Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
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- Jinzoningen MULE
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
In this comic, Bra always wins. She's more of a Mary Sue than Mary Sue was.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
That's not what Mary Sue means. Being a Mary Sue basically means being perfect. Bra is just very powerful and talented at fighting, which is predicable being the offspring of Vegetto. Besides that she is full of flaws, especially personality-wise.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:In this comic, Bra always wins. She's more of a Mary Sue than Mary Sue was.
The term Mary Sue is completely overused and improperly used nowadays. Nowadays, if a character stands out in one aspect (for example, strength), we immediately have people proclaiming "mary sue" left and right.
- Fionordequester
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Before I say anything else, I DO agree with her not being a Mary Sue. THAT said however, I do think she is used in a way that's detrimental to the comic. Salagir clearly likes her, and as a result, she's given too much focus; your average reader, therefore, tries to describe her as a Mary Sue since that's the only term they know for describing such a character.rereboy wrote:That's not what Mary Sue means. Being a Mary Sue basically means being perfect. Bra is just very powerful and talented at fighting, which is predicable being the offspring of Vegetto. Besides that she is full of flaws, especially personality-wise.
The term Mary Sue is completely overused and improperly used nowadays. Nowadays, if a character stands out in one aspect (for example, strength), we immediately have people proclaiming "mary sue" left and right.
In reality though, I believe that she is more of a "Creator's Pet". Yes, a creator's pet; what is that? Well, according to TV Tropes...
There are certain characters who receive a lot of hatred from the fanbase for one reason or another. Most often, when their creators pick up on the hate, they have a couple options. They can ignore it, tweak the character into a more likable version, or even play it for laughs. Sometimes, however, the creator(s) have become so attached to this character for whatever reason, whether because they see something of themselves in the character or the character reminds them of someone they were close to or the character represents something they admire, that they decide to increasingly focus on him, magnifying the importance of his role, and having the other characters talk about how awesome he is, in painful ignorance of — or sometimes in spite of — the fans' obvious hatred.
That's the Creator's Pet in a nutshell.
The main characteristic of the Creator's Pet is that the writers' focus on him is detrimental to the show. It's not that the parts featuring this character necessarily suck more than the rest, but that so much effort is being directed to him that it detracts from the quality of the series as a whole. It's as if the writers think that there's nothing more important than browbeating the viewers into falling in love with this one character. And it never works. In fact, shilling a character excessively can cause other characters to be drawn into the hatred.
The Creator's Pet is a combination of being:
1) Hated by fans (The Scrappy) [definitely applies to Bra]
2) Loved (or worshipped) by the writers (Creator's Favorite) [Salagir seems to like her a lot, given all the fancy techniques she gets, the way the camera frames her body at points (no, don't worry, I'm not still on that midriff thing), and us getting two Bra-centric chapters back-to-back]
3) Put into big scenes for no reason (Character Focus) [Arguable; but she was involved in stopping Zen Buu from getting Broly. Plus, she was the ONLY saiyan who managed to defend herself from Zen Buu's outburst all by herself, without needing to huddle together with the other main characters. Also is tasked with saving Universe 19, and shows up in Bardock's visions. Make of that what you will.]
4) Talked up by the other characters (Character Shilling) [BIG TIME!!]
Unless it meets all of these criteria, it doesn't fit.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
That's hardly more accurate. Instead of trying to always use those kind of overreaching archetype, it's frankly better to describe the actual problem. Don't like her power? Call her overpowered. She has too much focus in the comic? Call her overused. Other people might not agree that the character is overpowered or overused, but at least that way we are discussing precisely the issue, not some overreaching archetype that people find it fashionable to use nowadays and that won't fit the character perfectly.
- MozillaVulpix
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
If Bra really was a Mary Sue, the characters would be constantly praising her for being overconfident and not assessing the situation. And while maybe the plot indirectly rewards her for that, the characters don't. You don't see them constantly saying "oh, wow, Bra is so cool, look how strong she is!" every time she does anything.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Not to mini-mod where it's nowhere near my place, but are we really going to do this Bra thing again? Could we please move on?
- Jinzoningen MULE
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
I was using the term very loosely, halfway joking, even. Nevertheless, you're right, she does have character flaws. Although none of them have been a detriment as far back as I can remember.rereboy wrote:That's not what Mary Sue means. Being a Mary Sue basically means being perfect. Bra is just very powerful and talented at fighting, which is predicable being the offspring of Vegetto. Besides that she is full of flaws, especially personality-wise.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:In this comic, Bra always wins. She's more of a Mary Sue than Mary Sue was.
The term Mary Sue is completely overused and improperly used nowadays. Nowadays, if a character stands out in one aspect (for example, strength), we immediately have people proclaiming "mary sue" left and right.
She's the most original character in the story, why shouldn't we talk about her?Anime Kitten wrote:Not to mini-mod where it's nowhere near my place, but are we really going to do this Bra thing again? Could we please move on?
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- Fionordequester
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
What part do you disagree with?rereboy wrote:That's hardly more accurate.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Going by the 4 aspects you mentioned, any character that is good at something and that the fans don't really like will more or less fit the criteria. You see, if the character is good at something, it can be argued that the author must love the character because of that... And if the character is good at something it only makes sense for other characters to comment on that... And if the character is good at something it only makes sense for the character to be where he or she can be useful, thus having focus because he or she is good at it...Fionordequester wrote:What part do you disagree with?rereboy wrote:That's hardly more accurate.
Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
You seem to do this in most threads you post in.Anime Kitten wrote:Not to mini-mod where it's nowhere near my place

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
You can talk about her, but this Mary Sue discussion was already had. I just don't want to read it again, but if people want to talk about it, that's fine. I can just skip those posts.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:She's the most original character in the story, why shouldn't we talk about her?

You must have left for too long, as I stopped a long time ago. Also, was the eye-roll really necessary?ryou766 wrote:You seem to do this in most threads you post in.

Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
That can actually get you classified as a Sue. TV tropes has a list of the different Sue types.MozillaVulpix wrote:If Bra really was a Mary Sue, the characters would be constantly praising her for being overconfident and not assessing the situation. And while maybe the plot indirectly rewards her for that, the characters don't. You don't see them constantly saying "oh, wow, Bra is so cool, look how strong she is!" every time she does anything.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
- Jinzoningen MULE
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
For anyone who's curious.HeroR wrote:That can actually get you classified as a Sue. TV tropes has a list of the different Sue types.MozillaVulpix wrote:If Bra really was a Mary Sue, the characters would be constantly praising her for being overconfident and not assessing the situation. And while maybe the plot indirectly rewards her for that, the characters don't. You don't see them constantly saying "oh, wow, Bra is so cool, look how strong she is!" every time she does anything.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
You don't have to take them as authority, but all of these can and are referred to colloquially as Sue's. I doubt there's any more to be added to this discussion.
Edit: Fixed the link.
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- Fionordequester
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
So what your saying is that it IS accurate, but you don't believe that those criteria are good ones for judging how well a character is used. In other words, "yeah she fits those, but it's justified in context of the story, so there's no problem". Is that right?rereboy wrote:Going by the 4 aspects you mentioned, any character that is good at something and that the fans don't really like will more or less fit the criteria. You see, if the character is good at something, it can be argued that the author must love the character because of that... And if the character is good at something it only makes sense for other characters to comment on that... And if the character is good at something it only makes sense for the character to be where he or she can be useful, thus having focus because he or she is good at it...
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
- BlazingBarrrager
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Am I the only one who has noticed the color of Bra's eyes as a Super Saiyan is off?
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
TV Tropes?Jinzoningen MULE wrote:For anyone who's curious.HeroR wrote:That can actually get you classified as a Sue. TV tropes has a list of the different Sue types.MozillaVulpix wrote:If Bra really was a Mary Sue, the characters would be constantly praising her for being overconfident and not assessing the situation. And while maybe the plot indirectly rewards her for that, the characters don't. You don't see them constantly saying "oh, wow, Bra is so cool, look how strong she is!" every time she does anything.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
- Jinzoningen MULE
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
I just said not to take it as an absolute. I really don't appreciate being misrepresented.RandomGuy96 wrote:TV Tropes?Jinzoningen MULE wrote:For anyone who's curious.HeroR wrote:
That can actually get you classified as a Sue. TV tropes has a list of the different Sue types.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Last edited by Jinzoningen MULE on Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Jinzoningen MULE
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Yes, but I figure it's a stylistic choice.BlazingBarrrager wrote:Am I the only one who has noticed the color of Bra's eyes as a Super Saiyan is off?
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- BlazingBarrrager
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
Eh...probably. Still I love how the aura is more designed with the original manga in mind.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:Yes, but I figure it's a stylistic choice.BlazingBarrrager wrote:Am I the only one who has noticed the color of Bra's eyes as a Super Saiyan is off?
- Jinzoningen MULE
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse
I'm loving this whole batch of colored pages. I wish I were more invested in the actual narrative.BlazingBarrrager wrote:Eh...probably. Still I love how the aura is more designed with the original manga in mind.Jinzoningen MULE wrote:Yes, but I figure it's a stylistic choice.BlazingBarrrager wrote:Am I the only one who has noticed the color of Bra's eyes as a Super Saiyan is off?
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