Bullza wrote:This is my updated version of this list as of the current episode.
God Tier
Zeno
Top Tier
Grand Priest
Whis/Vados
Beerus
Champa
Super Saiyan Blue Tier
Super Enraged Trunks
Super Saiyan Rose Black
Super Saiyan Blue Goku
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Zamasu
Golden Frieza
Hit (Without Timeskip)
Black (Could be several places higher)
Super Saiyan Tier
Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks (start of this saga)
Super Saiyan 2 Goku/Vegeta
Super Saiyan Trunks
Super Saiyan Goku/Vegeta
Super Saiyan Cabba
Magetta
Final Form Frost
Base Tier
Trunks
Goku/Vegeta/Cabba
Super Saiyan God Goku
Final Form Frieza
Assault Frost
DBZ Tier
Super Vegito
Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
First Form Frost
First Form Frieza
Majin Buu
Useless Tier
Super Saiyan Gohan
Gohan/Piccolo
Tagoma
Future Zamasu appears to be stronger than Present Zamasu. This is 17 years later after all, and Zamasu had room for improvement according to Goku.
Also, SS2 Trunks after his training with Vegeta appears to be stronger than Future Zamasu. He would have killed him if he wasn't immortal.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Zamasu got destroyed by Trunks. His powerlevel is very inconsistent. I'd say he's still a weakling.
That might not be saying anything though because Trunks could probably have been Super Saiyan Blue level himself. It could be inconsistent because Goku didn't destroy him and Trunks seemed to handle him better than Goku did it though he does have a sword.
At the very least he should be as strong as SSJ3 Goku though.
Future Zamasu appears to be stronger than Present Zamasu. This is 17 years later after all, and Zamasu had room for improvement according to Goku.
He should be stronger but when these beings are supposed to be millions upon millions of years old you'd think 17 years would be insignificant.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
buutenks wrote:
As for power levels. Here r my thoughts:
Omni-king
2 Guards
2 unknown beings
High Priest
Vados
Whis
Beerus
Champa
Hit
kkx10 ssj blue Goku
Black Rose
Enraged ssj blue Goku/Super Trunks
ssj blue Goku/Vegeta
Golden Freeza
Super Saiyan God
ssj3 Goku/ssj3 Vegetto
FPssj2 Trunks/ssj2 Vegetto
ssj2 Goku/Vegeta/ssj1 Vegetto
Future Zamasu/Present Zamasu
ssj1 Goku/Vegeta/Magetta
ssj1 Trunks
FF Frost
Base Goku/Vegeta/Assault Form Frost
Final Form Freeza/Buuhan
Base Trunks/Piccolo(u6 tournament)/Mystic Gohan/DBS Gohan(after training with Piccolo)
ssj3 Gotenks
First Form Freeza
ssj Gohan(ROF arc)
ssj Gotenks
Tagoma/Super Perfect Cell
Base Gohan
Piccolo(Rof arc)
I'm fine with this except:
- Hit should be below KK x10 Goku. When hit time-stopped KK x10 goku, and punched him like 100 times, the effect was same as highly tired x10 goku punching hit once.
- Future Zamasu should be stronger. Goku said Zamasu had a lot of room for imorovement and he seemed to be comparable to blues. Maybe he should be around SSG level.
apex_pretador wrote:- Hit should be below KK x10 Goku. When hit time-stopped KK x10 goku, and punched him like 100 times, the effect was same as highly tired x10 goku punching hit once.
That's because Hit was holding back. Goku explained that if Hit wasn't holding back his assassination techniques due to the tournament rules, he'd die from that attack. That was basically the main reason why he requested for a rule change.
Taking another look at it, I think what some people suggested about Trunks could be true.
It kinda does seem like it's a streamlined version of Trunks' Ultra form.
When he starts to transform you can see him bulk up at first but then his muscles restrict. His eyes are pure white just the same and his hair is spikier kinda the same. When he starts walking it's as if he's heavy like the Ultra Trunks would be.
Plus they did only just show the form recently.
Could be completely wrong of course because the event Ultra Trunks didn't have white eyes and it doesn't really explain the blue aura though it could mean nothing and might be a visual effect.
Bullza wrote:Taking another look at it, I think what some people suggested about Trunks could be true.
It kinda does seem like it's a streamlined version of Trunks' Ultra form.
When he starts to transform you can see him bulk up at first but then his muscles restrict. His eyes are pure white just the same and his hair is spikier kinda the same. When he starts walking it's as if he's heavy like the Ultra Trunks would be.
Plus they did only just show the form recently.
Could be completely wrong of course because the event Ultra Trunks didn't have white eyes and it doesn't really explain the blue aura though it could mean nothing and might be a visual effect.
Trunks had no pupils when he powered to ussj2. So looks similar, except now he is in a constant rage.
buutenks wrote:
Trunks had no pupils when he powered to ussj2. So looks similar, except now he is in a constant rage.
Ussj2?
Could you perhaps be referring to SSJ Grade 2?
In which case, it seems that Trunks retains his pupils in SSJ Grade 2 in Dragon Ball Super.
It just seems to me that Trunks is some kind of "Pseudo-Super Saiyan God".
One might argue that God is not a transformation that can be reached by pure rage, but I wouldn't jump on conclusions so fast, It's been shown that there is more than one method to become a God.
buutenks wrote:When Trunks raged, he went grade 3 mode for a moment, then his muscles compressed and his power spiked. You can see that Trunks body is so heavy that the ground breaks.
I think it is fpssj2 + grade 3 compressed, plus some god ki thrown in the mix.
Yeah, I think it's pretty much this. I wonder if this'll be a Toei exlcusive deal or not like SSB KKx10.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-
It could be as was said there, some combination of SSJ2, Grade 3 and SSJB.
SSJ2 Trunks was already very powerful but he'd have more raw physical power in his Grade 3 form which he used briefly against Vegeta. If he could take that power and combress it so he doesn't lose any speed then it should be really powerful.
Well, after rewatching the fight in ep 57, Trunks clearly got a rage boost. Black Rose was like WTF? when Trunks blocked his attack with his sword. While he may have gotten a slight increase in power(i somehow doubt it, since no one mentioned), i doubt he is much stronger than when he fought Goku or Vegeta.
As for Future Zamasu, ye he did indeed hold his own against ssj blue Goku in ep 57. Tho i suspect, if he didnt have immortality, he would get one shotted by Vegeta or Goku.
The talk at the mountain cabin also makes me think Zamasu didnt really power up from when he fought ssj2 Goku. Since he basically obtained immortality not much later.
DBZ Macky wrote:It just seems to me that Trunks is some kind of "Pseudo-Super Saiyan God".
One might argue that God is not a transformation that can be reached by pure rage, but I wouldn't jump on conclusions so fast, It's been shown that there is more than one method to become a God.
Vegeta seems to have tapped to his SSG dormant powers in BoG arc*, and Trunks seems to have SSB aura inside his SS aura, and apparently has reached SSB level.
*As far as the anime is concerned at least. Based on Beerus having used 10% of his power, if that line was written with the 70% line against SSG from the movie, it appears that Enraged SS2 Vegeta was 1/6th SSG Goku. Furthermore, Whis told him that if he was to learn how to control his ki, he would reach, and even potentially surpass Goku, and his comment seems to be based on his demonstration against Beerus. After Vegeta did that training with Whis, he reached Goku's level, and even obtained the power of SSG, which allowed him to become a SSB. Neither the movie nor the manga have made any connection to Vegeta's rage boost with SSG though.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
All of the Saiyan's have God ki in them already, this is shown by the fact that powered leaked out of them and went inside Goku for the ritual as evidenced by the blue aura like energy we saw during the sequence. That being said, it's weird for a form that's pretty calm in comparison to the rest to get activated by murderous rage. I guess as long as its righteous its okay?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Its somewhat funny that Trunks's transformation was triggered when Black told him that its a sin to go back in time and that he should have never gone back in time, to save Goku. He saw bulma die, thought mai was killed and he even got a small rage boost back in ep 57 due to vegeta getting stabbed. But he never got such a huge power increase.
SSJG/Base Goku/Vegeta should be at least 10 times stronger than Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta just on the basis of withstanding an attack from 100% Beerus better than Vegeta withstood an attack from 10% Beerus.
buutenks wrote:Its somewhat funny that Trunks's transformation was triggered when Black told him that its a sin to go back in time and that he should have never gone back in time, to save Goku. He saw bulma die, thought mai was killed and he even got a small rage boost back in ep 57 due to vegeta getting stabbed. But he never got such a huge power increase.
I believe that has to do with Trunks thinking about all this shit happening because of him when he did everything in his power to prevent it. It's like he remembered every single detail and let it explode. His power increasing more this time sounds justified.
Bullza wrote:SSJG/Base Goku/Vegeta should be at least 10 times stronger than Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta just on the basis of withstanding an attack from 100% Beerus better than Vegeta withstood an attack from 10% Beerus.
What 100% attack? From the BoG arc? Cause that's probably a lie seeing as Beerus admitted to doing so throughout his entire fight with Goku.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Nah it was the mouth blast from the unrestrained Beerus which badly hurt Goku didn't knock him out or anything. Whereas Beerus at 10% took SSJ2 Vegeta out with a poke.
So Base Goku and Vegeta stood up better to an attack that was at least 10 times more powerful than the one that took out SSJ2 Vegeta.
