Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[Jinzoningen MULE]

In this comic, Bra always wins. She's more of a Mary Sue than Mary Sue was.

[rereboy]

In this comic, Bra always wins. She's more of a Mary Sue than Mary Sue was.

That's not what Mary Sue means. Being a Mary Sue basically means being perfect. Bra is just very powerful and talented at fighting, which is predicable being the offspring of Vegetto. Besides that she is full of flaws, especially personality-wise.

The term Mary Sue is completely overused and improperly used nowadays. Nowadays, if a character stands out in one aspect (for example, strength), we immediately have people proclaiming "mary sue" left and right.

[Fionordequester]

That's not what Mary Sue means. Being a Mary Sue basically means being perfect. Bra is just very powerful and talented at fighting, which is predicable being the offspring of Vegetto. Besides that she is full of flaws, especially personality-wise.

The term Mary Sue is completely overused and improperly used nowadays. Nowadays, if a character stands out in one aspect (for example, strength), we immediately have people proclaiming "mary sue" left and right.

Before I say anything else, I DO agree with her not being a Mary Sue. THAT said however, I do think she is used in a way that's detrimental to the comic. Salagir clearly likes her, and as a result, she's given too much focus; your average reader, therefore, tries to describe her as a Mary Sue since that's the only term they know for describing such a character.

In reality though, I believe that she is more of a "Creator's Pet". Yes, a creator's pet; what is that? Well, according to TV Tropes...

There are certain characters who receive a lot of hatred from the fanbase for one reason or another. Most often, when their creators pick up on the hate, they have a couple options. They can ignore it, tweak the character into a more likable version, or even play it for laughs. Sometimes, however, the creator(s) have become so attached to this character for whatever reason, whether because they see something of themselves in the character or the character reminds them of someone they were close to or the character represents something they admire, that they decide to increasingly focus on him, magnifying the importance of his role, and having the other characters talk about how awesome he is, in painful ignorance of — or sometimes in spite of — the fans' obvious hatred.

That's the Creator's Pet in a nutshell.

The main characteristic of the Creator's Pet is that the writers' focus on him is detrimental to the show. It's not that the parts featuring this character necessarily suck more than the rest, but that so much effort is being directed to him that it detracts from the quality of the series as a whole. It's as if the writers think that there's nothing more important than browbeating the viewers into falling in love with this one character. And it never works. In fact, shilling a character excessively can cause other characters to be drawn into the hatred.

The Creator's Pet is a combination of being:

1) Hated by fans (The Scrappy) [definitely applies to Bra]

2) Loved (or worshipped) by the writers (Creator's Favorite) [Salagir seems to like her a lot, given all the fancy techniques she gets, the way the camera frames her body at points (no, don't worry, I'm not still on that midriff thing), and us getting two Bra-centric chapters back-to-back]

3) Put into big scenes for no reason (Character Focus) [Arguable; but she was involved in stopping Zen Buu from getting Broly. Plus, she was the ONLY saiyan who managed to defend herself from Zen Buu's outburst all by herself, without needing to huddle together with the other main characters. Also is tasked with saving Universe 19, and shows up in Bardock's visions. Make of that what you will.]

4) Talked up by the other characters (Character Shilling) [BIG TIME!!]

Unless it meets all of these criteria, it doesn't fit.

[rereboy]

That's hardly more accurate. Instead of trying to always use those kind of overreaching archetype, it's frankly better to describe the actual problem. Don't like her power? Call her overpowered. She has too much focus in the comic? Call her overused. Other people might not agree that the character is overpowered or overused, but at least that way we are discussing precisely the issue, not some overreaching archetype that people find it fashionable to use nowadays and that won't fit the character perfectly.

[MozillaVulpix]

If Bra really was a Mary Sue, the characters would be constantly praising her for being overconfident and not assessing the situation. And while maybe the plot indirectly rewards her for that, the characters don't. You don't see them constantly saying "oh, wow, Bra is so cool, look how strong she is!" every time she does anything.

[Anime Kitten]

Not to mini-mod where it's nowhere near my place, but are we really going to do this Bra thing again? Could we please move on?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

In this comic, Bra always wins. She's more of a Mary Sue than Mary Sue was.

That's not what Mary Sue means. Being a Mary Sue basically means being perfect. Bra is just very powerful and talented at fighting, which is predicable being the offspring of Vegetto. Besides that she is full of flaws, especially personality-wise.

The term Mary Sue is completely overused and improperly used nowadays. Nowadays, if a character stands out in one aspect (for example, strength), we immediately have people proclaiming "mary sue" left and right.

I was using the term very loosely, halfway joking, even. Nevertheless, you're right, she does have character flaws. Although none of them have been a detriment as far back as I can remember.

Not to mini-mod where it's nowhere near my place, but are we really going to do this Bra thing again? Could we please move on?

She's the most original character in the story, why shouldn't we talk about her?

[Fionordequester]

That's hardly more accurate.

What part do you disagree with?

[rereboy]

That's hardly more accurate.

What part do you disagree with?

Going by the 4 aspects you mentioned, any character that is good at something and that the fans don't really like will more or less fit the criteria. You see, if the character is good at something, it can be argued that the author must love the character because of that... And if the character is good at something it only makes sense for other characters to comment on that... And if the character is good at something it only makes sense for the character to be where he or she can be useful, thus having focus because he or she is good at it...

[ryou766]

Not to mini-mod where it's nowhere near my place

You seem to do this in most threads you post in.

[Anime Kitten]

She's the most original character in the story, why shouldn't we talk about her?

You can talk about her, but this Mary Sue discussion was already had. I just don't want to read it again, but if people want to talk about it, that's fine. I can just skip those posts.

You seem to do this in most threads you post in.

You must have left for too long, as I stopped a long time ago. Also, was the eye-roll really necessary?

[HeroR]

If Bra really was a Mary Sue, the characters would be constantly praising her for being overconfident and not assessing the situation. And while maybe the plot indirectly rewards her for that, the characters don't. You don't see them constantly saying "oh, wow, Bra is so cool, look how strong she is!" every time she does anything.

That can actually get you classified as a Sue. TV tropes has a list of the different Sue types.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

If Bra really was a Mary Sue, the characters would be constantly praising her for being overconfident and not assessing the situation. And while maybe the plot indirectly rewards her for that, the characters don't. You don't see them constantly saying "oh, wow, Bra is so cool, look how strong she is!" every time she does anything.

That can actually get you classified as a Sue. TV tropes has a list of the different Sue types.

For anyone who's curious.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

You don't have to take them as authority, but all of these can and are referred to colloquially as Sue's. I doubt there's any more to be added to this discussion.

Edit: Fixed the link.

[Fionordequester]

Going by the 4 aspects you mentioned, any character that is good at something and that the fans don't really like will more or less fit the criteria. You see, if the character is good at something, it can be argued that the author must love the character because of that... And if the character is good at something it only makes sense for other characters to comment on that... And if the character is good at something it only makes sense for the character to be where he or she can be useful, thus having focus because he or she is good at it...

So what your saying is that it IS accurate, but you don't believe that those criteria are good ones for judging how well a character is used. In other words, "yeah she fits those, but it's justified in context of the story, so there's no problem". Is that right?

[BlazingBarrrager]

Am I the only one who has noticed the color of Bra's eyes as a Super Saiyan is off?

[RandomGuy96]

If Bra really was a Mary Sue, the characters would be constantly praising her for being overconfident and not assessing the situation. And while maybe the plot indirectly rewards her for that, the characters don't. You don't see them constantly saying "oh, wow, Bra is so cool, look how strong she is!" every time she does anything.

That can actually get you classified as a Sue. TV tropes has a list of the different Sue types.

For anyone who's curious.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

TV Tropes?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

That can actually get you classified as a Sue. TV tropes has a list of the different Sue types.

For anyone who's curious.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

TV Tropes?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

I just said not to take it as an absolute. I really don't appreciate being misrepresented.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Am I the only one who has noticed the color of Bra's eyes as a Super Saiyan is off?

Yes, but I figure it's a stylistic choice.

[BlazingBarrrager]

Am I the only one who has noticed the color of Bra's eyes as a Super Saiyan is off?

Yes, but I figure it's a stylistic choice.

Eh...probably. Still I love how the aura is more designed with the original manga in mind.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Am I the only one who has noticed the color of Bra's eyes as a Super Saiyan is off?

Yes, but I figure it's a stylistic choice.

Eh...probably. Still I love how the aura is more designed with the original manga in mind.

I'm loving this whole batch of colored pages. I wish I were more invested in the actual narrative.