Goku and Piccolo during the Raditz fight

[Jamstar]

When Goku and Piccolo fought Raditz I noticed something strange or odd. I remeber back during the tournament, 5 years earlier I believe, Piccolo and Goku fought each other. And they both seemed a lot stronger than they did when fighting Raditz. Piccolo and Goku used so many different techniques. Yet, during the Raditz fight Piccolo used nothing from back then, and Goku didn't either. Why is that? Does everyone understand what I am trying to convey? I think maybe after the tournament Goku relaxed and got married and didn't train at all, so he could have slacked off. But for Piccolo, I don't believe he would have done that.

[Mr.Piccolo]

When Goku and Piccolo fought Raditz I noticed something strange or odd. I remeber back during the tournament, 5 years earlier I believe, Piccolo and Goku fought each other. And they both seemed a lot stronger than they did when fighting Raditz. Piccolo and Goku used so many different techniques. Yet, during the Raditz fight Piccolo used nothing from back then, and Goku didn't either. Why is that? Does everyone understand what I am trying to convey? I think maybe after the tournament Goku relaxed and got married and didn't train at all, so he could have slacked off. But for Piccolo, I don't believe he would have done that.

I think I know what you mean but you need to understand that the Piccolo Goku fight was the last major fight of DragonBall so a lot was going down then. Other thing you can look at is the fact that this was the first time Goku and Piccolo fought in five years. Five years is a pretty long time and even though they were stronger, I'd expect them to be weaker. Actually, I'd expect Piccolo to be stronger because he had nothing better to do than train while Goku was living the family life. Always gotta keep the green man down..
-Rick

[Conan the SSJ]

I like to think that the reason Goku and Piccolo held back on techniques was that with Piccolo, he was reserving energy to use his Makankosappo, which at this time he could only fire twice and he'd already wasted energy earlier in hitting Raditz with the Destructive Wave. He probably saw his new attack as their only hope of actually killing Raditz, but still wanted to fight him head-on with Goku to attempt to inflict damage and distract him for the attack. As for Goku, I think he was pretty much distracted with his own emotional problems, in the manner that his son was kidnapped by his long-lost only brother. I recall that he did fire a full-powered Kamehame-Ha attack, which barely resulted in Raditz's hand tingling. The Super Kamehame-Ha seems to be Goku's best energy attack at this point anyhow and he figured he should go all out on Raditz while he was still at maximum power, so he didn't pussyfoot around with other maneuvers. There's also the issue that Goku was focusing on grabbing Raditz's tail, which he was looking out for during the battle, but didn't get the opportunity of doing till after Raditz dodged Piccolo's first cannon attack.

That's all what I pretty much go with, I do agree that it sucks we don't see a battle on par to the 23rd Budokai finale, but I thought it was still a pretty good fight with some interesting surprises (Piccolo's first Makankosappo failing, Gohan's incredible hidden power moment when he goes after Raditz, Goku choosing to sacrifice himself rather than risk Raditz cutting his own tail off, etc.). It really is sort of a shame though, that some of the techniques we see in the Goku/Piccolo battle, we never see again in the series or movies. Anyone else remember Goku shooting the Kamehame-Ha with his feet?

[mAcChaos]

They probably didn't bother because none of it would've worked against Raditz.

[Jamstar]

I like to think that the reason Goku and Piccolo held back on techniques was that with Piccolo, he was reserving energy to use his Makankosappo, which at this time he could only fire twice and he'd already wasted energy earlier in hitting Raditz with the Destructive Wave. He probably saw his new attack as their only hope of actually killing Raditz, but still wanted to fight him head-on with Goku to attempt to inflict damage and distract him for the attack. As for Goku, I think he was pretty much distracted with his own emotional problems, in the manner that his son was kidnapped by his long-lost only brother. I recall that he did fire a full-powered Kamehame-Ha attack, which barely resulted in Raditz's hand tingling. The Super Kamehame-Ha seems to be Goku's best energy attack at this point anyhow and he figured he should go all out on Raditz while he was still at maximum power, so he didn't pussyfoot around with other maneuvers. There's also the issue that Goku was focusing on grabbing Raditz's tail, which he was looking out for during the battle, but didn't get the opportunity of doing till after Raditz dodged Piccolo's first cannon attack.

That's all what I pretty much go with, I do agree that it sucks we don't see a battle on par to the 23rd Budokai finale, but I thought it was still a pretty good fight with some interesting surprises (Piccolo's first Makankosappo failing, Gohan's incredible hidden power moment when he goes after Raditz, Goku choosing to sacrifice himself rather than risk Raditz cutting his own tail off, etc.). It really is sort of a shame though, that some of the techniques we see in the Goku/Piccolo battle, we never see again in the series or movies. Anyone else remember Goku shooting the Kamehame-Ha with his feet?

Why didn't Goku try the Super Kamehame-Ha on Raditz? Also, why isn't that move ever used period after the tournament?

[Duo]

I like to think that the reason Goku and Piccolo held back on techniques was that with Piccolo, he was reserving energy to use his Makankosappo, which at this time he could only fire twice and he'd already wasted energy earlier in hitting Raditz with the Destructive Wave. He probably saw his new attack as their only hope of actually killing Raditz, but still wanted to fight him head-on with Goku to attempt to inflict damage and distract him for the attack. As for Goku, I think he was pretty much distracted with his own emotional problems, in the manner that his son was kidnapped by his long-lost only brother. I recall that he did fire a full-powered Kamehame-Ha attack, which barely resulted in Raditz's hand tingling. The Super Kamehame-Ha seems to be Goku's best energy attack at this point anyhow and he figured he should go all out on Raditz while he was still at maximum power, so he didn't pussyfoot around with other maneuvers. There's also the issue that Goku was focusing on grabbing Raditz's tail, which he was looking out for during the battle, but didn't get the opportunity of doing till after Raditz dodged Piccolo's first cannon attack.

That's all what I pretty much go with, I do agree that it sucks we don't see a battle on par to the 23rd Budokai finale, but I thought it was still a pretty good fight with some interesting surprises (Piccolo's first Makankosappo failing, Gohan's incredible hidden power moment when he goes after Raditz, Goku choosing to sacrifice himself rather than risk Raditz cutting his own tail off, etc.). It really is sort of a shame though, that some of the techniques we see in the Goku/Piccolo battle, we never see again in the series or movies. Anyone else remember Goku shooting the Kamehame-Ha with his feet?

Why didn't Goku try the Super Kamehame-Ha on Raditz? Also, why isn't that move ever used period after the tournament?

It kind've is, but without being declared verbally. This is how it is with many techniques, but we're just used to Tenshinhan screaming everything before using it.

Before Goku's usage of the "Super Kamehameha" against Piccolo, you'll notice that most Kamehameha's didn't have a long charging period before it. The "Super" was built up much longer than any before it, so you could say that any Kamehameha that has a long build-up before it can be considered a Super Kamehameha, but without being clarified as such verbally.

Anyway, Raditz was so absurdly stronger than before that he just made them look like wussies, nothing more to it. Kinda like how Super Vegeta seemed amazing at first only to be obsolete with a few chapters.

[Rocketman]

Because the Piccolo fight was in a tournament. Piccolo respected the rules (kinda), since he acknowledged his defeat after being knocked out of the ring.

You can be flashy in a tournament. Be flashy in a real battle and get your ass killed.

[mAcChaos]

Yeah, it was more of a "street fight" with Raditz.

[Conan the SSJ]

Because the Piccolo fight was in a tournament. Piccolo respected the rules (kinda), since he acknowledged his defeat after being knocked out of the ring.

You can be flashy in a tournament. Be flashy in a real battle and get your ass killed.

What I found interesting while watching that battle was while Piccolo was a giant, he touched the outside of the ring at one point (an umbrella-table or something, I think it was). In a way, he technically lost the battle long before Goku mastered bukujutsu and head-butted his ass outwards. I forget which episode it is, but I know it happens. However, the battle itself does take a lot of liberties with the rules, like Piccolo threatening the crowd, actually trying to kill Goku, Kami interfering for a brief moment (where subsequently Goku gives Piccolo a free full-force punch to his face), among some other things. Sorry if I'm getting a bit off-topic, just found that fight to be very interesting rules-wise.

[Tyro]

That reminded me of something. Goku at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai used Muten Roshi's glasses to stop the effects of Tenshinhan's Taio-ken. He should have been warned or made to lose because of cheating because he used something else besides his body and what came with it to fight. Much like Kinto'un at the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai.

[Conan the SSJ]

That reminded me of something. Goku at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai used Muten Roshi's glasses to stop the effects of Tenshinhan's Taio-ken. He should have been warned or made to lose because of cheating because he used something else besides his body and what came with it to fight. Much like Kinto'un at the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai.

I think with Kinto'un, they ruled out elimination because it was a natural part of the atmosphere or something like that. Kinda like, if you're jumping through the air at a high rate like Goku and Namu end up doing and pass through clouds, that shouldn't eliminate you. I think that's what the judges saw in the Kinto'un, though it's definitely considered Goku got off on a technicality, because he's prohibited from using the cloud to escape being thrown out again. As for the glasses, didn't see that DB episode, so I don't know what's up there.

[Mr.Piccolo]

That reminded me of something. Goku at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai used Muten Roshi's glasses to stop the effects of Tenshinhan's Taio-ken. He should have been warned or made to lose because of cheating because he used something else besides his body and what came with it to fight. Much like Kinto'un at the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai.

Haha, doesn't the announcer call that 'a dirty trick' or something (the taio-ken)?
I guess with the fighters we know, the tenkaichi budokai had a lot of first so rules were bent and made mid-match.
-Rick

[zoiozazu]

When Goku and Piccolo fought Raditz I noticed something strange or odd. I remeber back during the tournament, 5 years earlier I believe, Piccolo and Goku fought each other. And they both seemed a lot stronger than they did when fighting Raditz. Piccolo and Goku used so many different techniques. Yet, during the Raditz fight Piccolo used nothing from back then, and Goku didn't either. Why is that? Does everyone understand what I am trying to convey? I think maybe after the tournament Goku relaxed and got married and didn't train at all, so he could have slacked off. But for Piccolo, I don't believe he would have done that.

Wrong. Goku probably trained 'all the time', because he knew the menace the Piccolo represented, and that he would search revenge again.

[Tyro]

As for the glasses, didn't see that DB episode, so I don't know what's up there.

In the manga they say that it's just against the rules to use anything besides your body (or what comes in it, in Giran's case). And they referred to Kinto'un as a "tool." And allowed the use of it once because it was a "magical cloud."

As for the glasses episode. I'll link you to a video clip of it. Sorry, but the only version I could find was in a language I don't understand. It's around the 4 minute mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV7TlaKG ... ed&search=

[Mystic Jack]

The way I see it, Piccolo did have some technique's in mind for Raditz when he first met him. But er... after that whole "energy blast fired at Raditz with having little to no effect on him" incident I'd say a lot of those ideas would have to be sacrificed.

As for Goku, I believe all he really wanted to do was get his son back and (in typical Goku fashion) let Raditz go to let him start a new life. He was probably still in disbelief of what a threat Raditz was.

[Drabaz]

I think Goku just had his mind set on the tail thing. So he didn't want to waste too much energy on flashy things that may not work.

What I found interesting while watching that battle was while Piccolo was a giant, he touched the outside of the ring at one point (an umbrella-table or something, I think it was). In a way, he technically lost the battle long before Goku mastered bukujutsu and head-butted his ass outwards.

I think Goku just wanted to prove to himself that he could beat him. Nobody was really concerned about the tournament while Goku headbutted him out of the ring. It was Goku who was like, "Did I knock him out?"

[Pieter]

Because the Piccolo fight was in a tournament. Piccolo respected the rules (kinda), since he acknowledged his defeat after being knocked out of the ring.

You can be flashy in a tournament. Be flashy in a real battle and get your ass killed.

What I found interesting while watching that battle was while Piccolo was a giant, he touched the outside of the ring at one point (an umbrella-table or something, I think it was). In a way, he technically lost the battle long before Goku mastered bukujutsu and head-butted his ass outwards. I forget which episode it is, but I know it happens. However, the battle itself does take a lot of liberties with the rules, like Piccolo threatening the crowd, actually trying to kill Goku, Kami interfering for a brief moment (where subsequently Goku gives Piccolo a free full-force punch to his face), among some other things. Sorry if I'm getting a bit off-topic, just found that fight to be very interesting rules-wise.

He touched it? However wasn't he mostly still standing inside the ring? I think that's what matters most.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

They probably didn't bother because none of it would've worked against Raditz.

That's my belief, too.

I mean, they're not idiots, they could BOTH sense his power, not to mention Radditz had barely but to display a fraction of his power to both of them (when he first met Piccolo and Piccolo's blast did nothing, and when he crippled Gokou on Kame-Sen'nin's island by kneeing him in the gut). I mean yeah, Piccolo's always used his brain as it is and probably got the picture right off that none of the flashy techniques he used on Gokou were gonna make a difference versus this guy, and it'd only expend energy. However, using minimal energy and biding time for an opening to do the Makankosappo was a better bet because that one MIGHT succeed if his plan were carried out right. Notice how he did the same thing against Nappa, as far as coming up with a strategy for victory rather than rushing in and using a bunch of flashy techniques. That's just how Piccolo operates.

Gokou, I'm not so sure. Other than the fact that at that point he didn't have all too many super special awesome techniques, I mean, at least not in the way Piccolo did. Kamehame Ha was his (and always remained) his staple and strongest technique in pinches like that, and considering that barely grazed him, what else COULD he do? I mean Gokou's not particularly smart but don't count him out to not realize when he's outmatched. Hence him even teaming up with Piccolo in the first place. So in the short time before Piccolo revealed his plan to Gokou, he didn't have much time to whip out anything more spectacular than his strongest-at-the-time technique as it was (keep in mind Gokou wasn't even able to FLY by this point to the extent he could later in the series without expending a ton of energy; late Dragonball and early DBZ was when Bukujutsu was still fairly new), not that anything else he might have had would have done a lot of good against the guy.

Anything where Piccolo is involved is generally going to be about strategy, and even though they lucked out thanks to Gohan in the end, Piccolo's strategy was known by both to have been the only key to victory where a ton of flashy techniques would have done little to no good to stop a foe like Radditz.

Just my take on it, but yeah.