Would Super Saiyan 4 have been impressive to Beerus, Golden Frieza, Hit, Goku Black, and Zamasu?

[Lord Frieza]

On no not this again.

Well I wont get into who can beat who but the god forms do seem superior in terms of power boost even without knowing the exact figures.

SS4 has been estimated to be around a 10x power boost from SS3. As for SSG, well Goku was confident to try and fight Beerus, an enemy he felt even fusion would not be effective against. That alone implies that basic SSG is in a much higher power boost category then SS4. Blue as far as we know is stronger then SSG so thats self explanatory as is the potential power boost of Frieza's golden from.

Really I'm in the camp that says they are both different futures for the original DB until proven otherwise. It's really not that unheard of, Go Nagai's Devilman series has two sequels, Devilman Lady and Violence Jack, which have nothing to do with each other in any way. They are effectively just divergent futures from the ending of Devilman.

[THEGOKU]

On no not this again.

Well I wont get into who can beat who but the god forms do seem superior in terms of power boost even without knowing the exact figures.

SS4 has been estimated to be around a 10x power boost from SS3. As for SSG, well Goku was confident to try and fight Beerus, an enemy he felt even fusion would not be effective against. That alone implies that basic SSG is in a much higher power boost category then SS4. Blue as far as we know is stronger then SSG so thats self explanatory as is the potential power boost of Frieza's golden from.

Really I'm in the camp that says they are both different futures for the original DB until proven otherwise. It's really not that unheard of, Go Nagai's Devilman series has two sequels, Devilman Lady and Violence Jack, which have nothing to do with each other in any way. They are effectively just divergent futures from the ending of Devilman.

That is how I view GT too especially with all this timeline stuff going on and different universe stuff it just makes it easier to make sense of it all. I just feel that SSJ4 has to be more powerful than just a 10x boost from SSJ3 especially considering the process one has to go through to transform into that form. I don't want to get into it because there are no real figures to it. It would just be nice if Toriyama could just come out and say it so that the debates to it can end.

[Draconic]

On no not this again.

Well I wont get into who can beat who but the god forms do seem superior in terms of power boost even without knowing the exact figures.

SS4 has been estimated to be around a 10x power boost from SS3. As for SSG, well Goku was confident to try and fight Beerus, an enemy he felt even fusion would not be effective against. That alone implies that basic SSG is in a much higher power boost category then SS4. Blue as far as we know is stronger then SSG so thats self explanatory as is the potential power boost of Frieza's golden from.

Really I'm in the camp that says they are both different futures for the original DB until proven otherwise. It's really not that unheard of, Go Nagai's Devilman series has two sequels, Devilman Lady and Violence Jack, which have nothing to do with each other in any way. They are effectively just divergent futures from the ending of Devilman.

That is how I view GT too especially with all this timeline stuff going on and different universe stuff it just makes it easier to make sense of it all. I just feel that SSJ4 has to be more powerful than just a 10x boost from SSJ3 especially considering the process one has to go through to transform into that form. I don't want to get into it because there are no real figures to it. It would just be nice if Toriyama could just come out and say it so that the debates to it can end.

There's no reason to believe it shouldn't just be a stronger more effective form, but not by much, since the ways of achieving 3 and 4 are entirely different. 3 is unlocked by training and is pushing the user to it's limit, while 4 has no connection to 2 and 3, but just Super Saiyan and Oozaru, which are much easier forms that any Saiyan could achieve, without training (they're born with the tail and grow stronger trough zenkais). 4 might just be a more correct version of achieving that realm of power, coming without the hardships and drawbacks of 3. As such, I feel the 1.25 difference is the best way to go (since I believe 4 is the Oozaru multiplier times the SSJ multiplier, therefore 500x base, which is 1.25x stronger than 400x base).

[Lord Beerus]

No. At this stage, the SSJ4 form is not that impressive power-wise when compared to what SSJG and SSJB can do.

[Cipher]

Yes. They would say, "Wow! That is very impressive." And then fight Goku in a manner completely dependent on scriptwriter, storyboard artist, animator and director that does not indicate one way or the other whether Super Saiyan 4 is stronger than god forms.

[SaiyanZ]

I personally like to keep it simple - GT takes place further in the timeline, so if you were to try and combine it and Super's storylines, then SS4 and likewise the foes it gets used against are likely all stronger than Super Saiyan God or even Super Saiyan Blue. Now whether they'd be enough to impress and/or beat Beerus or Whis or the few characters already stronger than Goku/Vegeta in Super though, that's questionable regardless.

I agree with this. I don't even know how one could compare GT to Super anyway in terms of strength, minus that SSj4 = SSj vegetto statement from some guidebook.

[Perfectionist-Cell]

I'm just going to say this before i start. GT and Super can not be compared because if these things...

Bias
Lack of Feats
and BS power ups like Trunks ssj2>Ssj3 Goku.
Two different time periods.(Although i would enjoy a crossover between GT and Super)

1. Ssj4 Goku=Ssj Vegito. First it said "Perhaps" so everyone saying they are legit equals need to stop. This is ridiculous because Base Goku>Majin Buu.
Vegetto went Ssj for Buu while Goku base is above Buu. That already shows inconsistency. Also according to ScrewAttack Ssj4 is x10 Ssj3. That makes Ssj4 4000x Majin Buu. Since Gt Goku base is >\= Majin Buu. Super Vegetto is not 4000x Majin Buu.

2. What proof is there that Ssj4 can not compare to SsG? Dont even bring up the Universal nonsense thing because that feat itself isnt legit.

[Saiyan007]

I'm just going to say this before i start. GT and Super can not be compared because if these things...

Lack of Feats

2. What proof is there that Ssj4 can not compare to SsG? Dont even bring up the Universal nonsense thing because that feat itself isnt legit.

Again blame GT for the lack if feats/statements the burden of proof is on you to show that GT characters can do what Super characters are casually capable of doing.(They don't even come close)

People don't knock down the verse that demonstrates feats it just makes it easier to understand who is stronger and in this case it's the Gods by a landslide.

BTW the universal feats are legit since everyone confirmed it even the narrator did had a episode dedicated to it and the feats all support it.

GT and Super can be compared it's just that Super laughably out ranks it based on feats and statements

[Cetra]

And since you are the one claiming Super's feats are enough to prove it the burden of proof is on you to prove that it actually is enough, not to forg'et that it is jst copared to your other claim of "the GT charas can't".

Basically all of your comments about this topics are also claims without actual proof. That people do not come up with a counter argument does not magically prove you right. That is not how it works and incomplete scientific thinking of "no one proves me wrong so I am right", which actually i not scientific at all. You can't just say 'I can lift more than you because how much you can lift is undefined and that means I can lift more'"

Not that Dragon Ball has anything to do with science.

[Saiyan007]

And since you are the one claiming Super's feats are enough to prove it the burden of proof is on you to prove that it actually is enough, not to forg'et that it is jst copared to your other claim of "the GT charas can't".

The burden of proof is on me to prove multiple universal level characters mop the floor with characters who via feats/statements don't even come close to that level??

Do I also need provide evidence that a newborn infant will never lift more than a body builder?

Or is your argument that since a newborn child never lifted anything we can't say if he can lift more than a body builder??

Absence of evidence isn't proof.

Basically all of your comments about this topics are also claims without actual proof.

The proof is the multiple statements and feats demonstrated throughout Super.....

That people do not come up with a counter argument does not magically prove you right. That is not how it works and incomplete scientific thinking of "no one proves me wrong so I am right", which actually i not scientific at all.

Then the burden of proof is on you to show that GT characters are that strong I don't need to do that since I've already shown multiple evidence that Super is on another level entirely and I'm not the one who's defending GT.

[ryan s]

Omega`s full power could only destroy the universe over a long period of time, i doubt anyone in Gt could impress anyone in Super

[Bullza]

Wasn't Super Vegito supposed to be stronger than Super Saiyan 4 whereas Super Saiyan God aka their current Base forms are supposed to be stronger than a hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Vegito?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Wasn't Super Vegito supposed to be stronger than Super Saiyan 4 whereas Super Saiyan God aka their current Base forms are supposed to be stronger than a hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Vegito?

The Perfect files said that SS4 Goku was about the same as Vegetto (or something like that). Nothing else you mentioned has ever been said, you must have read from an unreliable source.

[Bullza]

Wasn't Super Vegito supposed to be stronger than Super Saiyan 4 whereas Super Saiyan God aka their current Base forms are supposed to be stronger than a hypothetical Super Saiyan 3 Vegito?

The Perfect files said that SS4 Goku was about the same as Vegetto (or something like that). Nothing else you mentioned has ever been said, you must have read from an unreliable source.

The rest should be true aswell, Super Saiyan God would appear to be superior to the fusion between Goku and Vegeta and Super 3 Vegito is one possible result of their fusion.

SSJG > SSJ3 Vegito >SSJ2 Vegito > SSJ Vegito ~ SSJ4

[Perfectionist-Cell]

And since you are the one claiming Super's feats are enough to prove it the burden of proof is on you to prove that it actually is enough, not to forg'et that it is jst copared to your other claim of "the GT charas can't".

Basically all of your comments about this topics are also claims without actual proof. That people do not come up with a counter argument does not magically prove you right. That is not how it works and incomplete scientific thinking of "no one proves me wrong so I am right", which actually i not scientific at all. You can't just say 'I can lift more than you because how much you can lift is undefined and that means I can lift more'"

Not that Dragon Ball has anything to do with science.

This is exactly what am i trying to say. Just because GT has no feats does that make them weak compared to Super? No! That's not how things work.

[Saiyan007]

This is exactly what am i trying to say. Just because GT has no feats does that make them weak compared to Super? No! That's not how things work.

Except that's exactly how it works absence of evidence is not proof.

You can't say "Goku can move so fast he can travel back in time like the Flash".

You would need proof via feats or statements to back up your claim.You cannot claim someone can do something if they've never shown it or can't provide the evidence via feats or statements.

That's just an empty claim with absolutely no backing to it.

Claiming Goku can lift up a multiversal but since he's never done so before you can't say he can't lift one up if he tried is an extremely fallacious argument.

Goku has never demonstrated the lifting strength required to lift something of that magnitude before so why would I claim he can do it if none of his feats or staments back it up?

You need proof to back up empty statements or otherwise I could be claiming Goku is omnipotent

[Cetra]

Except that's exactly how it works absence of evidence is not proof.

You have just countered out all of your own posts with this line because all of your comments worked like people not saying anything about GT proved you were right. Which you aren't. So you should finally stop bringing in final conclusions because this absence of evidence that you even acknowledge makes it impossible for you to say that Super is stronger, not only that GT is stronger or not stronger. If there is nothing to compare there is nothing to decide. GT never mentioned any possible maximum. Claiming different is baseless. And I have not even started mentioning the inconsistencies of power in the entire Dragon Ball series.

[Saiyan007]

Except that's exactly how it works absence of evidence is not proof.

You have just countered out all of your own posts with this line because all of your comments worked like people not saying anything about GT proved you were right. Which you aren't. So you should finally stop bringing in final conclusions because this absence of evidence that you even acknowledge makes it impossible for you to say that Super is stronger, not only that GT is stronger or not stronger. If there is nothing to compare there is nothing to decide. GT never mentioned any possible maximum. Claiming different is baseless. And I have not even started mentioning the inconsistencies of power in the entire Dragon Ball series.

All I'm seeing is no proof why GT characters stand a chance against Super characters

There's plenty to compare between GT and Super it's just that Super is just far more impressive

[brett wheeler]

well it depends they are very different continuum with the same way of explaining power scaling ( none ).On one hand you have gt witch was just a gag when it comes to feats they are very inconsistent with what z even showed, now when it comes to super there feats are way better but they still dont explain even how strong there base forms are something gt even did so we have to make our own conclusions, with this in mind I came to the conclusion base super goku is ssj vegito tier based on feats and fights they have had. We know the gods are way way way stronger than what we where led to believe so ssj1-3 probably isnt on that god scale while ssg snd ssb are ( nobody has been able to refute this that i've talked as it makes the feats they have possible without them being ssg lvl ). Now on to comparing them so lets start with base, base goku from super has a big advantage but will probably take it easy so he can enjoy the fight, gt goku will need ssj1-2 to be on par with or stronger than base goku alone ssj3 gt goku would curb stomp base super goku but ssj super goku would be 50^ what he was making him atleast 10-20* ssj3 gt goku so already ssj super goku is on equal footing with ssj4 gt goku. Now for the forms them selves ssj3 goku was severely under 1% beerus a gap that even 10* what he had wouldnt have closed while ssg is atleast where beerus said rageta lvl was ( witch was a lie and still he is most likely stronger by beerus excitement ), so ssg has a bigger multiplier already and ssb is at least 2* that and the manga makes it appear to be at max 10* ssg so ssb is probably more comparable to ssj4 gogeta ( probably stronger based on what they have shown ). So based on this what do we have ,we have that not only is ssg and ssb stronger than most if not all gt cast and not only that but ssg and ssb are bigger multipliers than ssj4 so if goku and vegeta had ssj4 when beerus showed up yes they would be impressed and rageta ssj4 would be ridiculously op but they still wouldnt be able to compete with beerus champa or any god charater ssj4 rageta may be able to be on ssg lvl but he lost that boost. Over all ssj4 on current base goku and vegeta would be very inpressive and would be used as an a form between ssj3 and ssg and would probably be used more than ssj3 due to it appearing more stable and reliable than ssj3 but wouldnt be useful agianst the likes of golden frieza, hit, or ssjr black but it would be able to compete with base black initially when he first appeared in the past so agian while it would be useful it wouldn't be there strongest form by any means.

[theherodjl]

There is a brief conversation between Beerus and SSJ4 Gogeta in Xenoverse.

Beerus: "Hohoho! That's an amazing power! Not bad at all!"
Gogeta: "Maybe I can win against Lord Beerus now."

Beerus is impressed but from the sound of Gogeta's statement that only "maybe" he can win, it seems that Beerus is still stronger and likely isn't using his full power even in this future. I guess if we want to define it as leaving a positive impression upon God-tier beings then SSJ4 does indeed impress them...however this isn't confirmation that SSJ4 is actually strong in comparison to them.