"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Patrolman Jaco]

There's nothing lazy about it. How many times have their pants been ripped off? And why haven't they? Think about it.

There's nothing lazy about Toei copying and pasting a shot straight from the original anime and ignoring discrepancies like Future Trunks' hair length and his Saiyan armour tier Sweater. Yeah, not buying it.

If he's making excuses so are you.

How am I making excuses exactly?

Of course making the same attack gives a reason to reuse stuff because that's exactly the point, it's supposed to mirror that past instance.

No it doesn't, did Future Trunks using Final Flash in DBS look almost exactly like the scene of Vegeta doing it in the original anime? No.
Hell that GIF I just posted was Future Trunks using SS Grade 3 in one of the old DBZ movies and it also didn't copying and paste shot composition from the same transform in the original anime. Again, you're just making excuses for the anime.

You're conveniently forgetting that Toei had to animate everything again and spend precious time doing it, whereas Toyotarou probably spends 10~15 minutes tracing the panels he wants.

I'm conveniently forgetting about your speculation?

That wasn't an homage, that was just a character doing stuff. As far as I remember, It wasn't even that big of a deal (except for Gohan), the plot moved forward without giving it much notice.

Yeah, it wasn't hence the quotation marks they just copied and pasted Piccolo's death from the Saiyan arc and slapped it on the RoF arc, so rehash really.

[alakazam^]

There's nothing lazy about Toei copying and pasting a shot straight from the original anime and ignoring discrepancies like Future Trunks' hair length and his Saiyan armour tier Sweater. Yeah, not buying it.

No, because that was the point, for people to remember his one-off past transformation. And you didn't answer why no pants have ever been ripped off in battle, manga and anime alike, if Toei is so lazy because they stretched a Capsule Corporation sweater. If you don't want to buy it, don't ask the price.

How am I making excuses exactly?

No it doesn't, did Future Trunks using Final Flash in DBS look almost exactly like the scene of Vegeta doing it in the original anime? No.
Hell that GIF I just posted was Future Trunks using SS Grade 3 in one of the old DBZ movies and it also didn't copying and paste shot composition from the same transform in the original anime. Again, you're just making excuses for the anime.

No, because Trunks never did so when he was around unlike Vegeeta, which was one of his iconic scenes against Cell. What Trunks did back then was use his 3rd Grade, which is what they reanimated. See the pattern? They are purposefully referencing the same scenes, they aren't trying to fool people into thinking they aren't the same. They hardly ever animate attacks and transformations the same way, so when they do, it's because it's a conscious decision.

Oh, so you're using lazy Toei to prove that Toei isn't lazy? In the same movie Broli grew in size in his non-Freezarubber clothes? Ok. I guess 3rd Grade Trunks skipped leg day, as well?

That's how you are making excuses.

I'm conveniently forgetting about your speculation?

I'm not speculating that Toei spent more time animating that whole sequence when they could've cut corners doing something else than Toyotarou takes to trace whichever panel or pose.

Yeah, it wasn't hence the quotation marks they just copied and pasted Piccolo's death from the Saiyan arc and slapped it on the RoF arc, so rehash really.

Except it doesn't look anything like when Piccolo died against Nappa, unless you're saying Toriyama invented the trope of people jumping in front of an attack to protect someone.

[brett wheeler]

the manga and anime are two different continuums yes, but that does not mean two different story's. Toriyama writes the outline toie does the script for the anime gives it to him he approves and or disprove of stuff gives it back they change it to something he approves of and then makes the anime based off that script. Toyataro gets the outline draws the manga and again toriyama approves or disapproves of different things until they get the final outcome then we get the chapter, what this means is that both events can happen atleast as far as toriyama believes he believes ssbkk is completely possible and gokut turning ssg is completely possible there both feats goku is capable of but one showed one side of it the other shows the other side, does that make one wrong and one right no it just means they both are believable and both are possible to toriyama and his outline.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

the manga and anime are two different continuums yes, but that does not mean two different story's. Toriyama writes the outline toie does the script for the anime gives it to him he approves and or disprove of stuff gives it back they change it to something he approves of and then makes the anime based off that script. Toyataro gets the outline draws the manga and again toriyama approves or disapproves of different things until they get the final outcome then we get the chapter, what this means is that both events can happen atleast as far as toriyama believes he believes ssbkk is completely possible and gokut turning ssg is completely possible there both feats goku is capable of but one showed one side of it the other shows the other side, does that make one wrong and one right no it just means they both are believable and both are possible to toriyama and his outline.

We all agree on this already.

[Miracles]

Miracles, no offense, I don't think you understand what continuity means. Stories do not have to contradict each other to be separate. If different events happen, contradicting or not, they are two different stories in two different continuities.

This has been explained to you beyond all reason. Just because Toriyama approves both, doesn't mean that they're exactly the same (which is necessary for it to be considered the same continuity).



You just described different version of the same story that use a similar principle, fantastic! However, you saying this means that the rules established by one necessarily sets precedent for the other is pulled right from your ass. Never has this been established, it's total fiction straight from the depths of your imagination.



Neat, we know this. It doesn't actually mean anything, it's just one more step in the production prices, but you're right that it happens.



Toriyama has 0 authority here. Once approves both individual stories, both release, and then they have to stand by their own merits. However, the idea that Toriyama can't approve two contradictory stories is, once again, total fiction.


(PS: I'm still convinced that this whole thing stems from you not knowing what continuity is. Use a dictionary, a thesaurus, anything!)

Canon [Authority] is continuity, whatever the author says is Dragonball; Which is Dragonball Super, that is the anime and manga of Super, is so.

No, that's not what continuity is. Continuity implies a single, non-contradictory chain or web of events. If there are two different versions of one event, you can deduce one specific canon that incorperates both, but you cannot meld them into one continuity (unless you're personally re-writing it, in which case, all bets are off).

"something that is the same or similar in two or more things and provides a connection between them"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/continuity

Your fan fiction statements definitely have not been in continuity with what is officially authority...That is with Toriyama and Webster.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Canon [Authority] is continuity, whatever the author says is Dragonball; Which is Dragonball Super, that is the anime and manga of Super, is so.

No, that's not what continuity is. Continuity implies a single, non-contradictory chain or web of events. If there are two different versions of one event, you can deduce one specific canon that incorperates both, but you cannot meld them into one continuity (unless you're personally re-writing it, in which case, all bets are off).

"something that is the same or similar in two or more things and provides a connection between them"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/continuity

Your fan fiction statements definitely have not been in continuity with what is officially authority...That is with Toriyama and Webster.

I notice you conveniently ignored the third definition, which, when applied alongside the second, provides actual context to what we're talking about. Did you expect me not to click the link? Are you really willing to be dishonest for something as ridiculous as this?

[Miracles]

No, that's not what continuity is. Continuity implies a single, non-contradictory chain or web of events. If there are two different versions of one event, you can deduce one specific canon that incorperates both, but you cannot meld them into one continuity (unless you're personally re-writing it, in which case, all bets are off).

"something that is the same or similar in two or more things and provides a connection between them"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/continuity

Your fan fiction statements definitely have not been in continuity with what is officially authority...That is with Toriyama and Webster.

I notice you conveniently ignored the third definition, which, when applied alongside the second, provides actual context to what we're talking about. Did you expect me not to click the link? Are you really willing to be dishonest for something as ridiculous as this?

Terrible attempt by you to try and label by questioning me as such, knowing you were proven wrong.
The third definition had no barring on what we are discussing, we are not talking about a story making or not making sense.
The link proves my point that manga and anime connect, you were wrong using a fan made definition.

[Grimlock]

The link proves my point that manga and anime connect

Of Dragon Ball Super? If so, then no. There are too many differences by now, Toei's version cannot be on the same continuity as Toyotaro's version. They even contradict each other. They have their own logic, their own rules.

You cannot consider Goku vs Hit fight of both anime and manga simultaneously. Choose just one and go for it (although when you choose one, you are automatically choosing the whole continuity, as Goku vs Hit fight in those medias follow their own logic previous and posteriorly established by their own storyline. Of course, "Goku vs Hit" is an example).

[Miracles]

The link proves my point that manga and anime connect

Of Dragon Ball Super? If so, then no. You are wrong. There are too many differences by now, Toei's version cannot be on the same continuity as Toyotaro's version. They even contradict each other. They have their own logic, their own rules.

You cannot consider Goku vs Hit fight of both anime and manga simultaneously. Choose just one and go for it (although when you choose one, you are automatically choosing the whole continuity, as Goku vs Hit fight in those medias follow their own logic previous and posteriorly established by their own storyline. Of course, "Goku vs Hit" is an example).

Show me where the anime did something that the manga said couldn't happen?
You are confusing revelation, supplementation and complimentary with contradictions.
The anime and manga interpret each other.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Terrible attempt by you to try and label by questioning me as such, knowing you were proven wrong.
The third definition had no barring on what we are discussing, we are not talking about a story making or not making sense.

Actually, that is exactly what we're talking about when we're assigning continuities, which you'd know if you've payed even a little attention to this conversation. I don't care if you're not invested, but please don't waste my time if you're not going to pay attention anyway.

The link proves my point that manga and anime connect

*Sigh* I've told you time after time after time now that no one is even arguing that! And you're here, trying to tell me what this is and isn't about? Is it even worth talking to you? Because you don't seem to be caught up on this whole conversation.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The link proves my point that manga and anime connect

Of Dragon Ball Super? If so, then no. You are wrong. There are too many differences by now, Toei's version cannot be on the same continuity as Toyotaro's version. They even contradict each other. They have their own logic, their own rules.

You cannot consider Goku vs Hit fight of both anime and manga simultaneously. Choose just one and go for it (although when you choose one, you are automatically choosing the whole continuity, as Goku vs Hit fight in those medias follow their own logic previous and posteriorly established by their own storyline. Of course, "Goku vs Hit" is an example).

Show me where the anime did something that the manga said couldn't happen?
You are confusing revelation, supplementation and complimentary with contradictions.
The anime and manga interpret each other.

Totally irrelevant to what we're discussing.

[Miracles]

Terrible attempt by you to try and label by questioning me as such, knowing you were proven wrong.
The third definition had no barring on what we are discussing, we are not talking about a story making or not making sense.

Actually, that is exactly what we're talking about when we're assigning continuities, which you'd know if you've payed even a little attention to this conversation. I don't care if you're not invested, but please don't waste my time if you're not going to pay attention anyway.

The link proves my point that manga and anime connect

*Sigh* I've told you time after time after time now that no one is even arguing that! And you're here, trying to tell me what this is and isn't about? Is it even worth talking to you? Because you don't seem to be caught up on this whole conversation.

I placed an official definition of continuity, which was always in line with my arguments, debunking your fan fiction of continuity.
There is nothing more to discuss. I will go with what is official instead of what you want/wish it to be.
I will take my leave since you can not submit to authority, Websters nor Toriyama's.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Terrible attempt by you to try and label by questioning me as such, knowing you were proven wrong.
The third definition had no barring on what we are discussing, we are not talking about a story making or not making sense.

Actually, that is exactly what we're talking about when we're assigning continuities, which you'd know if you've payed even a little attention to this conversation. I don't care if you're not invested, but please don't waste my time if you're not going to pay attention anyway.

The link proves my point that manga and anime connect

*Sigh* I've told you time after time after time now that no one is even arguing that! And you're here, trying to tell me what this is and isn't about? Is it even worth talking to you? Because you don't seem to be caught up on this whole conversation.

I placed an official definition of continuity, which was always in line with my arguments, debunking your fan fiction of continuity.
There is nothing more to discuss. I will go with what is official instead of what you want/wish it to be.
I will take my leave since you can not submit to authority, Websters nor Toriyama.

No, what you did is link a page with 3 definitions, selected one that didn't fit with our discussion on its own, and even selectively interpreted that to make yourself seem correct. Then when I pointed you to another, more applicable definition, you answered by saying that it didn't matter.

[Grimlock]

Show me where the anime did something that the manga said couldn't happen?
You are confusing revelation, supplementation and complimentary with contradictions.
The anime and manga interpret each other.

The anime has never done anything that the manga said it couldn't happen. And that's obviously because even though the manga is adapted from a Toriyama's script, the manga is Toyotaro's vision on the matter, nothing more or less than that.

I'm not confusing anything. You are the one making mistakes here, as already pointed out by other members that are discussing with you. And if they interpret each other, shouldn't Toyotaro have drawn Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan: Kaio-Ken too in Goku's fight against Hit? Or shouldn't Toei have done Super Saiyan God?

[Patrolman Jaco]

No, because that was the point, for people to remember his one-off past transformation. And you didn't answer why no pants have ever been ripped off in battle, manga and anime alike, if Toei is so lazy because they stretched a Capsule Corporation sweater. If you don't want to buy it, don't ask the price.

You don't need to copy and paste composition from the original anime, people would have remembered SS Grade 3 just fine without that. Lame excuse. Trunks was wearing Capsule Corporation clothing in the gif I posted and that didn't mean much, so yeah still not buying it.

Oh, so you're using lazy Toei to prove that Toei isn't lazy? In the same movie Broli grew in size in his non-Freezarubber clothes? Ok. I guess 3rd Grade Trunks skipped leg day, as well?

Dude really? Broly was shirtless and wears baggy pants besides some of his clothing did get destroyed when he transformed.

That's how you are making excuses.

Still have no idea what you're on about.

Except it doesn't look anything like when Piccolo died against Nappa

You're joking right?

I'm not speculating that Toei spent more time animating that whole sequence when they could've cut corners doing something else than Toyotarou takes to trace whichever panel or pose.

Most of the sequences in question are stills or have very minimal animation, also Toei clearly does cut corners and you're still throwing out speculation.

No, because Trunks never did so when he was around unlike Vegeeta, which was one of his iconic scenes against Cell. What Trunks did back then was use his 3rd Grade, which is what they reanimated. See the pattern? They are purposefully referencing the same scenes, they aren't trying to fool people into thinking they aren't the same. They hardly ever animate attacks and transformations the same way, so when they do, it's because it's a conscious decision.

And? Like I said before you don't need to copy and paste composition and entire sequences from the original anime to reference SS Grade 3 and Final Flash. You can't rag on Toyotaro and then give Toei a free pass for doing the same thing, copying from previous material.

[Ajay]

It's all getting a little bit hostile in here. Let's try and calm it down a bit, please!

Quick reminder of this particular line from the rules:

Excessive (particularly one-line-quote-and-response) back-and-forths are frowned upon.

It's all good to debate away, but try to formulate your thoughts into proper paragraphs. Line by line responses tend not to hold as much substance. Thanks, all.

[brett wheeler]

the manga and anime are two different continuums yes, but that does not mean two different story's. Toriyama writes the outline toie does the script for the anime gives it to him he approves and or disprove of stuff gives it back they change it to something he approves of and then makes the anime based off that script. Toyataro gets the outline draws the manga and again toriyama approves or disapproves of different things until they get the final outcome then we get the chapter, what this means is that both events can happen atleast as far as toriyama believes he believes ssbkk is completely possible and gokut turning ssg is completely possible there both feats goku is capable of but one showed one side of it the other shows the other side, does that make one wrong and one right no it just means they both are believable and both are possible to toriyama and his outline.

We all agree on this already.

less people agree with his than you think. According to my statement in both manga and anime goku should be able to go ssg toie just hasnt used it yet while toyataro has, most people agree to a variation of my statement and believe that goku cant use transformations shown in both manga and anime some believing ssbkk isnt canon and ssg isnt cannon while the truth is they both are cannon.

[Marlowe89]

Just out of curiosity, Miracles, if you're convinced that the Super anime and manga exist in the same continuity then what exactly do you think happened in Goku's fight against Hit? Did Goku go SSG or did he go SSB x Kaioken?

[ekrolo2]

Man, if something as simple as the continuity of the Super anime & manga is causing such debate, I can't imagine what you guys would do if you had to make sense of DC or Marvel continuity

[alakazam^]

You don't need to copy and paste composition from the original anime, people would have remembered SS Grade 3 just fine without that. Lame excuse. Trunks was wearing Capsule Corporation clothing in the gif I posted and that didn't mean much, so yeah still not buying it.

Dude really? Broly was shirtless and wears baggy pants besides some of his clothing did get destroyed when he transformed.

Still have no idea what you're on about.

You're joking right?

Most of the sequences in question are stills or have very minimal animation, also Toei clearly does cut corners and you're still throwing out speculation.

And? Like I said before you don't need to copy and paste composition and entire sequences from the original anime to reference SS Grade 3 and Final Flash. You can't rag on Toyotaro and then give Toei a free pass for doing the same thing, copying from previous material.

I was gonna respond throrougly to all of this but, honestly, I don't care that much and I'm getting pretty much done with this conversation as it is.

What I will say, however, is that I'm not ragging on Toyotarou. I don't care if either him or Toei copy stuff from the manga/anime because I like their homages and there's nothing wrong with them doing it since they are conscious choices. I don't know if Toyotarou relies much on copying stuff or not but, from Toei's side, it's obvious those two instances served the purpose of having people realize they were reanimating those particular scene compositions. How many times have they relied on it? How many times have they repeated attack/transformation animations? Yeah, they're not lazy and this is such a non-argument that I'm surprised you expect people to take you seriously after you say something like that. There's no discussion possible with sentences like that.

Lastly, Bloomer created battle wear for Vegeeta so she could have created stretchy sweaters as well and the transformation makes your hair grow. There.