What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Without "DBZ" the franchise would have likely faded away into obscurity.

What do you mean? Dragon Ball was thriving before the Z portion of the series.

Not in America, which is why we didn't see it in its entirety until later. Either way, Dragon Ball would not have been as popular without Z. Especially so considering that a large portion of the fandom finds Dragon Ball to be boring.

[Sailor Haumea]

midichlorians....

but seriously, episode of Bardock and DB Minus were pretty low points.

I agree Minus was bad, but EoB isn't as bad as people say it is. It's a good end to his story, and adds a bit of irony to Frieza's actions - he engineered not only his demise, but the very fears that led him to destroy Planet Vegeta.

I've always felt that the method by which Bardock wound up in the past isn't clear-cut.

One interpretation is Vegeta's destruction created a wormhole.

Another is that the time-travelling was part of that Kanassan's "gift".

[Bansho64]

Either way, Dragon Ball would not have been as popular without Z.

I can kinda agree with this but I definitely wouldn't say it would've faded away.

[Cure Dragon 255]

You misunderstood, I'm not saying "The Z Half doesnt need to exist or is lame or whatever". What I'm saying is that ALL of Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball as in the "Z part" is an imaginary division made by Toei,Toriyama came up with it but he was forced by Toei. ALL OF DRAGONBALL IS JUST DRAGON BALL. I'm really sorry for the all caps but it needs to be said.

And if SOME you consider DBZ to be oh so superior, why do you associate it with Super and Minus? Because you consider the Z part to be all of Dragon Ball and that its the only part that matters? Fuck that.

I will explain it better, if DBZ had no Z but it started at the Saiyan Saga anyway in USA. UK and whatever, would you still say the division is real?

[Sailor Haumea]

Remember that the division was made by Toei. In the manga, DB and DBZ share a continuous issue number. It doesn't reset starting with the Saiyan Saga.

[Cure Dragon 255]

This dude knows where its at!

That's what I'm saying, I'm NOT saying Z isnt crucial and even that it DIDNT help DB find a better footing in North America! It was crucial for that, but that's it. Its not all of the manga and its not the only part that matters. The divide was imaginary but it was still crucial in getting the USA, Canada and so on to stomach the franchise.

But I will never stop saying this, all of Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball. The title irks me because it assumes every Dragon Ball product is Z.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Remember that the division was made by Toei. In the manga, DB and DBZ share a continuous issue number. It doesn't reset starting with the Saiyan Saga.

If we were in a universe where the manga popularized the franchise internationally, this would matter.

[Soccerjam]

ZENO

[SaiyanZ]

Dragon Ball Minus, Fukkatsu no F as a whole (ESPECIALLY the film), the way the U6 tournament was handled in the anime (didn't like it a whole lot in the manga either), Zamasu as a character, Trunks getting nonsensically wanked. Episode of Bardock is so garbage as well. Also, Battle of Z sucks.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

The lamest thing to come out of DBS was the resurgences of power level fans debating power levels (in a franchise that completely stopped giving a shit and disregarded them since the arc they were introduced).

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The lamest thing to come out of DBS was the resurgences of power level fans debating power levels (in a franchise that completely stopped giving a shit and disregarded them since the arc they were introduced).

I can't really put that on DBS, it would have happened regardless.

[Lord Beerus]

The lamest thing to come out of DBS was the resurgences of power level fans debating power levels (in a franchise that completely stopped giving a shit and disregarded them since the arc they were introduced).

I can't really put that on DBS, it would have happened regardless.

Yeah, there is a large portion of this fanbase that is absolutely obsessed with number crunching.

[FoolsGil]

Not trying to be a complainer about Super, but if the Mafuba could work on non-demons, then it should have been used far more often.

[TheGreatness25]

Too... many... transformations. We didn't even get the 60 episode mark and we already had a Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Rose, and whatever Trunks became. Dragon Ball Z had four transformations (not counting fusion) that actually alter the character's appearance... four in 291 episodes. Dragon Ball's only real transformation was the great ape form. GT had only Super Saiyan 4. I think that they're putting out way too many transformations, and more are coming. This is turning into a bad stereotypical DB meme. "Ugh I can't beat him!" *ZOOMMMMMM* "Ha! Now I can beat him!"

And still through it all, no human transformations? That's lame. Super Lame God Super Lame.

[Freeza9000]

Too... many... transformations. We didn't even get the 60 episode mark and we already had a Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, Super Saiyan Rose, and whatever Trunks became. Dragon Ball Z had four transformations (not counting fusion) that actually alter the character's appearance... four in 291 episodes. Dragon Ball's only real transformation was the great ape form. GT had only Super Saiyan 4. I think that they're putting out way too many transformations, and more are coming. This is turning into a bad stereotypical DB meme. "Ugh I can't beat him!" *ZOOMMMMMM* "Ha! Now I can beat him!"

And still through it all, no human transformations? That's lame. Super Lame God Super Lame.

That amount is still far below the amount Z gave us.

[Bansho64]

That amount is still far below the amount Z gave us.

Z had 3. Super has 3. The Grade forms are power ups.

[Freeza9000]

That amount is still far below the amount Z gave us.

Z had 3. Super has 3. The Grade forms are power ups.

Hmmm....
-All of Freeza's forms
-Zarbon's monster form
-Great Ape or Oozaru
-SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3
-All of Cell's forms
-All of Boo's forms

With Super, so far we only have SSJG, SSJB, SSJR, Trunks's recent form (maybe), and Golden Freeza as new forms.

[fadeddreams5]

I'm pretty sure he's only referring to SSJ transformations. Villains transforming has always been a good thing in the franchise.

[Bansho64]

Hmmm....
-All of Freeza's forms
-Zarbon's monster form
-Great Ape or Oozaru
-SSJ1, SSJ2, SSJ3
-All of Cell's forms
-All of Boo's forms

With Super, so far we only have SSJG, SSJB, SSJR, Trunks's recent form (maybe), and Golden Freeza as new forms.

I was talking strictly about the Super Saiyajin forms. And like the comment above me, I actually like most of forms from the villains. I don't really like Super's forms at all.

[Freeza9000]

Villains transforming has always been a good thing in the franchise.

Yeah, the villains' transformations did add tension, but it did become kinda stale after a while. More specifically the Cell arc. There was none needed for Beerus, Hit, Immortal Zamasu, etc.