Why did Raditz and Nappa have to die?

[Xeztin]

Basically as the title says, if they could have beat Raditz and Nappa into retreating like Goku did Vegeta at first, they could have lived. I was a bit flabbergasted that Vegeta, who holds so much pride and anger over the extinction of his race, killed one of his own. I feel like Raditz and Nappa should have lived, because to me they didn't really do much. If Vegeta could be talked into being good, I'm sure Nappa could have. It's strange because when I ask someone about villains in the series, usually it's all Freeza, Cell, Boo etc.. Even people talk about villains from the original Dragon Ball over Nappa and Raditz, have they really been that forgotten? I suppose it could have a lot to do with the Super Saiyan form not being introduced at that particular time as well. Nappa seemed like he was a lot older and reached his peak in life, but Raditz looked like he still had a lot of improving to do.

[Slangh]

Nappa was just there to add drama and to make Vegeta look even more dangerous. He was a henchman villain so of course he had to die. But the way Raditz was treated was just sad. He had to die after only a few chapters even though he marked the beginning of a whole new era in Dragon Ball. He was Goku's brother for crying out loud! If he was spared we could have seen some interesting bonding between him and Goku.

[Fionordequester]

Basically as the title says, if they could have beat Raditz and Nappa into retreating like Goku did Vegeta at first, they could have lived. I was a bit flabbergasted that Vegeta, who holds so much pride and anger over the extinction of his race, killed one of his own. I feel like Raditz and Nappa should have lived, because to me they didn't really do much. If Vegeta could be talked into being good, I'm sure Nappa could have. It's strange because when I ask someone about villains in the series, usually it's all Freeza, Cell, Boo etc.. Even people talk about villains from the original Dragon Ball over Nappa and Raditz, have they really been that forgotten? I suppose it could have a lot to do with the Super Saiyan form not being introduced at that particular time as well. Nappa seemed like he was a lot older and reached his peak in life, but Raditz looked like he still had a lot of improving to do.

Well, Raditz definitely had to go, just because he was WAY too strong for Goku and Piccolo to just let him run amok. Plus, Goku already tried sparing him, and that was precisely WHY he ended up sacrificing himself to start with.

Nappa, however, didn't need to die; that was precisely the point. Vegeta didn't have to kill him, yet he did so anyway. That makes us hate him even more.

[Nejishiki]

I'm not sure how you could claim neither did much. Raditz was the catalyst for the Saiyan Invasion. Nappa contributed towards making the Namek trip necessary. Relatively speaking, sure, they were "minor" compared to the entire story told. You shouldn't judge their impact by page count though. Raditz and Nappa furthered the characterization of others while maintaining their identity. I'm not processing the idea they're "owed" anything. Luster is lost when the author attempts to reform every character. It should be done with purpose. You could point out how often Goku turns his former rivals, but it's not executed as quickly as we converse about it. It's a gradual change that shouldn't be cluttered with so many foes to focus on.

Their purpose was to demonstrate what natural Saiyans were like. It ultimately adds poignancy to the Goku and Freeza battle. Vegeta killed Nappa because he was crippled. A Saiyan who can't fight is useless. He neglected Raditz because he perceived him as a waste of space. He was only good for informing them about Dragon Balls. Reverse this and Raditz was a dirty coward who wasn't above doing anything to win, even using his brother's kindness against him. Nappa was battle-obsessed to a flaw and reveled in destruction without order, a dog of war. He has to be threatened not to kill on a whimsy. They're hardwired.

Interactions like that are also supposed to paint a picture for Vegeta, the main antagonist of that arc. He's the worst of them all and proves Freeza right. The royal elite talk is just to revel in his own superiority. He does not enjoy when things don't go his way. He'll torture you to prove a point and laugh at you in the process. In turn, the comparisons to the next antagonist, Freeza, showcases that they aren't too different from each other. Have you noticed they share traits? There's hardly anything to question because that's the intent with their characters and how casual their actions are against others. Vegeta being an exceptional case is weakened if Raditz and Nappa are implied to not have been as nasty as portrayed. It undermines Vegeta's behavior if they were simply misunderstood all along. Furthermore, Vegeta being the most extreme out of the trio detracts not only from his character but from the narrative that benefits Goku's change if it were that easy. They were never forgotten nor never appreciated at all. We just moved on from them. They were stepping stones for grander moments. I wouldn't trade away Raditz being one of the few people Goku hates. It's stronger when you realize he's the only link to his heritage and he throws it away for Gohan instead.

[Cure Dragon 255]

BEEYOOTIFUL POST! I love it!-

[Mr. Frog]

I'm pretty much reiterating what everyone else has said, but their deaths were used to further the story in their own ways.

Raditz I think was killed to show that facing a Saiyan warrior is a tough and dangerous encounter. Literally a fight to the death. I mean, if it took the nearly invincible Goku being killed just to take out one of these guys, just imagine fighting two more that are even stronger than him! Just raising the stakes to keep it interesting and suspenseful.

Nappa being killed was like others have said, just a way to show Vegetas cold ruthlessness and great power. Could also think of it like pro-wrestling. You build up some bad guy to make them look strong, so that when the good guy finally beats them for the belt or whatever, it makes them look even stronger. Nothing impressive about beating a weakling, in other words.

[Captain Strawberry]

I would like these two to come back as good guys. I am a fan of Nappa from abridge so that's a lot to do with it.

[Ozotto]

Kinda weird there was no mention of Raditz after he died.

Resurrection of F shoulda been Resurrection of R.

Imagine Goku's brother being resurected and training to become stronger then his baby brother who murdered him...

Now that, that sir is a decent plot.

[FoolsGil]

Raditz' story is definitely a tragedy because of Minus. Gine and Bardock sealed his fate by lying to him. That said, Raditz wasn't a character, he was a device. He was there to change Dragonball from the grounded martial arts series, to the sci-fi element it is now. Someone had to be the villain for that, and while most mangaka may have went with someone else, and would have had Raditz take Vegeta's or Nappa's spot so he would have been reformed, Toriyama went with Raditz to be the game changer and the one to die.

Nappa...Nappa's a crony, and indirectly killed Yamcha, and directly killed Chaozu, Tenshinhan, and Piccolo. He deserved to die.

[Cipher]

For our sins.

[floofychan333]

Because Akira Toriyama wanted to move the story forward and having two other Saiyajins would have made it way too easy to beat Frieza.
Also, nobody's forgotten Nappa thanks to TeamFourStar

[omaro34]

Raditz' story is definitely a tragedy because of Minus. Gine and Bardock sealed his fate by lying to him. That said, Raditz wasn't a character, he was a device. He was there to change Dragonball from the grounded martial arts series, to the sci-fi element it is now. Someone had to be the villain for that, and while most mangaka may have went with someone else, and would have had Raditz take Vegeta's or Nappa's spot so he would have been reformed, Toriyama went with Raditz to be the game changer and the one to die.

Nappa...Nappa's a crony, and indirectly killed Yamcha, and directly killed Chaozu, Tenshinhan, and Piccolo. He deserved to die.

I didn't mind Nappa being killed because he wiped out the vast majority of the Z fighters like you mentioned, but Raditz' story is a damn tragedy. I know that his purpose was to demonstrate to the audience what real Saiyans were like, but for someone who was Goku's older brother, we rarely knew much about him. He never appeared in the Bardock movie, and he died just as quick as he was introduced; to never come back and not even appear in Hell in feature Arcs & films.

I said this before plenty of times: There needed to be a movie or a mini splash of episodes depicting the adventures of Nappa, Vegeta, and Raditz when Goku was growing up in Dragonball. How did they bear answering Freeza? Was all of their missions to conquer planets easy? Things like that.

[Fionordequester]

I didn't mind Nappa being killed because he wiped out the vast majority of the Z fighters like you mentioned, but Raditz' story is a damn tragedy. I know that his purpose was to demonstrate to the audience what real Saiyans were like, but for someone who was Goku's older brother, we rarely knew much about him. He never appeared in the Bardock movie, and he died just as quick as he was introduced; to never come back and not even appear in Hell in feature Arcs & films.

Raditz did that to himself, though. Goku TRIED to give him a second chance, and he literally got killed for his generosity. Otherwise, Raditz would have gotten to leave Earth (and presumably come back at some point).

[FoolsGil]

I didn't mind Nappa being killed because he wiped out the vast majority of the Z fighters like you mentioned, but Raditz' story is a damn tragedy. I know that his purpose was to demonstrate to the audience what real Saiyans were like, but for someone who was Goku's older brother, we rarely knew much about him. He never appeared in the Bardock movie, and he died just as quick as he was introduced; to never come back and not even appear in Hell in feature Arcs & films.

Raditz did that to himself, though. Goku TRIED to give him a second chance, and he literally got killed for his generosity. Otherwise, Raditz would have gotten to leave Earth (and presumably come back at some point).

That shouldn't be a disqualifier. Even Bulma tried to kill him. Fuck, Vegeta tried to kill him, and took three story arcs lasting 10 years story times to get over his jealousy, and he still went majin like a douche.

Yes, Raditz was evil. He was a murderer, but he was also in good company for villains turned hero, and maybe things would have been different if he was told the real reason Goku was on Earth.

[Fionordequester]

Yes, Raditz was evil. He was a murderer, but he was also in good company for villains turned hero, and maybe things would have been different if he was told the real reason Goku was on Earth.

You're forgetting one thing though; Goku was fully capable of defeating every one of the people he spared. Sure, Vegeta overpowered him in their first fight, but that was only on account of Goku not being to use higher Kaioken levels. Once he mastered it further, he spent almost the entire rest of the series being leaps and bounds above Vegeta.

This was not the case with Raditz. Goku could barely even scratch the guy, let alone harm him. Otherwise, I'm sure he would have tried to let him go. So, Raditz had to die because of these two reasons...

1) Goku tried to spare Raditz, only for Raditz to use it against him.

2) Raditz was far too strong for him and Piccolo to control at the time.

In other words, Raditz had to die because of necessity, NOT because he deserved it any more than Vegeta did. The guy was literally going to kill him, Gohan, Piccolo, and everyone on Earth if they did not put him down RIGHT THAT SECOND!!. Raditz forced his hand in a way that not even Vegeta was able to do.

[FoolsGil]

Yes, Raditz was evil. He was a murderer, but he was also in good company for villains turned hero, and maybe things would have been different if he was told the real reason Goku was on Earth.

You're forgetting one thing though; Goku was fully capable of defeating every one of the people he spared. Sure, Vegeta overpowered him in their first fight, but that was only on account of Goku not being to use higher Kaioken levels...

...In other words, Raditz had to die because of necessity, NOT because he deserved it any more than Vegeta did. The guy was literally going to kill him, Gohan, Piccolo, and everyone on Earth if they did not put him down RIGHT THAT SECOND!!. Raditz forced his hand in a way that not even Vegeta was able to do.

That's a flimsy excuse, and just purports that Vegeta deserved to live more than Raditz, which you claim isn't the case, but media shows different. Raditz tried to kill his family, Vegeta tried to destroy the Earth.

[Fionordequester]

That's a flimsy excuse, and just purports that Vegeta deserved to live more than Raditz, which you claim isn't the case, but media shows different. Raditz tried to kill his family, Vegeta tried to destroy the Earth.

So Raditz being a clear and imminent danger isn't an excuse to kill him? I want to be sure I understand this, so, let me give you a hypothetical scenario...

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I live in the Batman universe, and I got myself some awesome training from Batman. Don't know how, but somehow I did, and I managed to become almost as good as Batman himself. So, afterwards, I run into the Joker. The guy is relentlessly evil, and rotten to the core...but he's still just a man. It's dangerous to fight him, sure, but...I can be reasonably sure that I can beat him. He likely won't kill me, even if I keep giving him multiple chances to do so...

But what if I run into General Zod instead? Let's say he's a...slightly sympathetic character, like he was in "Man of Steel". He legitimately cares for his soldiers, and wants Kal-El to join them. He and I then get into a life-or-death fight, and he spends the entire match punting me around like a soccer ball. He toys with me for the entire fight, while I myself can barely even scratch him. Furthermore, he's made it clear that he fully intends to obliterate every single person on the entire planet if he wins.

I then somehow decapacitate him with Kryptonite...and then toss it away when I decide to give him another shot. He then repays me by stabbing me through the stomach with one punch. He grins, lifts me up in the air (with me still impaled on his arm), and is about to kill me...but then decides to throw me to the ground and kill an innocent family in front of me.

I then realize this; "I am literally going to die in just a few minutes". I'm beyond saving; he's punctured far too many of my arteries. But, I do have JUST enough strength to pick up that piece of Kryptonite, decapacitate him again, and then slit his throat in the VERY brief window of time that I have. I can't save myself, but I can at least put a stop to Zod's murdering spree before it can begin. So, that's what I do; then I bleed out almost immediately afterward.

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So, you tell me; was General Zod (from Man of Steel) a worse person than the Joker? No, of course not. His chances of rehabilitation were far higher than the Joker's.

But, in my hypothetical scenario, he forced my hand in a way that the Joker was never able to do. Are you saying, that even in THAT scenario, I don't have the right to kill Zod? That I have only "flimsy excuses" for killing him? Is that what you're saying?

[FoolsGil]

That's a flimsy excuse, and just purports that Vegeta deserved to live more than Raditz, which you claim isn't the case, but media shows different. Raditz tried to kill his family, Vegeta tried to destroy the Earth.

So Raditz being a clear and imminent danger isn't an excuse to kill him? I want to be sure I understand this, so, let me give you a hypothetical scenario...

I didn't say that at all. My clear argument was Raditz' death was tragic because he was lied to. I recognized he was evil. I recognized that due to being an opponent he would have to be put down. But I also recognize reformation is big in this series, and because he was lied to, you could make a reasonable argument say he was unnecessarily put down when maybe things could have ended differently.

Now you may argue, screw that, Raditz had it coming and that second chance Goku gave him meant he was never going to change and had to be put down. While recognizing that, All I have to say is Vegeta. Just Vegeta. Because Vegeta did worst than Raditz did, and yet he's the one running with God Ki in Super, fully reformed, and not Goku's brother. We can go back and forth, but with the knowledge of Vegeta's douchebaggery, I can continue arguing that Raditz' death is tragic, because Vegeta is Vegeta, and got more chances, more rights, wife, kid, openly threatened his allies, made in no uncertain terms he wanted Goku dead, after committing a couple more atrocities, fully reformed and welcomed back i loving arms, all that, more than Raditz ever could have gotten.

And so I could continue to say Poor Raditz while recognizing and accepting that Raditz was evil and had to be killed. All because of Minus, and all because of Vegeta

[Fionordequester]

I didn't say that at all. My clear argument was Raditz' death was tragic because he was lied to. I recognized he was evil. I recognized that due to being an opponent he would have to be put down. But I also recognize reformation is big in this series, and because he was lied to, you could make a reasonable argument say he was unnecessarily put down when maybe things could have ended differently.

Ohhh...I think I understand now. The thread title asks "Why did Raditz and Nappa have to die", but it seems we moved on from that question at some point. So NOW the question is, "Was their death a tragedy/could they have reformed under the right circumstances"? Sorry, I misunderstood why you were saying what you said.

In THAT case, my answer is a whole-hearted YES; there's a good chance that they could have been reformed! In fact, I think everyone alive has this ability, even psychopaths; it's just a matter of whether or not they choose to do so.

[Sailor Haumea]

Raditz' story is definitely a tragedy because of Minus. Gine and Bardock sealed his fate by lying to him. That said, Raditz wasn't a character, he was a device. He was there to change Dragonball from the grounded martial arts series, to the sci-fi element it is now. Someone had to be the villain for that, and while most mangaka may have went with someone else, and would have had Raditz take Vegeta's or Nappa's spot so he would have been reformed, Toriyama went with Raditz to be the game changer and the one to die.

Nappa...Nappa's a crony, and indirectly killed Yamcha, and directly killed Chaozu, Tenshinhan, and Piccolo. He deserved to die.

Nappa didn't kill Chiaotzu and Tien Shinhan.

Chiaotzu killed himself by self-destructing. Tien used the Kikoho in a weakened state, and died as a result.

Of the Z-Fighters, only Piccolo was directly killed by Nappa.

EDIT: To those of you claiming Vegeta was less evil than Raditz, remember this:

1. Vegeta blew up Arlia, despite Nappa pointing out they were heroes to the Arlians. If Vegeta wasn't there, Nappa probably would've just left the planet.
2. Nappa wanted to revive Raditz. That was his first idea for the wish.

Nappa would've been fine with just leaving the Arlians alone and reviving his comrade. Vegeta mercilessly eradicated a race who thought of him AS A HERO and wanted immortality.

Nappa, compared to Saiyan Saga Vegeta and Raditz, was a saint.