The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[DanielSSJ]

Alright, what if when Goku got to Namek he decided to fuse with Vegeta to take Frieza?

Assuming this is Goku when he first arrived on Namek, the power difference between him and Vegeta prevents them from being an optimal pair for Fusion. Namek arc Vegetto ends up slightly stronger than Goku was when he fought Freeza. Unless he kills Freeza before he reaches his final form, Vegetto loses.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Alright, what if when Goku got to Namek he decided to fuse with Vegeta to take Frieza?

Assuming this is Goku when he first arrived on Namek, the power difference between him and Vegeta prevents them from being an optimal pair for Fusion. Namek arc Vegetto ends up slightly stronger than Goku was when he fought Freeza. Unless he kills Freeza before he reaches his final form, Vegetto loses.

Let's say in this hypothetical Goku doesn't get his body snatched by Ginyu. After Vegeta eats the Senzu he gets a decent Zenkai and is able to beat Jeice effortlesly, so he's gotta be at least at 70k or so, so how about now?

[nickzambuto]

21st Budokai Oozaru Goku vs Demon King Piccolo

According to power levels, this Goku should be reaching Raditz level, which hardly seems right. So I just disregard that and put these two on about the same level since the Water was implied to have unlocked kid Goku's Oozaru strength.

[DanielSSJ]

Alright, what if when Goku got to Namek he decided to fuse with Vegeta to take Frieza?

Assuming this is Goku when he first arrived on Namek, the power difference between him and Vegeta prevents them from being an optimal pair for Fusion. Namek arc Vegetto ends up slightly stronger than Goku was when he fought Freeza. Unless he kills Freeza before he reaches his final form, Vegetto loses.

Let's say in this hypothetical Goku doesn't get his body snatched by Ginyu. After Vegeta eats the Senzu he gets a decent Zenkai and is able to beat Jeice effortlesly, so he's gotta be at least at 70k or so, so how about now?

Vegeta officially has a battle power of 250,000, which is more than twice Goku's 90,000 (not counting Kaioken). Using my bullshit Potara fusion formula, Vegetto is now about a 10th of Freeza's full power. With Kaioken, he can stalemate him. Freeza has terrible stamina at 100%, but the Kaioken isn't made for extended use either. However, If Vegetto uses a Kaioken x20 fuelled Kamehameha (or Gallic Gun, I'm not choosey), they almost undoubtedly win.

21st Budokai Oozaru Goku vs Demon King Piccolo

According to power levels, this Goku should be reaching Raditz level, which hardly seems right. So I just disregard that and put these two on about the same level since the Water was implied to have unlocked kid Goku's Oozaru strength.

If Ozaru Goku and Piccolo are of the same strength, Goku loses badly. Without the power advantage, a dumb animal like that has no chance against someone who can actually strategize.

[nickzambuto]

Alright, what if when Goku got to Namek he decided to fuse with Vegeta to take Frieza?

Assuming this is Goku when he first arrived on Namek, the power difference between him and Vegeta prevents them from being an optimal pair for Fusion. Namek arc Vegetto ends up slightly stronger than Goku was when he fought Freeza. Unless he kills Freeza before he reaches his final form, Vegetto loses.

Let's say in this hypothetical Goku doesn't get his body snatched by Ginyu. After Vegeta eats the Senzu he gets a decent Zenkai and is able to beat Jeice effortlesly, so he's gotta be at least at 70k or so, so how about now?

Vegeta's strength is weird at this point since he went from getting savagely beaten by Recoome to matching Freeza. Did this Zenkai really raise him from 30,000 straight to 530,000? Power levels are bullshit.

Well either way, let's compare the difference between Boo arc Goku/Vegeta and Boohan, to the difference between Namek arrival Goku and Freeza, to see if the Potata power would be enough.

SSJ1 Goku = SSJ1 Vegeta <<< SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta < Fat Boo = SSJ3 Goku (Vegeta wasn't completely curbstomped by Fat Boo like some people make it out like. He actually put up an incredible effort. And the leap from SSJ2 to SSJ3 isn't as large as the leap from SSJ1 to SSJ2 anyway) < Super/Evil Boo (I know some people who believe in the SSJ1 Gotenks = Fat Boo thing put Evil Boo miles above Goku, but that whole thing has never sat right with me. It was never outright stated that "Gotenks at just SSJ1 can defeat Fat Boo. Just that Goku hoped the power of fusion would give the boys the edge they needed to save the world, but he was probably expecting further training and boosts and context. It was supposed to be a struggle equivalent to the Freeza and Cell fights. Evil Boo should technically have the exact same power as Fat Boo, merely with no restraint, so I can't picture him literally being like 50x more powerful) < Gohan < Bootenks < Boohan <<< SSJ1 Vegetto.

Add all that together (and this is hardly an exact science, lol) and it goes SSJ1 Goku/SSJ1 Vegeta <<<<<<<<<<< SSJ1 Vegetto. That's the boost Potara grants (11 tiers).

Namek arrival Goku <<< First Form Freeza = Vegeta <<< Second Form Freeza = Piccolo <<< Third Form Freeza <<< Final Form Freeza = Goku <<< 50% Freeza <<< 100% Freeza.

Add all that together, and Namek arrival Goku <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 100% Freeza. 18 tiers.

There ya have it. Namek arc Vegetto would not be enough to take on Freeza. Although these tiers I've come up with are completely and entirely subjective, I've always thought that the power progression during the Freeza arc was by far the largest in the series anyway. The way Freeza was portrayed in that arc was truly godlike.

Actually, on second thought, with Kaioken Vegetto might be able to pull it off.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Assuming this is Goku when he first arrived on Namek, the power difference between him and Vegeta prevents them from being an optimal pair for Fusion. Namek arc Vegetto ends up slightly stronger than Goku was when he fought Freeza. Unless he kills Freeza before he reaches his final form, Vegetto loses.

Let's say in this hypothetical Goku doesn't get his body snatched by Ginyu. After Vegeta eats the Senzu he gets a decent Zenkai and is able to beat Jeice effortlesly, so he's gotta be at least at 70k or so, so how about now?

Vegeta's strength is weird at this point since he went from getting savagely beaten by Recoome to matching Freeza. Did this Zenkai really raise him from 30,000 straight to 530,000? Power levels are bullshit.

Well either way, let's compare the difference between Boo arc Goku/Vegeta and Boohan, to the difference between Namek arrival Goku and Freeza, to see if the Potata power would be enough.

SSJ1 Goku = SSJ1 Vegeta <<< SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta < Fat Boo = SSJ3 Goku (Vegeta wasn't completely curbstomped by Fat Boo like some people make it out like. He actually put up an incredible effort. And the leap from SSJ2 to SSJ3 isn't as large as the leap from SSJ1 to SSJ2 anyway) < Super/Evil Boo (I know some people who believe in the SSJ1 Gotenks = Fat Boo thing put Evil Boo miles above Goku, but that whole thing has never sat right with me. It was never outright stated that "Gotenks at just SSJ1 can defeat Fat Boo. Just that Goku hoped the power of fusion would give the boys the edge they needed to save the world, but he was probably expecting further training and boosts and context. It was supposed to be a struggle equivalent to the Freeza and Cell fights. Evil Boo should technically have the exact same power as Fat Boo, merely with no restraint, so I can't picture him literally being like 50x more powerful) < Gohan < Bootenks < Boohan <<< SSJ1 Vegetto.

Add all that together (and this is hardly an exact science, lol) and it goes SSJ1 Goku/SSJ1 Vegeta <<<<<<<<<<< SSJ1 Vegetto. That's the boost Potara grants (11 tiers).

Namek arrival Goku <<< First Form Freeza = Vegeta <<< Second Form Freeza = Piccolo <<< Third Form Freeza <<< Final Form Freeza = Goku <<< 50% Freeza <<< 100% Freeza.

Add all that together, and Namek arrival Goku <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 100% Freeza. 18 tiers.

There ya have it. Namek arc Vegetto would not be enough to take on Freeza. Although these tiers I've come up with are completely and entirely subjective, I've always thought that the power progression during the Freeza arc was by far the largest in the series anyway. The way Freeza was portrayed in that arc was truly godlike.

Actually, on second thought, with Kaioken Vegetto might be able to pull it off.

Okay, let's say Base Vegetto is 100x Base Goku and is therefore at 9 million. With Kaioken x20 he could go up to 180 million and surpass Frieza.

[Khin]

snip

I think you should learn how to multi-quote, since double posting, let alone posting 10x in a row is not allowed.

Android #18 (Androids Arc) VS Super Saiyan Grade 2 Vegeta (pre-Time Chamber)

Having achieved the upgraded version of Super Saiyan. Vegeta sets off for a rematch against Android #18. Thinking that Vegeta is losing his mind for challenging her again, #18 starts to throw a barrage of punches and kicks to humiliate him worse than before. To her surprise, all of her attacks misses by a mile, and she is sent back flying with a punch in the face. Thinking that the stamina toll for the form might cause him trouble, Vegeta makes quick work of 18 and finishes him with a well-aimed Big Bang Attack.

- Cyborg Tao with a full power Super Dodon Wave VS Saiyan Saga Vegeta (as he's crawling towards his pod, post-Great Ape Gohan fight, right before Krillin attempts to stab Vegeta with Yajirobe's sword)
- Android 18 VS Post-1st day ROSAT Base Future Trunks (that can use up to Kaioken x10); no sword or armor

— Vegeta gets pierced through. He can barely move at that time.
— With just a mere x10 boost, Future Trunks ends up only about as strong as he was in his first appearance. Android #18 will easily tool him, even if you give upgrade it to x20, the strain will be too much whereas #18's stamina wouldn't fall.

Some more human matches!

- Androids Saga Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, Yajirobe, 100% Roshi VS Base Future Trunks (First appearance in main timeline, no sword); No Ki attacks from anyone in this match
- Base Vegeta (awakened immediately after the Android 18 beat down; has broken arm/shoulder. No turning SSJ) VSAndroids Saga Yamcha (jealously angered and bloodlusted from Vegeta fathering Trunks with Bulma)

Okay since the humans is being constantly brought up, I figure out I might post by current numbers for them in the Android/Cell Arc.

Kuririn: 3,000,000
Tenshinhan: 2,000,000
Yamcha: 1,480,000
Chaozu: 650,000

— Future Trunks gets overwhelmed. Kuririn alone is already not much weaker than Trunks. Adding the other humans to aid him just makes things way easier.
— After hearing that #18 cripples Vegeta in their fight, Yamcha sets off to try to take advantage of Vegeta's injuries to finally assert his long-awaited revenge. Thinking that a trash like Yamcha would do jackshit to him, Vegeta merely stares at him with a smirk. The blood-lusted Yamcha then starts to fire a barrage of Ki blast, much to Vegeta's dismay, he was unable to survive the barrage of attacks and dies.

Here's a few more matches then!
- Androids Saga Krillin, Tien, Yamcha VS TV Special Base Future Gohan (two-armed). No Ki attacks for everyone
- Androids Saga Chiaotzu VS TV Special Base Future Gohan (immediately right after he comes out of the rubble that used to be a carnival, from his fight with Future 17 and 18, crawling towards Future Trunks; he has one arm at this point, freshly lost but not dangerously bleeding). Ki attacks allowed
- 22nd WMAT Goku VS 23rd WMAT Cyborg Tao
- Cell Games SSJ Future Trunks (with sword and armor) and Piccolo VS Pui Pui and Yakon (no light absorbing)
- Post-1st day ROSAT USSJ Future Trunks (no sword/armor) VS Android 16, 17, and 18. Trunks isn't allowed to use Ki attacks. He'll have to pummel them to win. No self-destruct for the Androids

— Kuririn alone tools Gohan.
— Chaozu won't even need his physique techniques on this one. He kills the already-crippled Gohan with a dodonpa.
— After the humiliating defeat he received. Tao Pai Pai spends all money he saved from his assassination career to rebuild himself into a cyborg. He goes to find the kid who gives him the beating of his life, after finally finding him, he challenges him for a rematch and tells him he's much stronger than before. Goku begins to attack but unfortunately, Cyborg Tao casually blocks all of his attacks, and gives him a worse beating than he received.
— Trunks alone kills the two of them. Yakon is only about as strong as Base Goku (Who is weaker than Namek Freeza), while Pui Pui is far weaker than Base Vegeta. Trunks in his first appearance can even win this one.
— After Vegeta gives Semi-Cell a very hard beating that he spits out Android #17, Trunks decides to personally eliminate the three remaining Androids so the world will be at peace once again. Wanting to utterly defeat them, Trunks transforms into Super Saiyan Grade III. Checking Trunks' new power, Android #16 tells his fellow Androids that they are simply no match for them and just run away, trying to run, Trunks quickly speed-blitzes the trio and sends them back flying with a kiai. After handling them a good beating for a good while, Trunks notices that he's slower than he's suppose to, but still way more faster than the Androids. Not wanting the Androids to suffer anymore, Trunks sends all of them flying in the air and blows them to smitherens with the Heat-Dome Attack.

Equal power. Melee only.
Base Goku VS Final Form Freeza

Hard to say. Freeza is more durable, but Goku is more skilled. Either way, if Freeza is about to lose, he destroys the planet like he did in Revival of F.

21st Budokai Oozaru Goku vs Demon King Piccolo

According to power levels, this Goku should be reaching Raditz level, which hardly seems right. So I just disregard that and put these two on about the same level since the Water was implied to have unlocked kid Goku's Oozaru strength.

I agree with DanielSSJ on this one. Piccolo Daimao wins. A mindless brute like Oozaru Goku have a huge disadvantage against someone like Piccolo. Piccolo Daimao can dodge most of the big apes' attack due to being smaller, and have a really good aim to fire a strong Ki blast against someone huge.

[Zamasu55]

SS2 Vegeta. SS2 Trunks & SS2 Healthy Goku (Androids Saga) vs 16, 17 and 18.

The Saiyans.

[Angelus]

I love how there was a story behind the matches, Khin!

I started watching a few episodes of the King Piccolo saga again so it made me wonder, if they had cellphones back then and managed to gather up together at one place (at Baba's place) as a stand off against Tambourine, if the WMAT finalists had a chance against him.

Tambourine (no flying) VS King Chappa, Pamput, Nam, Ranfan (no stripping), Bacterian, Man-Wolf (human form), Giran, See-Through the Invisible Man, Fangs the Vampire, Bandages the Mummy, Spike the Devilman (no devilmite beam)

[TheUltimateNinja]

SSJ Teen Goku (Vs Jr) vs Nappa, Raditz and Vegeta

[Steven Bloodriver]

SSJ Teen Goku (Vs Jr) vs Nappa, Raditz and Vegeta

Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta all go to their new home for being infinite losers.

[DBZ Macky]

SSJ Teen Goku (Vs Jr) vs Nappa, Raditz and Vegeta

We have official numbers for Goku's Super Kamehameha. IIRC V-Jump or WSJ puts Son Goku at 910. This is likely to be the power of his Super Kamehameha. In the battle against Raditz, Goku's battle power rose from 416 to 924+ i.e. a 2.22x multiplier. Now, assuming that Goku didn't improve his KHH all that much in the 5 years gap, it should put Goku at ~400.
Now, applying the official 50x multiplier for SSJ,
Teen Goku (SSJ)= 400 x 50 = 20,000

That's enough to pulverize Raditz and Nappa. Even Vegeta won't last long due to Goku's superior battle power and his techniques. It's another matter if he decides to go Oozaru though.

[Khin]

I love how there was a story behind the matches, Khin!

I was inspired by supercat's posts in this thread back then, those are great. I also think coming up with interesting scenarios of what will happen if the characters in question fought makes the post more interesting to read. It also doesn't take much time to come up with such things.

[ZombieVito]

Tambourine (no flying) VS King Chappa, Pamput, Nam, Ranfan (no stripping), Bacterian, Man-Wolf (human form), Giran, See-Through the Invisible Man, Fangs the Vampire, Bandages the Mummy, Spike the Devilman (no devilmite beam)

They all die. Not even Chappa and Akkuman can stand up to him.

SSJ Teen Goku (Vs Jr) vs Nappa, Raditz and Vegeta

Going by my numbers Goku would be at 20,000. He kills his brother and Nappa easily and then has the fight of his life with Vegeta, beating him.

New fights:

Black [No SSR] vs SSJ3 Goku. Both from Episode 49. SSJ3 doesn't give strain and Black doesn't have his Zenkai hax.
Black [Just after getting Goku's body] vs SSJ2 Future Trunks [DBS]. Black doesn't have his Zenkai hax.
Gowasu vs Semi Perfect Cell.
SSJ Future Vegeta vs SSJ Goku [Freeza arc].
Mecha Freeza vs Dr. Gero [vs Piccolo]. Gero can't absorb energy anymore.
Kuririn [Android arc] vs Gohan [Post Dende Zenkai].
Piccolo [Boo arc] vs SSJ Future Trunks [Cell games arc].

[Steven Bloodriver]

1) SSJ4 Little Goku (GT)'s Universal Spirit Bomb vs. Goku Black.

2) SSJ4 Gogeta (Resurrection F)'s Stardust Breaker vs. Future Zamasu.

3) Masked Saiyan and Super Mira vs. Goku Black (after being brought back to the future).

4) Gine and Teen Chi-Chi vs. King Piccolo (Youth Restored).

5) Super Vegito (BoG) vs. SSJ3 Venyu (Captain Ginyu in GT Vegeta's Body) vs. Omega Shenron.

6) Super Buu (Golden Frieza and Super Perfect Cell Absorbed) vs. Majin Baby Janemba vs. Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta (Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection F).

7) Cell Games Super Saiyan Teen Gohan vs. Majin Buu Saga Super Saiyan Majin Vegeta vs. Super Saiyan Broly (Dragon Ball Z: Broly - Second Coming).

[TheUltimateNinja]

1) SSJ4 Little Goku (GT)'s Universal Spirit Bomb vs. Goku Black.

2) SSJ4 Gogeta (Resurrection F)'s Stardust Breaker vs. Future Zamasu.

3) Masked Saiyan and Super Mira vs. Goku Black (after being brought back to the future).

4) Gine and Teen Chi-Chi vs. King Piccolo (Youth Restored).

5) Super Vegito (BoG) vs. SSJ3 Venyu (Captain Ginyu in GT Vegeta's Body) vs. Omega Shenron.

6) Super Buu (Golden Frieza and Super Perfect Cell Absorbed) vs. Majin Baby Janemba vs. Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta (Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection F).

7) Cell Games Super Saiyan Teen Gohan vs. Majin Buu Saga Super Saiyan Majin Vegeta vs. Super Saiyan Broly (Dragon Ball Z: Broly - Second Coming).

1) If he's SSRose he survives with severe injury, if he's in any other form he gets killed.

2) Future Zamasu is decimated but his immortality revives him.

3) Goku Black wins easily.

4) King Piccolo wins with medium effort if they're normal, but gets destroyed if Gine goes Oozaru

5) Omega Shenron effortlessly solos.

6) SSB Gogeta effortlessly solos

7) If they're normal Majin Vegeta wins with high difficulty, if Gohan is rage boosted he destroys both of them.

[Roronoa-pt]

New fights:

Black [No SSR] vs SSJ3 Goku. Both from Episode 49. SSJ3 doesn't give strain and Black doesn't have his Zenkai hax.
Black [Just after getting Goku's body] vs SSJ2 Future Trunks [DBS]. Black doesn't have his Zenkai hax.
Gowasu vs Semi Perfect Cell.
SSJ Future Vegeta vs SSJ Goku [Freeza arc].
Mecha Freeza vs Dr. Gero [vs Piccolo]. Gero can't absorb energy anymore.
Kuririn [Android arc] vs Gohan [Post Dende Zenkai].
Piccolo [Boo arc] vs SSJ Future Trunks [Cell games arc].

Hard to say. Black wasn't even serious when he was fighting SSJ2 Goku and SSJ3 Goku defeated SSJ2 Trunks with one shot unlike Black who still had to sweat a bit to beat Trunks. If SSJ3 doesn't give strain, my money's on Goku.
SSJ2 Future Trunks appears to be on the same level as SSJ2 Goku. Trunks gets this, after a hard battle.
No way to tell how strong Gowasu really is.
Mecha Frieza stomps.
Kuririn trained a hell lot for the Androids, I'm sure he's stronger than Namek's Gohan.
Piccolo didn't improved much after the Cell Games but he actually did better against the Cell Juniors than Trunks did. Their power level should be similiar, Piccolo wins because he's more skilled.

[Roronoa-pt]

New fights:

Black [No SSR] vs SSJ3 Goku. Both from Episode 49. SSJ3 doesn't give strain and Black doesn't have his Zenkai hax.
Black [Just after getting Goku's body] vs SSJ2 Future Trunks [DBS]. Black doesn't have his Zenkai hax.
Gowasu vs Semi Perfect Cell.
SSJ Future Vegeta vs SSJ Goku [Freeza arc].
Mecha Freeza vs Dr. Gero [vs Piccolo]. Gero can't absorb energy anymore.
Kuririn [Android arc] vs Gohan [Post Dende Zenkai].
Piccolo [Boo arc] vs SSJ Future Trunks [Cell games arc].

Hard to say. Black wasn't even serious when he was fighting SSJ2 Goku and SSJ3 Goku defeated SSJ2 Trunks with one shot unlike Black who still had to sweat a bit to beat Trunks. If SSJ3 doesn't give strain, my money's on Goku.
SSJ2 Future Trunks appears to be on the same level as SSJ2 Goku. Trunks gets this, after a hard battle.
No way to tell how strong Gowasu really is.
Mecha Frieza stomps.
Kuririn trained a hell lot for the Androids, I'm sure he's stronger than Namek's Gohan.
Piccolo didn't improved much after the Cell Games but he actually did better than Trunks against the Cell Juniors, altough he was weaker. In the Buu saga, their power level should be similiar, Piccolo wins because he's more skilled.[/quote]

[TheUltimateNinja]

Tambourine (no flying) VS King Chappa, Pamput, Nam, Ranfan (no stripping), Bacterian, Man-Wolf (human form), Giran, See-Through the Invisible Man, Fangs the Vampire, Bandages the Mummy, Spike the Devilman (no devilmite beam)

They all die. Not even Chappa and Akkuman can stand up to him.

SSJ Teen Goku (Vs Jr) vs Nappa, Raditz and Vegeta

Going by my numbers Goku would be at 20,000. He kills his brother and Nappa easily and then has the fight of his life with Vegeta, beating him.

New fights:

Black [No SSR] vs SSJ3 Goku. Both from Episode 49. SSJ3 doesn't give strain and Black doesn't have his Zenkai hax.
Black [Just after getting Goku's body] vs SSJ2 Future Trunks [DBS]. Black doesn't have his Zenkai hax.
Gowasu vs Semi Perfect Cell.
SSJ Future Vegeta vs SSJ Goku [Freeza arc].
Mecha Freeza vs Dr. Gero [vs Piccolo]. Gero can't absorb energy anymore.
Kuririn [Android arc] vs Gohan [Post Dende Zenkai].
Piccolo [Boo arc] vs SSJ Future Trunks [Cell games arc].

1) Black gets destroyed

2) Black gets destroyed

3) Gowasu gets destroyed

4) Probably a draw or Vegeta wins after a very hard fight

5) Mecha Frieza crushes Gero.

6) Kuririn wins under normal circumstances, gets wrecked if Gohan is rage boosted.

7) Piccolo wins with medium difficulty.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Kaioken ChiChi vs Piccolo Daimao (Old)