"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Baggie_Saiyan]

With the episode 62 preview and spoilers for episode 62 and 63, how is all of this stuff going to happen in such a short time?

I am not going to be happy if Piccolo suggests Mafuba and then says he can't do it himself and that is why they go Roshi. Piccolo should be able to do.

Finally, Gohan fans do not get excited.

My guess is Trunks sends them back before the eyecatch in 62. They arrive on the battlefield sometime post eye catch in 63 or even the end.

But your right there is no way Goku would be able to learn the Mafuba that fast unless he just can for sake of convenience. Or Maybe RoSaT? And your not going to be happy cuz I think that's why Goku goes to Roshi.

And I am sure people are just excited they get to see Gohan again in this arc...

[ArchedThunder]

[
Well, the whole reason Gowasu was watching the tournament on GodTube was because Beerus, Whis, and Goku visited them in the first place.

I don't remember thst being said at all, are you sure?

[Baggie_Saiyan]

[
Well, the whole reason Gowasu was watching the tournament on GodTube was because Beerus, Whis, and Goku visited them in the first place.

I don't remember thst being said at all, are you sure?

It wasn't said Gowasau was just like I'm watching GodTube care to join me. I mean a tournament between two universe can't be that common so would make sense for people to watch it.

[TheMikado]

Doesn't seem to have happened like this, but I guess it works as an explanation... but it's still a plot-hole, since it was never explained.

Something not being explained doesn't mean it's a plot hole, it just means it's unexplained. They tell us that in Black's history he fought Goku and we already saw present Zamasu learn about the Super Dragon Balls and Super Saiyan Blue from Godtube, so we might not have a direct explanation but we do have pieces that can form an explanation.

Pulling stuff out of nowhere to make a story work is NOT the job of the audience. You're making a scenario that was never stated to align plot points that don't connect. This far in Super the scenario you are proposing DOES NOT EXIST.

It would be like Cell somehow being in the main timeline without explanation and someone generating random theories on how he got there. Luckily Z was written with substantial more care and at a higher literary level when things like that are explained.

[ekrolo2]

So, has anyone figured out what's going on with Blacks timeline? Cause in it, Goku goes to fight Zamasu anyway even though there was no Trunks to warn them about Black hence eliminating the reason for Goku going there. The way Black talks about it too is that he's from the main timeline as his ring protects him from getting erased out of existence.

[Lord Beerus]

So, has anyone figured out what's going on with Blacks timeline? Cause in it, Goku goes to fight Zamasu anyway even though there was no Trunks to warn them about Black hence eliminating the reason for Goku going there. The way Black talks about it too is that he's from the main timeline as his ring protects him from getting erased out of existence.

I think it's all a stable time loop combined with a butterfly effect of Future Trunks travelling back in time because of Black fucking up his timeline.

[Draconic]

Doesn't seem to have happened like this, but I guess it works as an explanation... but it's still a plot-hole, since it was never explained.

Something not being explained doesn't mean it's a plot hole, it just means it's unexplained. They tell us that in Black's history he fought Goku and we already saw present Zamasu learn about the Super Dragon Balls and Super Saiyan Blue from Godtube, so we might not have a direct explanation but we do have pieces that can form an explanation.

Pulling stuff out of nowhere to make a story work is NOT the job of the audience. You're making a scenario that was never stated to align plot points that don't connect. This far in Super the scenario you are proposing DOES NOT EXIST.

It would be like Cell somehow being in the main timeline without explanation and someone generating random theories on how he got there. Luckily Z was written with substantial more care and at a higher literary level when things like that are explained.

You mean like when Piccolo explained that Trunks was trying to come back in time and tell everybody he found a way to defeat the Androids, even though Cell said he didn't touch anything on the Time Machine, yet ended up one year before Trunks' first trip? That higher literary level? Need I remind you that if you only take in consideration what is in the series, Cell's story makes no sense and light is never shed on it?

[HeroR]

Copying from another forum:

For those wonder where Black came from, it seems he came from a timeline where Beerus didn't kill Present Zamasu.

Goku meeting and fighting Zamasu to find out if he's Black still happens, since we see a flashback of Goku and Zamasu's sparring match, which is the same from Episode 53. Zamasu even confirmed that Goku crushed him in a fight. However, because of the nature of the Time Rings, the events that created Black already happened. Beerus killing the Present Zamasu that we know may have the destroyed the timeline that Black came from, but didn't effect Black since he had the Time Ring.

[TheMikado]

Something not being explained doesn't mean it's a plot hole, it just means it's unexplained. They tell us that in Black's history he fought Goku and we already saw present Zamasu learn about the Super Dragon Balls and Super Saiyan Blue from Godtube, so we might not have a direct explanation but we do have pieces that can form an explanation.

Pulling stuff out of nowhere to make a story work is NOT the job of the audience. You're making a scenario that was never stated to align plot points that don't connect. This far in Super the scenario you are proposing DOES NOT EXIST.

It would be like Cell somehow being in the main timeline without explanation and someone generating random theories on how he got there. Luckily Z was written with substantial more care and at a higher literary level when things like that are explained.

You mean like when Piccolo explained that Trunks was trying to come back in time and tell everybody he found a way to defeat the Androids, even though Cell said he didn't touch anything on the Time Machine, yet ended up one year before Trunks' first trip? That higher literary level? Need I remind you that if you only take in consideration what is in the series, Cell's story makes no sense and light is never shed on it?

I'm not sure how that doesn't make sense? This isn't an inconsistency we are talking about, it's a plot hole. The story as a WHOLE as told could not unfold the way described unless some significant events took place to make it so. To make this Super thing work you have to literally say entirely different events occurred and took place such as some catalyst to bring Goku in contact with Zamasu physically. There's little evidence to support either Zamasu specifically came to Earth of another universe looking for Goku to fight after watching him on GodTube, nor that Beerus randomly took Goku on a tour of the multiverse
Kaioshin. The Cell thing is an inconsistency which can be explained away by saying Cell accidentally hit something in the time machine and didn't realize it. Entire times, events, and places, don't have to be arranged to make it fit.

Using a nitpick molehill to justify a mountain isn't really practical.

[TheMikado]

So, has anyone figured out what's going on with Blacks timeline? Cause in it, Goku goes to fight Zamasu anyway even though there was no Trunks to warn them about Black hence eliminating the reason for Goku going there. The way Black talks about it too is that he's from the main timeline as his ring protects him from getting erased out of existence.

I think it's all a stable time loop combined with a butterfly effect of Future Trunks travelling back in time because of Black fucking up his timeline.

Not sure what that means

[Draconic]

Pulling stuff out of nowhere to make a story work is NOT the job of the audience. You're making a scenario that was never stated to align plot points that don't connect. This far in Super the scenario you are proposing DOES NOT EXIST.

It would be like Cell somehow being in the main timeline without explanation and someone generating random theories on how he got there. Luckily Z was written with substantial more care and at a higher literary level when things like that are explained.

You mean like when Piccolo explained that Trunks was trying to come back in time and tell everybody he found a way to defeat the Androids, even though Cell said he didn't touch anything on the Time Machine, yet ended up one year before Trunks' first trip? That higher literary level? Need I remind you that if you only take in consideration what is in the series, Cell's story makes no sense and light is never shed on it?

I'm not sure how that doesn't make sense? This isn't an inconsistency we are talking about, it's a plot hole. The story as a WHOLE as told could not unfold the way described unless some significant events took place to make it so. To make this Super thing work you have to literally say entirely different events occurred and took place such as some catalyst to bring Goku in contact with Zamasu physically. There's little evidence to support either Zamasu specifically came to Earth of another universe looking for Goku to fight after watching him on GodTube, nor that Beerus randomly took Goku on a tour of the multiverse
Kaioshin. The Cell thing is an inconsistency which can be explained away by saying Cell accidentally hit something in the time machine and didn't realize it. Entire times, events, and places, don't have to be arranged to make it fit.

Using a nitpick molehill to justify a mountain isn't really practical.

But I thought pulling stuff out of nowhere to make the story work is not the job of the audience?

And in what way can't the story work? Goku came in contact with Zamasu, someway. That's how time works. Events will still happen. Trunks coming back in time just hurried things up, just like with Babidi and Dabura's arrival. Everything happened faster in the timeline we are following, because of Time Travel (you know, the butterfly effect). I don't get why we need to know every single detail of a story, as long as the story makes sense. We never had explanations for every little detail before in Dragon Ball and hell, most media doesn't just spoon feed information, since writers trust the audience is not stupid. If the story didn't make sense, well, then there would be a problem, but right now it's simple:
Zamasu faught Goku, which pushed him to become evil, which pushed him to steal Goku's body. He recruited Future Zamasu and devastated Earth, which made Trunks go back in time, which made ANOTHER Zamasu fight Goku, but that Zamasu got killed by Beerus, so that thread is closed.
Saying it makes no sense how events can happen entirely different between timelines is downright nonsensical, since we know since the Android arc that they can. Or do you believe the fact that Androids 16,19 and 20 appearing even though they never did originally is a plot hole too?

[TheMikado]

You mean like when Piccolo explained that Trunks was trying to come back in time and tell everybody he found a way to defeat the Androids, even though Cell said he didn't touch anything on the Time Machine, yet ended up one year before Trunks' first trip? That higher literary level? Need I remind you that if you only take in consideration what is in the series, Cell's story makes no sense and light is never shed on it?

I'm not sure how that doesn't make sense? This isn't an inconsistency we are talking about, it's a plot hole. The story as a WHOLE as told could not unfold the way described unless some significant events took place to make it so. To make this Super thing work you have to literally say entirely different events occurred and took place such as some catalyst to bring Goku in contact with Zamasu physically. There's little evidence to support either Zamasu specifically came to Earth of another universe looking for Goku to fight after watching him on GodTube, nor that Beerus randomly took Goku on a tour of the multiverse
Kaioshin. The Cell thing is an inconsistency which can be explained away by saying Cell accidentally hit something in the time machine and didn't realize it. Entire times, events, and places, don't have to be arranged to make it fit.

Using a nitpick molehill to justify a mountain isn't really practical.

But I thought pulling stuff out of nowhere to make the story work is not the job of the audience?

And in what way can't the story work? Goku came in contact with Zamasu, someway. That's how time works. Events will still happen. Trunks coming back in time just hurried things up, just like with Babidi and Dabura's arrival. Everything happened faster in the timeline we are following, because of Time Travel (you know, the butterfly effect). I don't get why we need to know every single detail of a story, as long as the story makes sense. We never had explanations for every little detail before in Dragon Ball and hell, most media doesn't just spoon feed information, since writers trust the audience is not stupid. If the story didn't make sense, well, then there would be a problem, but right now it's simple:
Zamasu faught Goku, which pushed him to become evil, which pushed him to steal Goku's body. He recruited Future Zamasu and devastated Earth, which made Trunks go back in time, which made ANOTHER Zamasu fight Goku, but that Zamasu got killed by Beerus, so that thread is closed.
Saying it makes no sense how events can happen entirely different between timelines is downright nonsensical, since we know since the Android arc that they can. Or do you believe the fact that Androids 16,19 and 20 appearing even though they never did originally is a plot hole too?

Ok not following you, it's not the audiences job. I'm explaining the difference between and inconsistency and a plot hole, not that the audience should insert something to make lines fit. It should just be taken at face value and a writer can easily plug that if they want to.

Again I'm not following. Let's say that in order for Cell to be created we know an event like Frieda coming to earth has to take place. Yet Cell suddenly comes from a timeline where Frieza never came to earth. If that happened without explanation we would all say the same thing because we know how certain events trigger other events. Like you said that's how time works. So if the preceding events didn't occur we wouldn't expect the following to occur either. If they do we would expect an explanation why.

[Draconic]

But Goku meeting Zamasu can happen in different ways without Black having to come to Earth. He already hates humans, so that's that taken care of. How the two met in the original timeline simply doesn't matter. What's important is that they did and triggered some events that I will not repeat again. I don't see where the plot-hole is. A plot-hole is something that can't possibly happen because it breaks the internal logic of the universe. How is Zamasu meeting Goku a problem, when there are countless ways they could eventually meet? A plot hole would be if Zamasu never met or heard about Goku, but still ended up wishing to get his body.

[jjgp1112]

Copying from another forum:

For those wonder where Black came from, it seems he came from a timeline where Beerus didn't kill Present Zamasu.

Goku meeting and fighting Zamasu to find out if he's Black still happens, since we see a flashback of Goku and Zamasu's sparring match, which is the same from Episode 53. Zamasu even confirmed that Goku crushed him in a fight. However, because of the nature of the Time Rings, the events that created Black already happened. Beerus killing the Present Zamasu that we know may have the destroyed the timeline that Black came from, but didn't effect Black since he had the Time Ring.

Exactly. I think Whish reversing time also throws things out of whack, because otherwise the future of the main timeline is Zamasu killing Gowasu and then jumping to an already existing timeline. My second theory: the "fool" Gowasu was talking about who created a fourth time ring is Whis when he reversed time to stop Frieza from destroying the Earth!

Edit: After thinking about it, that second theory is wrong.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

But Goku meeting Zamasu can happen in different ways without Black having to come to Earth. He already hates humans, so that's that taken care of. How the two met in the original timeline simply doesn't matter. What's important is that they did and triggered some events that I will not repeat again. I don't see where the plot-hole is. A plot-hole is something that can't possibly happen because it breaks the internal logic of the universe. How is Zamasu meeting Goku a problem, when there are countless ways they could eventually meet? A plot hole would be if Zamasu never met or heard about Goku, but still ended up wishing to get his body.

The way I've seen it is Goku and Zamasu would eventually meet but Trunks coming back just triggered that event faster. The Manga went the extra mile to quote on quote "fix" this but the anime just left the details ambiguous, just the fact that the anime has acknowledged that Zamasu was on that path regardless of Trunks coming back is good enough.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Sorry for the double post but this title legit?

第066話「合体！！ベジータの誇りと悟空の怒りとトランクスの願い」!! ?

Was leaked on 2ch apparently.

So want that to be fake.

Edit-oh okay the source is Gojitaaf
. So answer is likely yes fake. Phew

[Draconic]

But Goku meeting Zamasu can happen in different ways without Black having to come to Earth. He already hates humans, so that's that taken care of. How the two met in the original timeline simply doesn't matter. What's important is that they did and triggered some events that I will not repeat again. I don't see where the plot-hole is. A plot-hole is something that can't possibly happen because it breaks the internal logic of the universe. How is Zamasu meeting Goku a problem, when there are countless ways they could eventually meet? A plot hole would be if Zamasu never met or heard about Goku, but still ended up wishing to get his body.

The way I've seen it is Goku and Zamasu would eventually meet but Trunks coming back just triggered that event faster. The Manga went the extra mile to quote on quote "fix" this but the anime just left the details ambiguous, just the fact that the anime has acknowledged that Zamasu was on that path regardless of Trunks coming back is good enough.

Pretty much exactly that. That's how time works in Dragon Ball, events will happen no matter what, but when you use Time Travel, the circumstances in which these events take place change. There is no plot-hole or inconsistency. It is confusing, I will say that, but not that much when you are actually following the show and not just going "the writers are idiots" every other post.

Edit: what is that title saying?

[TheMikado]

But Goku meeting Zamasu can happen in different ways without Black having to come to Earth. He already hates humans, so that's that taken care of. How the two met in the original timeline simply doesn't matter. What's important is that they did and triggered some events that I will not repeat again. I don't see where the plot-hole is. A plot-hole is something that can't possibly happen because it breaks the internal logic of the universe. How is Zamasu meeting Goku a problem, when there are countless ways they could eventually meet? A plot hole would be if Zamasu never met or heard about Goku, but still ended up wishing to get his body.

The way I've seen it is Goku and Zamasu would eventually meet but Trunks coming back just triggered that event faster. The Manga went the extra mile to quote on quote "fix" this but the anime just left the details ambiguous, just the fact that the anime has acknowledged that Zamasu was on that path regardless of Trunks coming back is good enough.

I don't have a problem with it being an eventuality. My point is that Its linear since there is a specific set of events that caused this confrontation in the first place in some alternate future. It's just like the power level argument having a since of consistency goes a long way but it doesn't matter, the manga already has an out and that's the important thing.

[Lord Beerus]

So, has anyone figured out what's going on with Blacks timeline? Cause in it, Goku goes to fight Zamasu anyway even though there was no Trunks to warn them about Black hence eliminating the reason for Goku going there. The way Black talks about it too is that he's from the main timeline as his ring protects him from getting erased out of existence.

I think it's all a stable time loop combined with a butterfly effect of Future Trunks travelling back in time because of Black fucking up his timeline.

Not sure what that means

Basically, I believe that Future Trunks travelling back in time because of Black wrecking him timeline had an effect on the time loop, and as time loops are constantly resetting when a certain condition is met, I think when Future Trunks travelled back in time, it inexplicably reset the conditions of the fourth timeline to no include Future Trunks. More specifically, his actions of informing Goku about Black in that time. But then jjgp1112 raised up the good point of how Whis rewinding time to before Present Zamasu killed Present Gowasu may have thrown an almighty spanner in the function of the time loop. I think Whis' time rewind of that moment created a butterfly effect that lead a grandfather paradox in the fourth timeline and resulted in that timeline being altered to a degree where Future Trunks does not warn Goku about Black.

Where's Dr Who when you need him?

[Cetra]

Edit: what is that title saying?

That Goku, Vegeta and Trunks are gonna fuse and it mentions some of their characteristics.

I think Whis' time rewind of that moment created a butterfly effect that lead a grandfather paradox in the fourth timeline and resulted in that timeline being altered to a degree where Future Trunks does not warn Goku about Black.

But apparently Whis' own crap ability does not affect anything. Maybe I do misunderstand your thought though.