should have everyone alive since it was heavily implied that they managed to stop the Androids, it is highly likely that the evens of that timeline went similar to the present timeline. With all that, it's possible that and Zamasu originally came from that timeline, either Zamasu become interested in Goku when Gowasu watched the battle between Hit and Goku on GodTube or like in the manga where Kaioshin told him about Goku. Either way, that would cause Zamasu to create a plan like in the present timeline. Since Future Trunks didn't come back in that timeline, Goku and co wouldn't know about Zamasu's plan and Beerus will not kill Zamasu in that timeline, that leaves to Zamasu successfully killing Gowasu, stealing the Time-Ring and asserting his plan.

Basically, Future Trunks returning and telling everyone about Black caused them to stop the present timeline Zamasu's plan, but the unseen timeline have no Trunks returning and telling them about Black, so that timelines' Zamasu achieved his plan.

As for Black's true identity and how he got Goku's body, it's still the same theory i have about him. The preview of the next episode made it seem like Black's Time-Ring played a role in their plan.

[Anime Kitten]

[spoiler]Here's one I've been thinking lately. The Unseen Timeline should have everyone alive since it was heavily implied that they managed to stop the Androids, it is highly likely that the evens of that timeline went similar to the present timeline. With all that, it's possible that and Zamasu originally came from that timeline, either Zamasu become interested in Goku when Gowasu watched the battle between Hit and Goku on GodTube or like in the manga where Kaioshin told him about Goku. Either way, that would cause Zamasu to create a plan like in the present timeline. Since Future Trunks didn't come back in that timeline, Goku and co wouldn't know about Zamasu's plan and Beerus will not kill Zamasu in that timeline, that leaves to Zamasu successfully killing Gowasu, stealing the Time-Ring and asserting his plan.

Basically, Future Trunks returning and telling everyone about Black caused them to stop the present timeline Zamasu's plan, but the unseen timeline have no Trunks returning and telling them about Black, so that timelines' Zamasu achieved his plan.[/spoiler]

This is very logical, but the only problem is, I'm not sure anyone (Mr. Toriyama, Toei, etc) cares about the 4th timeline.

[Khin]

This is very logical, but the only problem is, I'm not sure anyone (Mr. Toriyama, Toei, etc) cares about the 4th timeline.

Why not ? It's the timeline that is the most identical to the present timeline, many fans are very interested about that timeline, and of the Toei people who gave Toriyama some suggestions in this arc might be one of them.

Alternatively. The mysterious new 5th Timeline might also where Zamasu and Black came from.

[HeroR]

If Black is in fact using Future Goku's body, I wonder if the heart virus will come into play involving his defeat.

It could be what allows them to beat him. I think it'd leave Gokû with a bad taste in his mouth though, since winning because Gokû Black is dying from the virus would be unfair to Gokû.

I think Future Trunks will land the final attack.

But Black has never shown a problem with his heart. The only time he grabbed his chest was after Goku kicked him there twice.

[marcbret87]

This is very logical, but the only problem is, I'm not sure anyone (Mr. Toriyama, Toei, etc) cares about the 4th timeline.

Why not ? It's the timeline that is the most identical to the present timeline, many fans are very interested about that timeline, and of the Toei people who gave Toriyama some suggestions in this arc might be one of them.

Alternatively. The mysterious new 5th Timeline might also where Zamasu and Black came from.

The 4th timeline, as far as I know, is only mentioned by fans trying to explain the mess that was caused with Cell going to the past. I don't remember this timeline being mentioned in the manga or in the anime, so I think it would be pretty surprising that all of a sudden they refer to it to explain the Goku Black situation.

[Nejishiki]

Fans didn't create four timelines. It's one split never explored from altering a past when Future Trunks had still been ignorant of that feature. Dragon World's narrative explores only two timelines with importance. The aforementioned and an era where the original Future Trunks perished are only used to keep Dragon Ball's time travel mechanics consistent, allowing its infrequent reference. It's recorded in Daizenshuu 7. As it stands currently, there's no significant reason to account for those timelines. If anything, the recent split learned from Gowasu may be some subtle clue.

[Khin]

The 4th timeline, as far as I know, is only mentioned by fans trying to explain the mess that was caused with Cell going to the past. I don't remember this timeline being mentioned in the manga or in the anime, so I think it would be pretty surprising that all of a sudden they refer to it to explain the Goku Black situation.

Daizenshuu 7 states that the Trunks of Cell's timeline found the Androids' blueprints in the “Unseen Timeline”, returned to his timeline and defeated the Androids, thus making Cell wonder why the Androids no longer exist in his timeline, he then kills Trunks and uses the Time Machine and ends up in the present timeline. It wasn't made up by fans, it was in the guidebooks.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Episode 54 further reinforced this by having 3 alternate timeline and another one being created by “some idiot” few years ago. Which makes it 5 timelines in total, with a new one being completely new.

[marcbret87]

The 4th timeline, as far as I know, is only mentioned by fans trying to explain the mess that was caused with Cell going to the past. I don't remember this timeline being mentioned in the manga or in the anime, so I think it would be pretty surprising that all of a sudden they refer to it to explain the Goku Black situation.

Daizenshuu 7 states that the Trunks of Cell's timeline found the Androids' blueprints in the “Unseen Timeline”, returned to his timeline and defeated the Androids, thus making Cell wonder why the Androids no longer exist in his timeline, he then kills Trunks and uses the Time Machine and ends up in the present timeline. It wasn't made up by fans, it was in the guidebooks.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Episode 54 further reinforced this by having 3 alternate timeline and another one being created by “some idiot” few years ago. Which makes it 5 timelines in total, with a new one being completely new.

But in this timeline the Cell Games happen anyway, only that Trunks is not there. In the fan theories, the timeline 4 is one where Goku survives the heart illness, the androids are destroyed with the use of a device, and Cell's existence is unknown.

[Khin]

But in this timeline the Cell Games happen anyway, only that Trunks is not there. In the fan theories, the timeline 4 is one where Goku survives the heart illness, the androids are destroyed with the use of a device, and Cell's existence is unknown.

Why does the theories of some people matter ? What's important is the timeline established by the Daizenshuu. The 4th timeline is the timeline that the original Future Trunks went to, we don't know much about the timeline since we never saw it, but it's likely that the events in that timeline went similar to the present one.

[HeroR]

But in this timeline the Cell Games happen anyway, only that Trunks is not there. In the fan theories, the timeline 4 is one where Goku survives the heart illness, the androids are destroyed with the use of a device, and Cell's existence is unknown.

Why does the theories of some people matter ? What's important is the timeline established by the Daizenshuu. The 4th timeline is the timeline that the original Future Trunks went to, we don't know much about the timeline since we never saw it, but it's likely that the events in that timeline went similar to the present one.

It would be different since Cell never went to that timeline (although he will eventually appear years later since he wasn't killed in the lab), therefore everyone in theory would be weaker since there was no need to discover Super Saiyan 2. Goku would be alive and most likely wouldn't know Super Saiyan 3 and he wouldn't know the Fusion Dance. Making the Buu Saga vastly different since Dabura alone would manhandle everyone.

[Barunks]

I'm making the declaration that Black is just an undead version of the Goku that died in Trunk's timeline resurrected by Zamasu to be his servant. How the hell Zamasu can even pull off bringing back the dead will be revealed soon.

[marcbret87]

I'm making the declaration that Black is just an undead version of the Goku that died in Trunk's timeline resurrected by Zamasu to be his servant. How the hell Zamasu can even pull off bringing back the dead will be revealed soon.

The way it is portrayed now, the relationship Black-Zamasu does not really seem one of master-slave, but more one of two guys working together. So yeah, I would put my money on Black using the dead body of that Goku,

Regarding timelines, whatever is stated in Daizenshuu, I sincerely doubt they would rely on a plot point only mentioned there to sort out all those issues. In any case, what Beerus said is that killing Zamasu should kill him in every timeline, so either he is talking rubbish or something else is at play.

[Khin]

It would be different since Cell never went to that timeline (although he will eventually appear years later since he wasn't killed in the lab), therefore everyone in theory would be weaker since there was no need to discover Super Saiyan 2. Goku would be alive and most likely wouldn't know Super Saiyan 3 and he wouldn't know the Fusion Dance. Making the Buu Saga vastly different since Dabura alone would manhandle everyone.

See the image above you, the Cell Games happened there for some reason with the only difference is Trunks being absent. Meaning Cell indeed appeared in that timeline, whoever that Cell is or where is he from is completely unknown. Trunks didn't play much role in the Cell Games, so it can be assumed that Gohan still killed Cell there and the events went likely similar to the main timeline.

Regarding timelines, whatever is stated in Daizenshuu, I sincerely doubt they would rely on a plot point only mentioned there to sort out all those issues. In any case, what Beerus said is that killing Zamasu should kill him in every timeline, so either he is talking rubbish or something else is at play.

Beerus was immediately proven wrong as soon as we saw Zamasu in the preview. Either Beerus is just flat out wrong or Zamasu didn't die because of his immortality.

[Cipher]

Fans didn't create four timelines. It's one split never explored from altering a past when Future Trunks had still been ignorant of that feature. Dragon World's narrative explores only two timelines with importance. The aforementioned and an era where the original Future Trunks perished are only used to keep Dragon Ball's time travel mechanics consistent, allowing its infrequent reference. It's recorded in Daizenshuu 7. As it stands currently, there's no significant reason to account for those timelines. If anything, the recent split learned from Gowasu may be some subtle clue.

I thought everyone was more or less on board with the idea that line was intended to refer to Trunks and Cell's shenanigans, which are pretty recent in the grand scheme of things.

[Nejishiki]

I'm mostly playing with minor details, if only because I'm assuming Gowasu's silver Time Ring is original and his four green Time Rings are splits. It'll become easier to organize once everything concludes. Main point to drive is that I personally doubt those expository timelines will ever find relevance again. If a split develops vitality for the narrative, I wager a new parallel world does the trick. Attribute it as keeping available options open until new information permanently closes alternative theories.

[SaiyanSoul]

Regarding timelines, whatever is stated in Daizenshuu, I sincerely doubt they would rely on a plot point only mentioned there to sort out all those issues. In any case, what Beerus said is that killing Zamasu should kill him in every timeline, so either he is talking rubbish or something else is at play.

Beerus was immediately proven wrong as soon as we saw Zamasu in the preview. Either Beerus is just flat out wrong or Zamasu didn't die because of his immortality.

Yeah but what if because future Zamasu is immortal due to the power of super dragon balls that even though Beerus killed him in the present future Zamasu wouldn't have been killed because his power came from the Super Dragon while all the other Zamasu's are currently dead. Plus for anyone who says well shouldn't Beerus be dead in the present since he died in Future Trunk's time line lets remember that Beerus said that only happens when a God kills a God. Kaioshin was killed during the Dabura fight and not by another god so that is why he might still be alive in another time line according to Beerus' logic.

[SaiyanSoul]

Regarding timelines, whatever is stated in Daizenshuu, I sincerely doubt they would rely on a plot point only mentioned there to sort out all those issues. In any case, what Beerus said is that killing Zamasu should kill him in every timeline, so either he is talking rubbish or something else is at play.

Beerus was immediately proven wrong as soon as we saw Zamasu in the preview. Either Beerus is just flat out wrong or Zamasu didn't die because of his immortality.

Yeah but what if because future Zamasu is immortal due to the power of super dragon balls that even though Beerus killed him in the present future Zamasu wouldn't have been killed because his power came from the Super Dragon while all the other Zamasu's are currently dead. Plus for anyone who says well shouldn't Beerus be dead in the present since he died in Future Trunk's time line lets remember that Beerus said that only happens when a God kills a God. Kaioshin was killed during the Dabura fight and not by another god so that is why he might still be alive in another time line according to Beerus' logic.

[HeroR]

It would be different since Cell never went to that timeline (although he will eventually appear years later since he wasn't killed in the lab), therefore everyone in theory would be weaker since there was no need to discover Super Saiyan 2. Goku would be alive and most likely wouldn't know Super Saiyan 3 and he wouldn't know the Fusion Dance. Making the Buu Saga vastly different since Dabura alone would manhandle everyone.

See the image above you, the Cell Games happened there for some reason with the only difference is Trunks being absent. Meaning Cell indeed appeared in that timeline, whoever that Cell is or where is he from is completely unknown. Trunks didn't play much role in the Cell Games, so it can be assumed that Gohan still killed Cell there and the events went likely similar to the main timeline.

Regarding timelines, whatever is stated in Daizenshuu, I sincerely doubt they would rely on a plot point only mentioned there to sort out all those issues. In any case, what Beerus said is that killing Zamasu should kill him in every timeline, so either he is talking rubbish or something else is at play.

Beerus was immediately proven wrong as soon as we saw Zamasu in the preview. Either Beerus is just flat out wrong or Zamasu didn't die because of his immortality.

The androids in the unseen timeline were killed/defeated by using the remote to turn them off. Cell would have never been completed to have the Cell Games.