Was Ultimate Gohan stronger than or equal to Super Buu (Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and Piccolo Absorbed)?

[Steven Bloodriver]

I think that the two were almost even until Ultimate Gohan was affected by Super Buu (Super Gotenks 3 and Piccolo Katanaji Absorbed) playing mind games on him.

[Tyro]

Once Boo absorbed Gotenks and Piccolo he dominated Gohan from the get-go. Off the top of my head I don't remember Gohan getting a hit on him, and it took absolutely all of his strength just to break free from Boo's Galactic Donuts.

[Rubens]

While SSj3 Gotenks eventually got the upper hand against Boo, Gohan completly overwhelmed the latter which puts him ahead of Gotenks. In the manga both Goten and Trunks admit that Gohan is slightly stronger.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[DanielSSJ]

Gotenks-Boo held a huge advantage over Gohan from the minute they started fighting. Gohan was fighting a defensive game from minute one. Gotenks-Boo's mind games were him just him being a dick.

[MaxZ]

I think the power gap between Buutenks and Gohan was relatively small, compared to some of the other power gaps in fights we've seen.

Without Piccolo's intelligence, Gohan might have had a chance in that fight.

[Wizard Sesame]

Gohan was owned from the drop in the manga. The anime extended it out, and by doing so, made it appear that Gohan actually stood a chance.

If I had to put it into numbers, I'd say he was at least 25% or somewhere around that magnitude stronger than Gohan.

[dragon ball truth]

If gotenks Piccolo buu was stronger than gohan, by any or a lot; he wouldnt have had to dodge gohans hits, thats the big ignorance they rectified with the anime the anime shows that gohan had to have been atleast close to his power, buu needed both of the parts he absorbed to beat gohan, beating someone doesnt necessarily mean youre stronger than them; cell destroyed trunks with lesser power and that was confirmed trunks's power level was higher than cells, vegeta was beating up buu pretty bad with lesser power until buu got mad; so yeah the mind of Piccolo was what made buu seem 'stronger'.

[Rubens]

Wait, I completly misread the post. Sorry for that. Anyway, recapping according to my interpretation:
- SSj3 Gotenks is slightly stronger than Boo;
- Gohan is stronger than Gotenks and Boo;
I would say that Boo combined with Gotenks &Piccolo almost doubles (well, maybe somewhere between 50% to 2x) Gohan's power. At least in the manga, Gohan is completly helpless; in the anime filler they fight evenly at first, then Boo suddenly overwhelms Gohan to follow the manga, which confuses things a little bit.

[Tyro]

Wait, I completly misread the post. Sorry for that. Anyway, recapping according to my interpretation:
- SSj3 Gotenks is slightly stronger than Boo;
- Gohan is stronger than Gotenks and Boo;
I would say that Boo combined with Gotenks &Piccolo almost doubles (well, maybe somewhere between 50% to 2x) Gohan's power. At least in the manga, Gohan is completly helpless; in the anime filler they fight evenly at first, then Boo suddenly overwhelms Gohan to follow the manga, which confuses things a little bit.

I wouldn't say Boo's power after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo is twice that of Gohan's. Assuming that Boo's absorption ability works more like addition than multiplication in terms of how it affects his battle power, Gotenks Boo should himself be about twice as strong as his regular form (given that SS3 Gotenks appears to be only a tad stronger than Boo, plus Piccolo's negligible power). So Gohan should fall somewhere between them, where he can kick Boo's ass at one end but gets his own ass kicked equally as hard on the other. So maybe ~50% stronger than regular Boo?

[ekrolo2]

I wouldn't say Boo's power after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo is twice that of Gohan's. Assuming that Boo's absorption ability works more like addition than multiplication in terms of how it affects his battle power, Gotenks Boo should himself be about twice as strong as his regular form (given that SS3 Gotenks appears to be only a tad stronger than Boo, plus Piccolo's negligible power). So Gohan should fall somewhere between them, where he can kick Boo's ass at one end but gets his own ass kicked equally as hard on the other. So maybe ~50% stronger than regular Boo?

25-50% stronger than Super Boo is about the range where Gohan should fall, if he was anything closer, Bootenks wouldn't have been able to stomp him as easily as he does.

This is how I think it works:

Gotenks - 250 bill (Super Saiyan 3)
Gohan - 300 bill (Ultimate)
Super Boo - 235 bill (regular)
- 487 bill (Bootenks)
- 232 bill (Booccolo)
- 537 bill (Boohan)

[Rubens]

Wait, I completly misread the post. Sorry for that. Anyway, recapping according to my interpretation:
- SSj3 Gotenks is slightly stronger than Boo;
- Gohan is stronger than Gotenks and Boo;
I would say that Boo combined with Gotenks &Piccolo almost doubles (well, maybe somewhere between 50% to 2x) Gohan's power. At least in the manga, Gohan is completly helpless; in the anime filler they fight evenly at first, then Boo suddenly overwhelms Gohan to follow the manga, which confuses things a little bit.

I wouldn't say Boo's power after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo is twice that of Gohan's. Assuming that Boo's absorption ability works more like addition than multiplication in terms of how it affects his battle power, Gotenks Boo should himself be about twice as strong as his regular form (given that SS3 Gotenks appears to be only a tad stronger than Boo, plus Piccolo's negligible power). So Gohan should fall somewhere between them, where he can kick Boo's ass at one end but gets his own ass kicked equally as hard on the other. So maybe ~50% stronger than regular Boo?

Exactly, I didn't say it doubled and I do agree that his absortions work as an addition. Alhough, personally I place Gohan about 30% stronger than normal Boo.

[dragon ball truth]

yeah, so buu absorbed Piccolo for no reason, check

buu had to dodge all of gohans attacks, check

buu had to play mind games with gohan to distract his fighting, check

buu had to use energy attacks to injure gohan, check

all in all, id say if buu was anything more than 3% stronger than gohan; that strength isnt energy level based, its more of a mix of buu and gotenks and topped off with mostly the new mind he had

not to mention at the end of the day buu was still fighting a person who hadnt trained in 7 years, so that even further closed any said gap he has to the person that just wants to make a fake gap

once again you leapfrogged my original comment on how trunks was crushed by cell with a lesser power confirmed, and yes that was much easier than buu beating gohan; buu never actually even said he was stronger than gohan, neither did any of the onlookers

[Darkprince410]

Buu was shown blocking and taking Gohan's blows just as easily and as readily as he could block them, even catching Gohan's initial kicks with his hands without showing any degree of difficulty in doing so. The fact that he chose to dodge some attacks rather than block them doesn't really mean anything.

Likewise, he didn't have to use ki attacks against Gohan at all, as we saw his physical attacks against Gohan doing considerable damage to him. It'd be one thing if his blows did no appreciable damage, but given that the few physical attacks we saw Buu inflict on Gohan still managed to send him flying and cause considerable damage to him discredits your notion he "had" to use ki attacks. Lastly, what mind games? In the manga, there was essentially nothing mind game wise, certainly nowhere near what the anime depicted.

As for no one saying that Buu was stronger than Gohan, Buu himself said so, specifically in regards to absorbing Gotenks (not even accounting for Piccolo's brains in the mix).

Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”

Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

He sensed Gohan, sensed Gohan would be stronger than him, and decided that absorbing Gotenks would make him stronger than Gohan.

As for Cell fighting Trunks, Cell never actually landed any attacks on Trunks during their time fighting when Trunks was "more powerful" than him. All that happened was Cell kept dodging Trunks' blows because Trunks was too slow to hit him, but he never landed an actual attack on Trunks at all to show what his strength would do in comparison to Trunks' higher battle power. So I don't see at all this "crushed by Cell" stance you're taking, as Cell did no such thing.

[dragon ball truth]

Buu was shown blocking and taking Gohan's blows just as easily and as readily as he could block them, even catching Gohan's initial kicks with his hands without showing any degree of difficulty in doing so. The fact that he chose to dodge some attacks rather than block them doesn't really mean anything.

Likewise, he didn't have to use ki attacks against Gohan at all, as we saw his physical attacks against Gohan doing considerable damage to him. It'd be one thing if his blows did no appreciable damage, but given that the few physical attacks we saw Buu inflict on Gohan still managed to send him flying and cause considerable damage to him discredits your notion he "had" to use ki attacks. Lastly, what mind games? In the manga, there was essentially nothing mind game wise, certainly nowhere near what the anime depicted.

As for no one saying that Buu was stronger than Gohan, Buu himself said so, specifically in regards to absorbing Gotenks (not even accounting for Piccolo's brains in the mix).

Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”

Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

He sensed Gohan, sensed Gohan would be stronger than him, and decided that absorbing Gotenks would make him stronger than Gohan.

As for Cell fighting Trunks, Cell never actually landed any attacks on Trunks during their time fighting when Trunks was "more powerful" than him. All that happened was Cell kept dodging Trunks' blows because Trunks was too slow to hit him, but he never landed an actual attack on Trunks at all to show what his strength would do in comparison to Trunks' higher battle power. So I don't see at all this "crushed by Cell" stance you're taking, as Cell did no such thing.

Unfortunately the hole in your argument is in the manga and anime the caught attack happened only once, big whoop; vegeta and goku were catching one anothers attacks in an earlier fight when they were the same strength; so thats a non factor the rest was dodging.

Secondly, quit using the 'it wasnt in the manga' excuse; the manga isnt the all infallible version, it was all written in a hurry meant to be corrected and that by the anime and the manga and anime shows buu dodging all the attacks gohan threw at him, also it shows several energy attacks including several gohan hadnt seen another advantage not related to power advantage given to buu.

All i see in your manga translation is that buu didnt need Piccolo, but if that be true then what really was the point in absorbing Piccolo? If buu was even 10% stronger than gohan with just power, picollos help to gohan would have been of no use; they both would have been done in, buu definitely could beat goku and gohan combined separate, but not necessarily because of a strength difference its the whole package of what he absorbed.

You obviously didnt see the trunks vs cell fight, so your a bad person to try to argue with.

All in all the plot and layout of the story makes no sense if buu was just all out stronger than gohan, why would they have gotenks to power up all the way to ssj3 AND absorb Piccolo to show a straight power difference? It makes no sense, it would be different if maybe gotenks powered up to only ssj resulting in an even fight, but then buu harnessed gotenks's ssj3 power to show a completely different level of power; but for gotenks to have been at ssj3 from the start shows that he needed every scrap of what he could get to get even a little over gohan, all in all it doesnt matter anyway even if buu was stronger buu was obviously scared to harm dende with knowing about gohan anyway with the whole hidden power deal and all.

Buu fought gohan like floyd mayweather fights distance fighting, while he charged full in at goku.

[Darkprince410]

Unfortunately the hole in your argument is in the manga and anime the caught attack happened only once, big whoop; vegeta and goku were catching one anothers attacks in an earlier fight when they were the same strength; so thats a non factor the rest was dodging.

Secondly, quit using the 'it wasnt in the manga' excuse; the manga isnt the all infallible version, it was all written in a hurry meant to be corrected and that by the anime and the manga and anime shows buu dodging all the attacks gohan threw at him, also it shows several energy attacks including several gohan hadnt seen another advantage not related to power advantage given to buu.

All i see in your manga translation is that buu didnt need Piccolo, but if that be true then what really was the point in absorbing Piccolo? If buu was even 10% stronger than gohan with just power, picollos help to gohan would have been of no use; they both would have been done in, buu definitely could beat goku and gohan combined separate, but not necessarily because of a strength difference its the whole package of what he absorbed.

You obviously didnt see the trunks vs cell fight, so your a bad person to try to argue with.

All in all the plot and layout of the story makes no sense if buu was just all out stronger than gohan, why would they have gotenks to power up all the way to ssj3 AND absorb Piccolo to show a straight power difference? It makes no sense, it would be different if maybe gotenks powered up to only ssj resulting in an even fight, but then buu harnessed gotenks's ssj3 power to show a completely different level of power; but for gotenks to have been at ssj3 from the start shows that he needed every scrap of what he could get to get even a little over gohan, all in all it doesnt matter anyway even if buu was stronger buu was obviously scared to harm dende with knowing about gohan anyway with the whole hidden power deal and all.

Buu fought gohan like floyd mayweather fights distance fighting, while he charged full in at goku.

There is absolutely no evidence saying that the manga was written in a hurry and was meant to be corrected. If there was, your argument to the factor might hold weight, but since there isn't, then you saying that is baseless. On this board, the manga takes precedence when it comes to Dragon Ball/Z, with filler being predominantly contradictory in nature and staving off a great deal from what Toriyama intended

I did see the Trunks vs. Cell fight as it was depicted in the original manga, and Cell landed no hits. From the moment that the two stopped stalling for time so that Kuririn could get Vegeta to safety (it was made clear that Trunks was taking those hits intentionally, Cell landed zero hits on Trunks, so no, Cell didn't "crush" Trunks at all. Trunks lost the fight solely because he was too slow to land a hit on him in his 3rd Grade state, and then Cell pointed out how much of a novice he was as a result. No actual damage done or anything like that, just a realization that his strength meant nothing if he was too slow to touch him.

With Gohan and Gotenks Buu however, it was a very different story. Buu was dominating him in both strength and speed, blocking and evading hits, deflecting ki blasts, and inflicting considerable damage against Gohan with every attack he was landing (physical and ki attacks). If the difference in power was minimal, there'd be evidence to that, but Gohan not being able to land a single hit in on Buu (dodging doesn't suddenly mean they're close together power wise) while Buu was repeatedly, with no sign of difficulty, points to the gap being rather sizable between the two.

As for why he absorbed Piccolo...why not? By his own admission, his plan to topple Gohan involved absorbing Gotenks, so absorbing Piccolo was just a happy bonus. It wasn't an absorption out of necessity.

[Rubens]

As for why he absorbed Piccolo...why not? By his own admission, his plan to topple Gohan involved absorbing Gotenks, so absorbing Piccolo was just a happy bonus. It wasn't an absorption out of necessity.

Actually, he absorbed Piccolo for his intelligence.
[spoiler]

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P6.1
Context: Boo thinking to himself, before he absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo
Boo: “…If I just add that squirt’s power and…that ‘Piccolo’ guy’s brains, then…”

Chapter: 500 (DBZ 306), P1.2-3
Boo: "I'm going to hurry this fight along, if you don't mind. It seems that the transformation time of this "Super Gotenks" guy I've absorbed is quite limited."
Gohan: “That’s a pretty sober decision for you to make…Seems that you were correct to absorb Piccolo too…”

[/spoiler]

[Darkprince410]

As for why he absorbed Piccolo...why not? By his own admission, his plan to topple Gohan involved absorbing Gotenks, so absorbing Piccolo was just a happy bonus. It wasn't an absorption out of necessity.

Actually, he absorbed Piccolo for his intelligence.
[spoiler]

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P6.1
Context: Boo thinking to himself, before he absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo
Boo: “…If I just add that squirt’s power and…that ‘Piccolo’ guy’s brains, then…”

Chapter: 500 (DBZ 306), P1.2-3
Boo: "I'm going to hurry this fight along, if you don't mind. It seems that the transformation time of this "Super Gotenks" guy I've absorbed is quite limited."
Gohan: “That’s a pretty sober decision for you to make…Seems that you were correct to absorb Piccolo too…”

[/spoiler]

He did, but when he talked about his actual plans for toppling Gohan, it was just absorbing Gotenks. He didn't act like it was a necessity to his plans, but just an extra incentive.

Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

By his own admission, absorbing Gotenks would have been enough in his mind. It's just there was nothing to lose by absorbing Piccolo as well, as having his brains would make him just that much mightier than before.