"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Helios518]

If it's Gogeta, then my guess would be 25 minutes to beat down Merged Zamasu and (if they're still going with this plan) use the Mafuba to seal him in the extra 5.

If it's Vegetto, they could have an all out brawl without any worry of a time limit and then proceed to seal him. They could ask to be defused using the Dragon Balls, I guess.

25 minutes to us could be like hours to them, If Toei wanted they could make that fight many episodes.

[Grimlock]

Is this legit?

Of course not. That title belongs to Vegetto's debut episode of Dragon Ball Z.

[ryou766]

If it's Gogeta, then my guess would be 25 minutes to beat down Merged Zamasu and (if they're still going with this plan) use the Mafuba to seal him in the extra 5.

If it's Vegetto, they could have an all out brawl without any worry of a time limit and then proceed to seal him. They could ask to be defused using the Dragon Balls, I guess.

25 minutes to us could be like hours to them, If Toei wanted they could make that fight many episodes.

I miss that about Dragon Ball, so hopefully if they do end up fusing, the fight lasts awhile.

[alakazam^]

So, after that Zamasu is like: "What? A mortal that have surpassed Gods? I can't believe it, if I ever meet him, I'll punish him personally."

This all story is driving me nuts lol

He might have become more invested because he was approached by a Zamasu inside a mortal body, afterall.

Someone brought this up in the other thread, but it might also be possible that Black's origin stems from present Zamasu managing to kill Gowasu, steal the potara earrings / time ring and quickly travelling ahead to one year in the future just before Whis taps his staff on the ground for a temporal do-over. That, at least, makes a little more sense to me than the "additional timeline" explanation because it gives more narrative weight to the Zamasu we've been following throughout Super - it also erases the need to postulate some other weirdly contrived motive that would involve Goku coincidentally sparring with Zamasu in the same period for whatever reason, and it lines up with what Toei appears to be implying in the current episode. There of course would be a time loop in that case, but I enjoy those anyway so I'm fine with that.

I wish this whole thing didn't bother me as much as it does, because I really do think it was otherwise a fantastic episode all around.

That sounds interesting but Whis' power rewinds time so Zamasu wouldn't have time to steal the Potara (why would he do it quickly if he thought he was safe?) and travel into the future (which would still get reversed as well because he'd still be in the same timeline).

Goku and Zamasu meeting some other way is very much possible, it just needs to have happened while the Super Dragon Balls were inactive.

About the manga and it "fixing" stuff, Zamasu still has to meet Goku because I have a hard time believing he'd want to switch bodies with a mortal just because someone told him about Goku, which would bring us to the same situation we have here.

[Marlowe89]

That sounds interesting but Whis' power rewinds time so Zamasu wouldn't have time to steal the Potara (why would he do it quickly if he thought he was safe?) and travel into the future (which would still get reversed as well because he'd still be in the same timeline).

It may be possible that going into the future (or even an alternate timeline, since we know the time rings do that) would leave Zamasu unaffected by Whis' power, but you're right, it's not as neat of a theory as I'd like it to be.

Really, at this point I just want some kind of explanation even if it's one I don't particularly like. The episode certainly didn't do a very good job of clearing everything up.

[fadeddreams5]

So... question: if Zamasu just swapped bodies with Goku, why is Black so strong? Where does his rapidly increasing strength come from? What is SSJR? Why does he have Zamasu's ki? If he has Zamasu's Ki, wouldn't Goku have had his own in Zamasu's body?

[SansrivaaL]

Here I wanted Goku to kill Black for what just happened.... but shit goes down with fusions (if that title turns out to be legit)

[Jinzoningen MULE]

So, has anyone figured out what's going on with Blacks timeline? Cause in it, Goku goes to fight Zamasu anyway even though there was no Trunks to warn them about Black hence eliminating the reason for Goku going there. The way Black talks about it too is that he's from the main timeline as his ring protects him from getting erased out of existence.

Maybe it will be explained, but I'm not counting on it. Let us pray to Lord Toyotaro for answers in these troubled time(line)s!

Here I wanted Goku to kill Black for what just happened.... but shit goes down with fusions (if that title turns out to be legit)

We know it's legitimate, Herms has already acknowledged and translated the titles. Edit: If you're talking about Zamasu, that is. I just remembered that there are other rumors floating around.

[DragonHermit]

If we see a fusion, the question is SSJ Blue Gogeta vs. Whis, or SSJ Blue Vegetto vs. Whis? Does it make a difference?

[SansrivaaL]

So, has anyone figured out what's going on with Blacks timeline? Cause in it, Goku goes to fight Zamasu anyway even though there was no Trunks to warn them about Black hence eliminating the reason for Goku going there. The way Black talks about it too is that he's from the main timeline as his ring protects him from getting erased out of existence.

Maybe it will be explained, but I'm not counting on it. Let us pray to Lord Toyotaro for answers in these troubled time(line)s!

Here I wanted Goku to kill Black for what just happened.... but shit goes down with fusions (if that title turns out to be legit)

We know it's legitimate, Herms has already acknowledged and translated the titles. Edit: If you're talking about Zamasu, that is. I just remembered that there are other rumors floating around.

Oh I see, so its legit, aw man this lowered my hype quite a bit

[sailorspazz]

Someone brought this up in the other thread, but it might also be possible that Black's origin stems from present Zamasu managing to kill Gowasu, steal the potara earrings / time ring and quickly travelling ahead to one year in the future just before Whis taps his staff on the ground for a temporal do-over. That, at least, makes a little more sense to me than the "additional timeline" explanation because it gives more narrative weight to the Zamasu we've been following throughout Super - it also erases the need to postulate some other weirdly contrived motive that would involve Goku coincidentally sparring with Zamasu in the same period for whatever reason, and it lines up with what Toei appears to be implying in the current episode. There of course would be a time loop in that case, but I enjoy those anyway so I'm fine with that.

I wish this whole thing didn't bother me as much as it does, because I really do think it was otherwise a fantastic episode all around.

Yeah...yesterday I was basking in the afterglow of the awesome episode I'd just witnessed...today I'm just wracking my brain for a theory that makes sense!

Even with all the theories about alternate timelines swirling around, I've been on board with Black being the same Zamasu we've been watching throughout Super, and this episode managed to both confirm that he is, yet simultaneously make it impossible for it to be him But yet, he also didn't say he was from a different timeline, and I think that's the sticking point: when Gokuu said that he saw him get killed, Black's explanation for how he avoided that was not "I'm from a different time than yours, so it wouldn't affect me", it was, "I've got the time ring, so...fuck you, it just works!" The point Beerus brought up about a god killing another god changing space-time was taken by many to mean it would kill all versions of that character in all timelines, but I don't think that's what the intention was; they were assuming the Zamasu in the future was the one from our timeline, so Beerus perma-destroying the present one would also take out other iterations of the same Zamasu, no matter which timeline he had traveled to. But the Future Zamasu was fine, because he's from that timeline and not ours, and as far as we know, isn't wearing a time ring (only Black has been shown with it, I believe). Beerus only meant to destroy the Zamasu from the main timeline, but since he got the time ring and became Black, it didn't work (or...Beerus is full of shit, and didn't actually know what he was talking about But Whis, who seems pretty knowledgeable about most things, didn't correct him...)

But there's still the burning question of, how the hell did Zamasu become Black if Beerus prevented him from carrying out his plan? The best guess I have is what has been mentioned by a few people in various threads about this subject of the timeline being somewhat "fluid". There are certain events that may be predestined to happen, so in this case let's assume Zamasu taking over Gokuu's body and becoming Black is one such event. So theoretically if it's supposed to happen, then it already did happen since it's a point that cannot be changed, until something interferes with it. So because he theoretically could've carried out this plan, it's already occurred, even though he was prevented from actually starting it...

I'm still so fucking confused I thought writing it all out would clear everything up and make sense somehow, but it seems the only explanation is that this situation defies logic! Putting two different types of time travel together in the same series is bringing major headaches, and the whole "Black exists because he's supposed to exist" theory might work better if we didn't have to think about alternate timelines... I wish I could get on board with the much simpler theories of another timeline split, but since none of that was brought up in the episode even though they had the opportunity, I just can't accept it as fact. If they meant for it to be a different Zamasu who met Gokuu under different circumstances, I'm sure they would've explained it.

[Roronoa-pt]

With the episode 62 preview and spoilers for episode 62 and 63, how is all of this stuff going to happen in such a short time?

I am not going to be happy if Piccolo suggests Mafuba and then says he can't do it himself and that is why they go Roshi. Piccolo should be able to do.

Finally, Gohan fans do not get excited.

My guess is Trunks sends them back before the eyecatch in 62. They arrive on the battlefield sometime post eye catch in 63 or even the end.

But your right there is no way Goku would be able to learn the Mafuba that fast unless he just can for sake of convenience. Or Maybe RoSaT? And your not going to be happy cuz I think that's why Goku goes to Roshi.

And I am sure people are just excited they get to see Gohan again in this arc...

I don't know how Toei is going to deal with this, since Piccolo was the obvious choice to use or to teach Mafuuba to Goku. My guess is Kamicolo doesn't know how to use Mafuuba. Piccolo Jr knew how to counter the technique but didn't master Mafuuba. Kami mastered Mafuuba. Probably, the knowledge of the technique was somehow lost in the process when Kamicolo was born.
Maybe when Piccolo absorved Kami, he only reached a new whole level of power and didn't get any knowledge from him. Hell, he even didn't recognizes Beerus unlike Dende. Piccolo is nothing like Kami, he's still the same old Piccolo.

Not bringing Ten to the equation makes sense since he never fully mastered the technique.

[Rubens]

I wonder how truthfull this fusions are.

While I'm scrambling my brain over this nonsense, there's something I need to clarify: does the time ring only allows to travel forward into the future, and then return to the previou present time, OR does the time ring alows to freely travel anywhere in time but the Kaioshin are just forbidden to use it to travel to the past? I think it's the first, but the latter would sort of explain how he exchanged bodies with pre-BoG Goku (or did the body swap ocurred at the beginning of this arc? Goku and Piccolo were harvesting lettuces and carrots, were they not...? But that's still past...)...

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I wonder how truthfull this fusions are.

While I'm scrambling my brain over this nonsense, there's something I need to clarify: does the time ring only allows to travel forward into the future, and then return to the previou present time, OR does the time ring alows to freely travel anywhere in time but the Kaioshin are just forbidden to use it to travel to the past? I think it's the first, but the latter would sort of explain how he exchanged bodies with pre-BoG Goku (or did the body swap ocurred at the beginning of this arc? Goku and Piccolo were harvesting lettuces and carrots, were they not...? But that's still past...)...

Yeah the body swap occurred PostU6 arc in a timeline where Trunks didn't come back and talk about Black. As for your other question I am not too sure but I think they're just forbidden to go back.

[alakazam^]

I wonder how truthfull this fusions are.

While I'm scrambling my brain over this nonsense, there's something I need to clarify: does the time ring only allows to travel forward into the future, and then return to the previou present time, OR does the time ring alows to freely travel anywhere in time but the Kaioshin are just forbidden to use it to travel to the past? I think it's the first, but the latter would sort of explain how he exchanged bodies with pre-BoG Goku (or did the body swap ocurred at the beginning of this arc? Goku and Piccolo were harvesting lettuces and carrots, were they not...? But that's still past...)...

Only to the future. That Goku was from a future instance.

[Nejishiki]

It might be a Xeno version of the character, there's a lot of rumors of the 3 fusing but I don't see a point if they got that Mafuba container. I'm looking for Trunks in his new form to beat Black and Zamasu into fusing, then Trunks will get the grounded, Goku and Vegeta will come back with the Mafuba, they'll weaken the fused Zamasu, Goku might through down a Spirit Bomb before sealing with the Mafuba. I just can't see them fusing, let alone a 3 way fusion after just giving Trunks a new form. If they fuse they'll never be able to top the power scale in this arc. I'm looking for Future Trunks to die honestly, since Mai is his only reason to live at this point in time.

Future Mai is not Future Trunks' sole motive for living. He finds strength and value into rebuilding his fallen world. The current arc has reinforced his philosophies throughout its story. To suggest he can only find success through death is disturbing, for lack of a better word.

[Yamcha upset fan]

ginyu frog is still alive in this time line,,,,



just saying,,,

[Jinzoningen MULE]

ginyu frog is still alive in this time line,,,,



just saying,,,

We don't know that for sure.

...that being said, he isn't totally unwelcome.

[HeroR]

I wonder how truthfull this fusions are.

While I'm scrambling my brain over this nonsense, there's something I need to clarify: does the time ring only allows to travel forward into the future, and then return to the previou present time, OR does the time ring alows to freely travel anywhere in time but the Kaioshin are just forbidden to use it to travel to the past? I think it's the first, but the latter would sort of explain how he exchanged bodies with pre-BoG Goku (or did the body swap ocurred at the beginning of this arc? Goku and Piccolo were harvesting lettuces and carrots, were they not...? But that's still past...)...

Yeah the body swap occurred PostU6 arc in a timeline where Trunks didn't come back and talk about Black. As for your other question I am not too sure but I think they're just forbidden to go back.

Trunks had to come back otherwise Goku would have no reason to fight Zamasu in U10. The flashback shows it was Episode 53 when Black talks about Goku beating him.

[THEGOKU]

Well playing off of the manga and how Zamasu was training with Supreme Kai, could it be that the original Zamasu vs Goku fight happened because he wanted to meet Goku since he was a mortal and that could be how his hatred of him grew. Afterall in that timeline with no trunks coming back to the past there is no evil going on in the world. Since he did that he went to Trunk's timeline to recruit future Zamasu and then since Trunks is the one who left in the first place to the past to get Goku and the others involved that leads us to everything we have seen especially since in the timeline of Black Beerus is alive and in the future he isn't. I think I cracked the mystery here idk. Feel free to tell me I am wrong after all it's just speculation.