"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The point was that Toyotaro shamelessly throws them in all the time. But why don't we just agree that misplaced homages are bad no matter where they show up?

[saiyanvegetable]

The point was that Toyotaro shamelessly throws them in all the time. But why don't we just agree that misplaced homages are bad no matter where they show up?

Like I said, I enjoyed the trunks/Gohan panel. It was a nice subtle ode to the teacher/student relationship between the two. If you want to talk about "shamelessly throwing them in all the time" (which is hardly the case), look no further than the anime.

The only argument here is if he "references" the older panels due to lack of inspiration, (which he had been known to do) but that hardly qualifies as a homage.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I was using the term "homage" as a friendly way of saying that he ripped them straight from another person's (notably Toriyama's) work.

[kinisking]

It's amazing how you give the anime a complete pass (with a million excuses) as to why it's OK for it to rip complete scenes from Z in the most uninspiring way, versus a panel here and there in the Manga. Trunks vs Dabura was a nice homage whereas the anime is well...we all know by now.

Again, the anime does it ten times less. Not only that, it does it in scenes that are directly related to the scene its referencing. Which actually makes sense. They're not trying to hide the homages, unlike the manga. The manga does it everywhere, with no rhyme or reason. That makes me think it's a lack of talent, rather than a true homage.

And also, that's the thing. The manga doesn't have an excuse.

The Manga is trying to hide homages? Uhh? The anime throws in cheap lazy throwbacks to try to stir up nostalgia but the Manga "doesn't have an excuse"? One is a cohesive successor to Toriyama's original work that actually respects it's characters and their history, while the other is an embarrassing toy commercial. Apples and oranges my friend.

The fact that these" homages " are thrown in randomly, without rhyme or reason means that they aren't there for appealing to nostalgia at all. They are there because lack of talent and confidence. And no, the manga is a commercial for the" embarrassing toy commercial ".

[dbgtFO]

Both mediums make homages to the original work and own fanfiction. To me though it's less jarring in the manga, as the Final Flash homage takes the cake for being the most annoying.
But saying the homages in the manga are random is a bit silly, one should perhaps take another look at them and realize why they are there, instead of just going "oh that is obviously because of lack of talent!"

[Bansho64]

The fact that these" homages " are thrown in randomly, without rhyme or reason means that they aren't there for appealing to nostalgia at all. They are there because lack of talent and confidence. And no, the manga is a commercial for the" embarrassing toy commercial ".

It's way too soon to start stating the part I bolded like it's an undeniable fact. For all we know, he could've been told to do those homages. Dislike them all you want, but insulting Toyotaro seems like a big step in the wrong direction.

[MCDaveG]

I am sorry, I forgot, but when will be the Super manga released in tankobon format in US?

[Heliocentrizzle]

I'm saying that same tree [manga/anime] just grew more apples.
If the manga stated Goku can not go kaioken in SSJB and the anime did it, then it's a different story!
But the anime just showed Goku can go Kaioken in SSJB and the manga never stated that he could not. So it is not a contradiction.
Toriyama checks each chapter and says YES to each!

Why does the manga have to say that he can't? That has nothing to do with this. They literally cannot be the same story because different events happened in the anime and the manga.

Because Dragonball Super manga and anime are checked by Toriyama. If story says one can't do something and the other does it then that would be a contradiction. Different story. However what we witnessed is supplemented info from the anime. None of this refutes the manga in anyway. The anime and manga of Dragonball Super simply compliments one another. Toriyama HIMSELF checks each chapter making sure it is on track!

The fact that Goku going kaioken in the anime by no means contradicts the manga because the manga never stated that he could not go Kaioken in god form. The story is the same, one just supplements the other. Toriyama checks each chapter and says YES to each!


I'm saying that same tree [manga/anime] just grew more apples.
If the manga stated Goku can not go kaioken in SSJB and the anime did it, then it's a different story!
But the anime just showed Goku can go Kaioken in SSJB and the manga never stated that he could not. So it is not a contradiction.

But he didn't, he won the tournament in different ways. The metaphor totally passed by your head.

Let me try to explain in a more practical way. I'm going to Columbus, Ohio at 9AM on 10/1/2016, then I'm going to Charlotte, North Carolina at 9AM on 10/1/2016. After going to these places, I will head immediately home, no extra stops.

According to the principles you're going by, that timeline makes perfect sense. You're saying that I can be at the same place at the same time, and as long as the end result is the same, or the other trip could conceivably have been made, there are no contradictions. That's clearly not the case.

This example is not good. Those two trips are a clear contradiction. Two entirely different locations at the same time.
You're example proves my point further. Goku did not say that he could use kaioken in SSJB in anime and can not in the manga! No match....Thank you!
At the end of the day Toriyama checks and approves both, they are the same story!

I'm quickly going to add this to the whole discussion, I'm sure it'll put things into perspective.

Goku and Vegeta have both fully mastered the SSJ-form. Which means that just sustaining the form doesn't wear them out, whereas forms as SSJ2 and SSJ3 do (although SSJ2 does it to a lesser degree than SSJ3).
The SJB-form has been stated as simply being an SSJ form, infused with godly ki. So the basic rule of the fully powered SSJ-form still stands while using god ki.

Now, in the anime, this whole thing has been respected, and Vegeta vs Hit and Goku vs Hit basically came down to Hit having the edge with the time leap technique, and him continuously improving throughout the fight. Not a mention of SSB draining stamina or anything.
In the manga, however, Goku goes SSG, because of the fact that the blue form supposedly drains his stamina too quickly. As proven by Vegeta's state by the time he got to fight Hit. In the anime, Vegeta was simply outclassed, while the manga makes it so he loses the battle due to being worn out, rather than to being outclassed.

The main story is still the same, they're part of the same main continuity. But certain parts have played out so differently that it's acceptable to call the grey area in between the two a different continuity.

[kinisking]

The fact that these" homages " are thrown in randomly, without rhyme or reason means that they aren't there for appealing to nostalgia at all. They are there because lack of talent and confidence. And no, the manga is a commercial for the" embarrassing toy commercial ".

It's way too soon to start stating the part I bolded like it's an undeniable fact. For all we know, he could've been told to do those homages. Dislike them all you want, but insulting Toyotaro seems like a big step in the wrong direction.

The chance of that is pretty much zero. Why would they tell him to do a bunch of unnecessary "homages".

[Bansho64]

The chance of that is pretty much zero. Why would they tell him to do a bunch of unnecessary "homages".

I don't know. But it's more realistic to believe rather than just insulting the guy and say he has a lack of talent and no confidence. Like I said, dislike them all you want, but the insults to Toyotaro seem very unwarranted and rude.

In my opinion, I'd call his a lot better. Mainly because of the fact that they're pictures, which I stand more compared to a replication of a whole scene. And because of the fact that they actually look drawn well to me. That Final Flash scene, it was horrible in my eyes.

[Nejishiki]

I am sorry, I forgot, but when will be the Super manga released in tankobon format in US?

Spring 2017 should be its release period.

Now, in the anime, this whole thing has been respected, and Vegeta vs Hit and Goku vs Hit basically came down to Hit having the edge with the time leap technique, and him continuously improving throughout the fight. Not a mention of SSB draining stamina or anything.
In the manga, however, Goku goes SSG, because of the fact that the blue form supposedly drains his stamina too quickly. As proven by Vegeta's state by the time he got to fight Hit. In the anime, Vegeta was simply outclassed, while the manga makes it so he loses the battle due to being worn out, rather than to being outclassed.

Goku mentioned Super Saiyan Blue using stamina in the anime, too. It's not maintaining Super Saiyan Blue that's the problem, it's consecutively switching the power on and off.

[Helios518]

I am sorry, I forgot, but when will be the Super manga released in tankobon format in US?

Spring 2017 should be its release period.

Now, in the anime, this whole thing has been respected, and Vegeta vs Hit and Goku vs Hit basically came down to Hit having the edge with the time leap technique, and him continuously improving throughout the fight. Not a mention of SSB draining stamina or anything.
In the manga, however, Goku goes SSG, because of the fact that the blue form supposedly drains his stamina too quickly. As proven by Vegeta's state by the time he got to fight Hit. In the anime, Vegeta was simply outclassed, while the manga makes it so he loses the battle due to being worn out, rather than to being outclassed.

Goku mentioned Super Saiyan Blue using stamina in the anime, too. It's not maintaining Super Saiyan Blue that's the problem, it's consecutively switching the power on and off.

Anime! Goku didn't seem to imply that it loses power in the same way the manga does but we'll see next episode if that's the case considering Vegeta went SSJB just to go back to his base 2 second later.

[Nejishiki]

Super Saiyan Rosé would weaken Goku Black, too. He also dropped his power. However, my message wasn't meant to reference that segment of anime continuity. I wasn't specific enough and that's my fault. I only meant to clarify that stamina issues were cited in both sources. I also wanted to elaborate what Super Saiyan Blue's weaknesses were in the manga.

[ekrolo2]

I'm not overly fond of how either the anime or the manga dealt with the whole "Goku is 10 times stronger than Vegeta!" angle but I'll take the manga simply because it doesn't retcon shit from before to make the laziest transformation in the franchise look better.

[kinisking]

I'm not overly fond of how either the anime or the manga dealt with the whole "Goku is 10 times stronger than Vegeta!" angle but I'll take the manga simply because it doesn't retcon shit from before to make the laziest transformation in the franchise look better.

I just wish that they didn't reintroduce ssg. Then the manga version would have been perfect. Although kaioken was amazing to see again, it's something that should return with the human /namekian cast.

[ekrolo2]

I'm not overly fond of how either the anime or the manga dealt with the whole "Goku is 10 times stronger than Vegeta!" angle but I'll take the manga simply because it doesn't retcon shit from before to make the laziest transformation in the franchise look better.

I just wish that they didn't reintroduce ssg. Then the manga version would have been perfect. Although kaioken was amazing to see again, it's something that should return with the human /namekian cast.

I like it because it uncomplicates the power levels of the manga considerably by just making it another transformation and doing away with the whole absorption business.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Both mediums make homages to the original work and own fanfiction. To me though it's less jarring in the manga, as the Final Flash homage takes the cake for being the most annoying.
But saying the homages in the manga are random is a bit silly, one should perhaps take another look at them and realize why they are there, instead of just going "oh that is obviously because of lack of talent!"

They don't have greater purpose, they're just thrown in at random. We know this because Toyble has always traced whenever he isn't satisfied with or doesn't want to do his own work. Maybe it's not jarring for you because you don't know the original manga as well as some of us. For some that are more familiar with it, it's just as bad.

[TheMikado]

Both mediums make homages to the original work and own fanfiction. To me though it's less jarring in the manga, as the Final Flash homage takes the cake for being the most annoying.
But saying the homages in the manga are random is a bit silly, one should perhaps take another look at them and realize why they are there, instead of just going "oh that is obviously because of lack of talent!"

They don't have greater purpose, they're just thrown in at random. We know this because Toyble has always traced whenever he isn't satisfied with or doesn't want to do his own work. Maybe it's not jarring for you because you don't know the original manga as well as some of us. For some that are more familiar with it, it's just as bad.

Wow those are some pretty big claims there.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Both mediums make homages to the original work and own fanfiction. To me though it's less jarring in the manga, as the Final Flash homage takes the cake for being the most annoying.
But saying the homages in the manga are random is a bit silly, one should perhaps take another look at them and realize why they are there, instead of just going "oh that is obviously because of lack of talent!"

They don't have greater purpose, they're just thrown in at random. We know this because Toyble has always traced whenever he isn't satisfied with or doesn't want to do his own work. Maybe it's not jarring for you because you don't know the original manga as well as some of us. For some that are more familiar with it, it's just as bad.

Wow those are some pretty big claims there.

It's really not (aside from a little embellishment on the possible motives). Have you read Toyble's AF?

[Bansho64]

It's really not. Have you read Toyble's AF?

I think he was more pointing to the part where you said the guy apparently doesn't know the manga as well as you and some others, just because he doesn't have a big problem with Toyotaro's homages. Kinda condescending there.