Why I think characters are becoming or became irrelevant

[dragon ball truth]

Yu Yu had the main cast still remained relevant compared to Yusuke power wise which one of the reasons I think YYH is a good series

It's good because of execution not because their powers were comparable to the main character. It wasn't even their spectral power that truly made them helpful. What made them helpful is the skills they brought to the table.

Actually, no the show would have easily died off for me had hiei or karama or kuwabara died out power wise to yusuke; however i think the lowest point in the series for me was when yusuke came back with his demon powers and ascended to s class levels and everyone else at the time was an on looker pretty much, i think the writer realised pretty much that that wasnt a good plan so in the 3 kings arc you get everyone including hiei and karama catching back up to yusuke, infact we have kurama and hiei potentially not going full power in the last tournament.

I also disagree, everyone in the show had special moments to shine, kuwabara is the one who originally was the only one to beat his opponents in the genkai tournament yusuke beat his opponents by luck, kuwabara came up with the idea to beat togoro in the first encounter and did, kuwabara yusuke and hiei also kurama all beat a saint beast, everyone got massive action in the dark tournament and yusuke only beat togoro because he was chosen to because it was fitting for him to get to face togoro being he killed yusuke's teacher, sensui arc was your one argument that you can bring up to try and say the main character:supporting main roles line was drawn but kuwabara was shown to potentially be the most powerful character in the show being that he was the only one who could destroy a dimension with his power, kurama was highlighted several times, and hiei fought yusuke in an even fight and prior to yusuke receiving his demon energy power boost all three of the supporting main roles had to have been actually stronger than yusuke especially after yusuke died and after he came back and the got even stronger, in the 3 kings arc yusuke, hiei, and kurama were all highlighted in heavy detail with a background story of either a former relationship with one of the 3 kings or a mutual common relationship or trait as they were all deemed as the new second in commands or for yusuke as the new king of raizens territory, the constant here that made the story successful and likeable is that not only were all the characters relevant power wise in the story in all of the story, but never did the disappear like in ALL of the continuations of z like gt and super just to suck goku and vegetas ----, AND the thing that is so bad is Yusuke had the potential to be the strongest and he was the main character and still the other characters were made useful and not just with some random trait or power, heck even side side side characters made appearances and were made useful like the Psychics; funny thing is we have atleast 3 other characters that by any and all means should be stronger than goku and vegeta by a lot that are good guys that arent and are MIA as far as their whereabouts, except chibi trunks for whatever reason.

The main character doesnt have to be the strongest (i.e, ryu in ronin warriors only the strongest when he had the inferno armor which was power from all the ronins, jean starwind of outlaw star definitely not the strongest good guy, and there are several other examples), i dont even want to go into detail of why goku wasnt the main character in dbz cause thats opening a new can of worms so i wont.

[Captain Strawberry]

I'm not sure what you disagree on

[ABED]

I'm not sure what you disagree on

I agree, I have zero clue why he's disagreeing with me, but I don't agree that the fight against Yusuke and Sensui was bad when he got resurrected. It was all building to a one on one fight between the two. Every main fight, had Yusuke's friends as onlookers. No one but Yusuke could've defeated Toguro or Sensui.

but kuwabara was shown to potentially be the most powerful character in the show being that he was the only one who could destroy a dimension with his power

That's not a case of him being stronger. It wasn't his strength, it was Kuwabara's special ability.

i dont even want to go into detail of why goku wasnt the main character in dbz cause thats opening a new can of worms so i wont.

Well, he is. The story revolves around him. It's not until the Buu arc that Gohan fully becomes the main character, but even Toriayma realized it wasn't working so Goku is made the main character again.

[dragon ball truth]

Main fight? all of the saint beasts were main fighters, and hiei beat his saint beast with no injuries, infact yusuke almost died in his fight; and kuwabara saved him.

No one but yusuke couldve beaten toguro? kuramas yoko form prior to the demon world tournament was confirmed to be before he escaped demon world to earth was A class and toguro was confirmed to be a b class, the plot lessened the character for that, so i doubt only yusuke couldve beated toguro with yusukes borrowed genkai powers.

Sensui? yusuke didnt beat sensui, raizen did; moot point.

The word strong comes in many forms, if raizen in his prime with 20 milion power reading couldnt get through the dimension; i would say kuwabara is very strong if he could.


Although gohan appeared in more episodes, only died 1 time and that was when he was sleep, SEVERAL breakout moments even when untrained, extremely meaningful character, had the first part of the saiyan series and through it pretty much highlighting him, damaged 3 of Freeza's 4 forms, Cell is self explanatory, gohan is the only character to have a movie devoted solely to him and that movie cross over to an arc which is part of the main story garlic jr.; even if that arc was a filler and not in the manga toriyama must have accepted it, and buu was lots of gohan buildup with bs to pull goku and vegeta back into the fight and insane scenario that was obvious in gohan and gotenks should have been brought back to the final battle.

Even the openings highlight a lot of gohan, dragon ball is definitely goku, lots of movies are too, gt, and movies 14 and 15 and most other expansions post dbz, but i cant really give goku z on his own.

[ABED]

Main fight? all of the saint beasts were main fighters, and hiei beat his saint beast with no injuries, infact yusuke almost died in his fight; and kuwabara saved him.

Suzaku was clearly the leader. Kurama was injured in his battle, so I wouldn't be using that as a gauge for who is stronger than whom. Yusuke came up against a stronger opponent, hence why he was injured. Granted, it's the dub episode title, but one of the episodes is called "Suzaku, Leader of the Beasts"

No one but yusuke couldve beaten toguro? kuramas yoko form prior to the demon world tournament was confirmed to be before he escaped demon world to earth was A class and toguro was confirmed to be a b class, the plot lessened the character for that, so i doubt only yusuke couldve beated toguro with yusukes borrowed genkai powers.

Yoko Kurama couldn't defeat Karasu before the time limit, and he was far weaker than Toguro. Yusuke didn't "borrow" Genkai's power, it was given to him, much like Genkai got it before. And it makes NO sense that the story wouldn't save the best fighter for last, so your logic falls apart right there. And what sense would it make to not have the strongest fighter face the strongest enemy? It's not a good strategy, nor is it good storytelling.

Sensui? yusuke didnt beat sensui, raizen did; moot point.

It was Raizen hijacking Yusuke's body. It was still Yusuke's power, and none of the other teammates could hold a candle to Sensui even together.

The word strong comes in many forms, if raizen in his prime with 20 milion power reading couldnt get through the dimension; i would say kuwabara is very strong if he could.

The barrier was put up to stop the strongest, so it's not surprising that the strongest demon couldn't get through. And sure, strong comes in many forms, but Kuwabara's power wasn't predicated on strength anymore than Gamemaster's.

Although gohan appeared in more episodes, only died 1 time and that was when he was sleep, SEVERAL breakout moments even when untrained, extremely meaningful character, had the first part of the saiyan series and through it pretty much highlighting him, damaged 3 of Freeza's 4 forms, Cell is self explanatory, gohan is the only character to have a movie devoted solely to him and that movie cross over to an arc which is part of the main story garlic jr.; even if that arc was a filler and not in the manga toriyama must have accepted it, and buu was lots of gohan buildup with bs to pull goku and vegeta back into the fight and insane scenario that was obvious in gohan and gotenks should have been brought back to the final battle.

Even the openings highlight a lot of gohan, dragon ball is definitely goku, lots of movies are too, gt, and movies 14 and 15 and most other expansions post dbz, but i cant really give goku z on his own.

How many times a character dies isn't relevant. Buffy dies twice, but she's clearly the main character. Gohan's an important character, but not THE main character. Who is the character who the fight against the big bads are building towards? Goku. Gohan got a lot of focus early on because he was new. Cell isn't self explanatory because Gohan was on the periphery the entire arc until the end, but even then it felt like Goku was still the one fighting with Gohan acting as Goku's proxy. Hell, Gohan needed Goku to tell him what to do and when to do it in order to kill Cell. In the Buu arc, he tries to put the focus on Gohan, but Gohan isn't that interesting as the main hero. That and he isn't the icon. Lastly, Gohan doesn't damage Freeza AT ALL. He gets some good shots in, but not so much as a scratch is made on Freeza's skin. Hell, Kuririn does more damage. Goku might share credit, but he still gets top billing.

[ParkerAL]

Gohan could have been an interesting main hero, depending on how Toriyama developed him. He's a kid who doesn't really like fighting, but who has been constantly forced into conflicts over the course of a (very) traumatic childhood. I'd say that provides decent material to build upon. A story arc looking at him overcoming his reluctance to step into his father's role while finally gaining control over his destiny could have worked.

I'm not saying this is a story Toriyama would have been able tell adequately, of course, especially when you consider how burned out he was at the time. In the end, Goku's central place in the series was far too ingrained to escape his orbit, and his creator picked a more laidback direction for Gohan's development. But the potential was there for something different, and I'm not surprised some fans still latch onto it.

[ABED]

Gohan could have been an interesting main hero, depending on how Toriyama developed him. He's a kid who doesn't really like fighting, but who has been constantly forced into conflicts over the course of a (very) traumatic childhood. I'd say that provides decent material to build upon. A story arc looking at him overcoming his reluctance to step into his father's role while finally gaining control over his destiny could have worked.

I'm not saying this is a story Toriyama would have been able tell adequately, of course, especially when you consider how burned out he was at the time. In the end, Goku's central place in the series was far too ingrained to escape his orbit, and his creator picked a more laidback direction for Gohan's development. But the potential was there for something different, and I'm not surprised some fans still latch onto it.

But Dragon Ball isn't that kind of story. It wasn't about Goku taking the mantel as the protector of the world and so Gohan taking a similar role just doesn't fit. Goku fits Dragon Ball's tone perfectly. I haven't seen a story where a different character in the lead role after a long run actually worked as well.

[Captain Strawberry]

Gohan could have been an interesting main hero, depending on how Toriyama developed him. He's a kid who doesn't really like fighting, but who has been constantly forced into conflicts over the course of a (very) traumatic childhood. I'd say that provides decent material to build upon. A story arc looking at him overcoming his reluctance to step into his father's role while finally gaining control over his destiny could have worked.

I'm not saying this is a story Toriyama would have been able tell adequately, of course, especially when you consider how burned out he was at the time. In the end, Goku's central place in the series was far too ingrained to escape his orbit, and his creator picked a more laidback direction for Gohan's development. But the potential was there for something different, and I'm not surprised some fans still latch onto it.

Actually, in my opinion, I think it isn't he doesn't like fighting but just that, he doesn't 'want' to.

[dragon ball truth]

So, youre saying that hiei wouldve been injured by suzaku? i really doubt youre really credible on that, and karama was injured in his less powerful state yusuke was injured using all of his power and his life energy and still was put in the ground and kuwabara had to save him; kuwabaras the main character in that instance since he saved yusuke.

I stopped reading when you said, "yoko kurama COULDNT have beaten karasu before the time limit" lol, he wasnt gowing anywhere near all out when fighting karasu, weaker than toguro? what did you not understand about A class vs B class?

You should really go back and watch that episode and some further ones again, yusukes power never reached levels like what he did in the fight against sensui even after he trained, raizen specifically said yusuke was a weakling and would have died to sensui had he not stepped in so it was raizens power; yusuke only has power because of the 2 sources donating power to him, raizen and genkai.

Your strongest argument is really a strange one at best, ill just leave it at that.

Even the openings highlight a lot of gohan, dragon ball is definitely goku, lots of movies are too, gt, and movies 14 and 15 and most other expansions post dbz, but i cant really give goku z on his own.[/quote]

Thats stupid, gohan fought waaaay more henchmen and frieza than goku did, and came back to fight frieza after goku got plowed into the ground by frieza, goku was an absent main character for several episodes especially in the frieza series. Gohan got a lot of focus period being he was in about 97% or more of all the dbz episodes.

Cell I'm afraid is self explanatory, the foreshadowing and setup leading up to gohan even entering the battlefield hinted that the fight would happen like the dream of cell killing his mom to gohan turning ssj the same time and day as cell achieving his final form, goku himself said gohan was far beyond needing his help when Piccolo claimed gokus fight having gohan watch helped him.

Gohan lost faith in himself after loosing his arm usage, heck goku lost faith in the frieza series when frieza was pounding him in his 60% form, and vegeta came to him and incouraged him along with bardock and king vegeta; does that make vegeta, bardock, and king vegeta the main characters in the frieza arc; not goku and vegeta?

Saying gohan isnt an interesting character is a HEAVILY tall tale piece of crap opinion, most likely made by hating goku fans mad that gohan overshadowed their favorite character in power two series' in a row; it's a myth, nothing more. Isnt the icon?

Being with the openings, and outros and several box covers with him on them, and you still cant say anything concerning the fact that gohans the only one with a movie that ties into his own series in the show, where the heck was goku the entire arc? never was gohan left out of any of dbz that much, unless dead.

Doesnt damage frieza at all, thats not what frieza said, "the pain you have caused me, ill pay it back ten fold" the word pain was mentioned sir, go home; krillens attack was a sneak attack, vegeta who got no hits mocked krillens power even saying before Kuririn shots him in the stomach when Kuririn said he might hurt him, "bad chance you looser, ill lower my defenses so even you can damage me" how could he damage frieza when he couldnt even damage a vegeta whos weaker than the frieza gohan put in the dirt?

Then gohan single handedly forced frieza into his 4th form and put frieza on high alert, at 5 years old and said he had to watch him; gohans the main frieza arc character and cell and most of buu get over it and he has his own arc, raditz is even mostly about him and he saved gokus life and technically beat vegeta, not a scratch is made on Freeza's skin?

Lol, Piccolo shot frieza with a blast plus Freeza's and frieza had more or less no damage (physically) but everyone said Freeza's power dropped dramatically, cell had fought goku the entire time, and appeared to have no physical damage either but his power was said to be waaaaay down; so physical damage means nothing, if physical damage meant something then i guess other than frieza cutting himself in half, Kuririn did the most damage to frieza and is the main character; redundant statement kid.

[ABED]

So, youre saying that hiei wouldve been injured by suzaku?

Wow, not remotely what I wrote.

I stopped reading when you said, "yoko kurama COULDNT have beaten karasu before the time limit" lol, he wasnt gowing anywhere near all out when fighting karasu, weaker than toguro? what did you not understand about A class vs B class?

I understand it fine, but it makes no sense to send your strongest warrior in first against a lackey.
I'm not going to go line by line as there's zero reason to and you have misinterpretted me several times, but I think you don't quite understand basic storytelling. It makes ZERO sense to not save the strongest/best for last.

Saying gohan isnt an interesting character

Not what I wrote either. I said he wasn't that interesting as the main hero. Probably should've written "He doesn't work well as the main hero of Dragon Ball." I like Gohan fine, just not as the main hero and your statement about him not being interesting is a tall tale, assuming I did write that, would just be opinions. Whether Gohan is or isn't interesting is a matter of taste.

redundant statement kid.

It's just a TV show, no reason to get condescending. Take a walk.