Is SSJ Blue the most underwhelming transformation in the history of Dragon Ball?

[kaioken12]

Hi,

I thought about something and I would like some opinions on the matter. It will be a somewhat longer text, but please bear with me here.
So I recently re-watched a lot of Dragon Ball Z and some of GT - and then, of course, DB Super. And somehow I came to realize that SSJ Blue just feels very underwhelming to me on every possible level that I can look at it.

Now this is not about the art style or that a re-colored SSJ form would be lazy. It is more about that I did not feel these typical vibes of a huge, new powerful form from it.

Let me try to elaborate. Let's look at the manga (or DBZ) first.

During the Namek arc, Goku (base) was casually pummeled by Freeza. But when Goku went SSJ, he became "super strong" through his rage. And at this point, he could easily overpower Freeza. You felt the impact of this transformation. The raw
increase in his power.
Following that, there were several iterations of SSJ1 like "Super Vegeta" or the "full power SSJ" form. And finally, Gohan's transformation to SSJ2 during the Cell Games.
Again, these new SSJ forms - and especially SSJ2 - felt like a huge leap in terms of power, compared to their respective predecessors.
Even during the Boo saga, SSJ2 would remain to be a force to be reckon with. And finally SSJ3 presented the next step - being yet again a huge power increase beyond the limits of SSJ2 and allowing Goku to battle Majin Boo.

Moreover, whatever one might think of DB GT, the same is principally true for SSJ4. It felt like a huge step compared to SSJ3, as it allowed Goku to battle foes far beyond what he could take on in SSJ3.

So essentially, each of the golden SSJ forms (and SSJ4) were very powerful transformations, pushing our Saiyan protagonists beyond their limits and enabling them to fight enemys, which were felt unbeatable before.

Now, in DB Super, the series starts with Goku's SSJ3 and Vegeta's rage-fueled SSJ2 both easily beaten to a pulp by Beerus, which shows us how outclassed the formerly most powerful forms are against this new opponent.
Then SSJ God (red) Goku arises and is able to fight on par with Beerus. The latter was obviously holding back, but you can "feel" the increase in power that SSJG delivers compared to SSJ2 or SSJ3. It is even literally stated to be a whole new world in terms of power. So we can still count SSJG (red) into the above-mentioned array of SSJ iterations that just felt significantly more powerful.

But then, there came SSJ Blue. The form was attained by both Goku and Vegeta through their training with Whis. However, they never really explained, how it actually compares to SSJG Red. It is somewhat implied that it is a stronger form. But even during its inital presentation in the "Resurrection F" arc, SSJ Blue barely allows Goku to keep up with Golden Freeza. Beforehand, Goku (base) had fought on par with Freeza's final form. In other words, SSJ Blue did give Goku less of a power-up than the Golden form gave to Freeza. And we are talking about someone, who had only trained for mere four months by continuously beating up weaker underlings of his. Someone, who did not even possess any God Ki.
Technicalities aside, most importantly, this made SSJ Blue feel not really "powerful" at all. SSJ Blue did not have the lasting impact that all the other SSJ forms had delivered during their initial presentation.

And this representation of SSJ Blue would sadly continue throughout the following episodes and arcs. During the tournament, SSJ Blue Vegeta is knocked out fast by Hit, while Base Goku is taking the same punches without going down. Again, let's take aside any arguments or discussions about how Goku may not have been as worn-out as Vegeta etc. The take-home message again is, that SSJ Blue did not really feel like the state-of-the-art SSJ form, i.e. the current maximum, insane increase of power. Okay, it had been shown to surpass SSJ1, when Vegeta knocked out Cabbe. But let's be honest, he could have pulled the same thing off in SSJ2, had he not wanted to show SSJ Blue to Cabbe.

Finally, during the Future Trunks arc, SSJ Blue is already outclassed. It is already weaker than Base Goku Black and inferior to SSJ Rose Goku Black. Yet again, the form just does not feel that powerful. It already feels like it can be cast aside to be replaced by a better transformation. Of course, we do not know what will happen, but I really can't see SSJ Blue become "relevant" and delivering said "impact" anymore.

So in the end, SSJ Blue feels like the most underwhelming and disappointing SSJ form ever to me. It just did not make any lasting impression and I doubt it will.

What do you think? Am I too harsh to SSJ Blue? Or was another form performing weaker in your opinion?

[Anime Kitten]

It may be presented as the most underwhelming, but I'd take that over "OWOWGOHANWENTSSJ2!!!1!1!1!1!1" It's a breath of fresh air, much like Beerus. It's finally a form that's not essentially a guaranteed win.

I do disagree with the Super Saiyan God part, though. It was just as whelming as Blue IMO.

[Bansho64]

Yeah. I'd definitely call it the most underwhelming. I actually like the Super Saiyajin God transformation but I was never a fan of the Blue one.

[Xeztin]

I think during BoG I could feel the power of SSG when Goku transformed and fought with Beerus, you could feel that this was a legitimate power up by the thousands. SSJB felt... Underwhelming and honestly too calm for my taste. I feel like SSG was calm because it represented the good in some Sayians, the pure hearts. Ever since Mastered Super Saiyan from the Cell saga, Super Saiyan has felt lack-luster. I think that's why most people go to SSJ2 as their favorite because it still has that straining-badass-I'm going to kill you-feeling to it. I felt like Super Saiyan Blue should have been like Super Saiyan was in the Freeza saga when it was first introduced, God Ki is new so it'd be understandable if SSJB came from a rage explosion. It felt so calm that it was almost like Goku had God Ki since the start of Dragon Ball, I would have loved for it to have it's draw-backs and imperfections so that we could watch them master it like the original Super Saiyan. Blue is definitely the most underwhelming ever.

[ekrolo2]

I guess it is? I didn't think we'd have any more transformations after SSGod, especially since BoG and Toriyama were seemingly going to streamline things and make Base & SS Goku & Vegeta's main forms from now on. To break from that possibility for what's essentially Blue Super Saiyan is disappointing. Then again, 4 is the only form that has anything approaching actual thought put into its acquiring and design and had no input from Toriyama so....

[Xeztin]

I guess it is? I didn't think we'd have any more transformations after SSGod, especially since BoG and Toriyama were seemingly going to streamline things and make Base & SS Goku & Vegeta's main forms from now on. To break from that possibility for what's essentially Blue Super Saiyan is disappointing. Then again, 4 is the only form that has anything approaching actual thought put into its acquiring and design and had no input from Toriyama so....

I just hope the next one isn't a recolor or a recolor of SSJ2, I don't think they can recolor anymore just for the fact of Super Saiyan Rose. If Rose is Black's version of Blue, any other recolor that was supposed to surpass those would be confusing. Hopefully they don't recolor SSJ2.

[Kanassa]

I guess it is? I didn't think we'd have any more transformations after SSGod, especially since BoG and Toriyama were seemingly going to streamline things and make Base & SS Goku & Vegeta's main forms from now on. To break from that possibility for what's essentially Blue Super Saiyan is disappointing. Then again, 4 is the only form that has anything approaching actual thought put into its acquiring and design and had no input from Toriyama so....

I just hope the next one isn't a recolor or a recolor of SSJ2, I don't think they can recolor anymore just for the fact of Super Saiyan Rose. If Rose is Black's version of Blue, any other recolor that was supposed to surpass those would be confusing. Hopefully they don't recolor SSJ2.

Meh, it would be better than jsut adding sparks.

[ekrolo2]

Meh, it would be better than jsut adding sparks.

Once again feeding into the idea that Toriyama's never been really great with designing SS forms. Honestly, they should've just called up Nakatsuru to design SSGod and it's successor.

[Kanassa]

Meh, it would be better than jsut adding sparks.

Once again feeding into the idea that Toriyama's never been really great with designing SS forms. Honestly, they should've just called up Nakatsuru to design SSGod and it's successor.

Yeah, with all the hate the transformations in GT and Super get, they are far better than SS2 and 3 is my eyes. SS4 was the most creative Super Saiyan design

[nite_jay]

Well, if you're saying in the whole history of Dragonball then it'd probably be Piccolo's big Namek transformation in the tournament.

[Bansho64]

Once again feeding into the idea that Toriyama's never been really great with designing SS forms. Honestly, they should've just called up Nakatsuru to design SSGod and it's successor.

I still can't believe they got Yamamuro running the show with his garbage, yet Nakatsuru barely does anything. I'm utterly baffled. Nakatsuru's literally progressed the best in terms of DB designs.

[ekrolo2]

Once again feeding into the idea that Toriyama's never been really great with designing SS forms. Honestly, they should've just called up Nakatsuru to design SSGod and it's successor.

I still can't believe they got Yamamuro running the show with his garbage, yet Nakatsuru barely does anything. I'm utterly baffled. Nakatsuru's literally progressed the best in terms of DB designs.

I'd have taken his cape design for SSGod over what we got honestly. I've probably put a bounty on my head courtesy of Ajay for saying that but fuck it I'm not afraid to die

[Anime Kitten]

I still can't believe they got Yamamuro running the show with his garbage, yet Nakatsuru barely does anything. I'm utterly baffled. Nakatsuru's literally progressed the best in terms of DB designs.

Why so much Yamamuro hate as of recently? The designs aren't even that bad.

[saiyanvegetable]

By far, due to the circumstances and enemy that Goku was facing at the time. Execution was just poor, it didn't feel like a milestone, and the transformation itself just sucked.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

I still can't believe they got Yamamuro running the show with his garbage, yet Nakatsuru barely does anything. I'm utterly baffled. Nakatsuru's literally progressed the best in terms of DB designs.

Why so much Yamamuro hate as of recently? The designs aren't even that bad.

Yamamuro is not the guy who he used to be. He has lost his skill significantly, hell I would go as far as to say that even old school Yamamuro was nothing special. His character designs are lifeless and robotic and to put it bluntly plain ugly. If that isn't enough he heavily corrects other animators' drawings who are far more talented than him.

The day Yamamuro steps down I would jump in joy but sadly that won't happen anytime soon, not until Morishita is chairman of Toei Animation.

- Travis

[Kishido]

SSG and SSB are boring as hell. Just color swaps which even looks stupid.

Why I despise GT I love Super Saiyan 4. It is unique as hell and is using the great ape as concept.

Something which is forgotton right now... The tails and apes

[Ki Breaker]

Naah.. Mystic gohan transformation is the the most underwhelming one..
Never achieved a single thing and became non existent after that..

At least blue sticks around, one shotted Cabba beat up a depowered freeza and keeps up with rosé

[ParkerAL]

Yeah, Super Saiyan Blue is pretty lame, I must say. More so than any form before, it feels like a cynical ploy to sell toys, with hardly any narrative justification for its existence. I mean, what's the point of having it when Goku and Vegeta keep using their regular Super Saiyan transformations all the time. Why couldn't Super Saiyan God last as the shiny new form for at least a few more story arcs?

All that, and the hair color is pretty tacky. I mean, Future Trunks can rock a blue hairdo fine, but it doesn't look good on our favorite pure blood Saiyans.

I like a lot of things in Dragon Ball Super, but Super Saiyan Blue is possibly the part of the show I like the least.

[kaioken12]

Naah.. Mystic gohan transformation is the the most underwhelming one..
Never achieved a single thing and became non existent after that..

At least blue sticks around, one shotted Cabba beat up a depowered freeza and keeps up with rosé

If we would really treat Gohan's final form as an actual transformation, I still kind of disagree with your statement for one reason: It did have an impact in terms of power.
When Gohan first showed off his power, Goku reacted surprised/shocked to the huge power-up he received. Gohan subsequently easily dominated Super Boo - apparently with less difficulty than Gotenks SSJ3.
Sadly, this form didn't really achieve anything, because it was then overpowered by Super Boo+Gotenks+Piccolo. But still, Gohan was a beast at this point.

As for SSJ Blue, you even named some of the specific problems yourself.

1.) It one shotted Cabba.
That's all nice and stuff, but even SSJ2 or their new supposedly god-ki infused base* form should have been able to do that. So it doesn't show SSJ Blue being any special at all.

2.) It beat up a depowered Freeza.
Again nice, but this is exactly something that I didn't like. On its introduction, it was already weaker than fully powered, non-God-Ki Golden Freeza. Again, no awe points for SSJ Blue.

3.) It keeps up with Rosé.
Well, this is a tricky one. Black was tanking SSJ Blue Vegeta's punches in base already. Then neither Goku nor Vegeta could put a scratch on Rosé. So much for that. And to contradict things even more, SSJ (2) Trunks could keep up as good as SSJ Blue Goku with Black's SSJ Rosé.

So yeah, while SSJ Blue sticks around longer than Gohan's "mystic form", it really didn't show any impact at all ever since it was introduced. I mean, by that you could argue that Kuririn is still sticking around. This wouldn't make him relevant though anymore in terms of raw fighting strength



* = To clarify, I am referring to the base form that was able to battle Freeza 4th form after SSJ Gohan had been one shotted by his 1st form. Or the one in which Copy Vegeta dominated SSJ3 Gotenks.

[Ki Breaker]

Naah.. Mystic gohan transformation is the the most underwhelming one..
Never achieved a single thing and became non existent after that..

At least blue sticks around, one shotted Cabba beat up a depowered freeza and keeps up with rosé

If we would really treat Gohan's final form as an actual transformation, I still kind of disagree with your statement for one reason: It did have an impact in terms of power.
When Gohan first showed off his power, Goku reacted surprised/shocked to the huge power-up he received. Gohan subsequently easily dominated Super Boo - apparently with less difficulty than Gotenks SSJ3.
Sadly, this form didn't really achieve anything, because it was then overpowered by Super Boo+Gotenks+Piccolo. But still, Gohan was a beast at this point.

As for SSJ Blue, you even named some of the specific problems yourself.

1.) It one shotted Cabba.
That's all nice and stuff, but even SSJ2 or their new supposedly god-ki infused base* form should have been able to do that. So it doesn't show SSJ Blue being any special at all.

2.) It beat up a depowered Freeza.
Again nice, but this is exactly something that I didn't like. On its introduction, it was already weaker than fully powered, non-God-Ki Golden Freeza. Again, no awe points for SSJ Blue.

3.) It keeps up with Rosé.
Well, this is a tricky one. Black was tanking SSJ Blue Vegeta's punches in base already. Then neither Goku nor Vegeta could put a scratch on Rosé. So much for that. And to contradict things even more, SSJ (2) Trunks could keep up as good as SSJ Blue Goku with Black's SSJ Rosé.

So yeah, while SSJ Blue sticks around longer than Gohan's "mystic form", it really didn't show any impact at all ever since it was introduced. I mean, by that you could argue that Kuririn is still sticking around. This wouldn't make him relevant though anymore in terms of raw fighting strength



* = To clarify, I am referring to the base form that was able to battle Freeza 4th form after SSJ Gohan had been one shotted by his 1st form. Or the one in which Copy Vegeta dominated SSJ3 Gotenks.

Naah man..
While my favorite transformation is mystic gohan.. So much so that I wrote a whole story about him vs freeza ROF some days ago here..
Mystic gohan did not at all get how much love it should have gotten..
Sure it was keeping up with buu for a very very short amount of time.. That's it..

Nearly beaten to death by buutenks
Wasn't used during kid buu's defeat
Berrus one kicks him
In super he is defeated by buu thrown at him
Makes you thik he is a lame guy..


Blue you can also argue was helping them keep up with God's who were going around fingerfliking ssj3's and ragetas..

And gohan said it's a power I can't even dream of reaching now..
( I don't know if that was a sub thing, but I remember seeing it )

But yaa.. Blue is close second to being a underwhelming transformation in my book..
If I was not told i would assume it was weaker than ssj god