DragonBall Z Abridged

[testing223]

Buu was so bad it almost ruined the rest of the franchise's development up to that point.

Hey, all those times they saved everyone's life? Buu made that pointless retroactively. Hey, Buu murdered the entire planet and you have him on the ropes? Yes, Gohan, this is a good time to stand there and listen to his requests.

I don't get it, mate. Could you elaborate more?

Are you being sarcastic? Sorry, English is not my first language.

If you are...why? Seems kind of rude.

If not, then :

Think of all the times that, say, Bulma was saved. From her first appearance being saved by Goku from the dinosaur to Gohan saving her on Namek from being crushed to Trunks saving her from Gero. All of those become retroactively meaningless since she dies utterly pointlessly off camera by Buu. And then, with the Dragonballs bringing her back anyways, and can do so indefinitely with the Namek boost, that means it's sort of pointless to have even tried to save her, or anyone, since Buu eventually wipes ALL of them out completely meaninglessly.

It is bad writing that actually removes the drama from the PREVIOUS writing.


As for Buu, yes, DB villains have always pulled out random abilities that allow them to keep fighting, that's Toriyama's style. But to actually have the villain, who already murdered all of humanity, to TALK his way into allowing his random ability to work and save his life, is utterly stupid. Like, it's actually out of character for Gohan to do this--when he let Cell live after blasting him, that was out of SSJ2 sadism and lust for battle. But Gohan just spent days focusing JUST so he could save humanity and crush the murderous monster...but decides, yes, this is the moment to let him talk (and thus become Buutenks).

Basically what I am saying that Toriyama was clearly burned out and just randomly throwing ideas out, even if they contradicted previous characterizations.

That's why I am looking forward to TFS's writing to fix the Buu saga's embarrassing flaws, and also once the DB saga movies are done (and the first season is touched up with their current expert talents), then finally, the entire Abridged Saga can be watched as the definitive version to introduce people to the series.[/quote]

Buu was so bad it almost ruined the rest of the franchise's development up to that point.

If Buu is that bad then what's GT and Super ?

The only solution to those is total denial. At least Buu has the benefit of being from Toriyama. And GT DID ruin the franchise, it killed any animation for a decade or however long it was.

[sintzu]

GT killed any animation for a decade.

I'd rather see it end with dignity over what's going on with it now.

[Danfun64]

Quality aside, I felt like the main reasons for limited DB content before at least the JSAT special was because

1. The franchise needed a break.
2. The final episode of GT was specifically made to allow closure.

Would you rather have seen DB completely run to the ground?

[sintzu]

Would you rather have seen DB completely run to the ground ?

If this is anything to go by then we'll see that happen sooner or later.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2016/10/14/sh ... e-content/

[Danfun64]

Even though I haven't seen Super yet, the moment stuff like the Super Dragon Balls and the Omni-King were created, the series has a wall which can't be raised higher. It it weren't for that Dragon Ball room announcement, I would have thought that the next step would either be a remake of the Shadow Dragons saga or exploration into the other dimensions, because defining the top of the food chain of the gods doesn't really allow the franchise to be extended.

If they really are going to try to create new DB content, at least let it be spin offs based off the different dimensions. Goku's story is almost over, if it isn't over already. Anything more would be beating a dead horse.

[Fionordequester]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but...rape jokes are not cool. Seriously. I don't care if it's a woman doing it to a man, it's still not cool. The end of Episode 55 crossed a line for me, because making a joke like that makes light of a very real issue; one that has gone undetected by the media BECAUSE of how humiliating it is for a lot of men to to try and explain how they were victimized by women.

EDIT: Let's be clear here; one of the reasons this offends me is because I know that this is a problem that isn't taken that seriously by our society. Men are stereotyped in a way that makes them less likely to be taken seriously when they try to explain how women sexually assaulted them; so until it starts being taken more seriously, joking about it will only perpetuate the problem.

[Nejishiki]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but...rape jokes are not cool. Seriously. I don't care if it's a woman doing it to a man, it's still not cool. The end of Episode 55 crossed a line for me, because making a joke like that makes light of a very real issue; one that has gone undetected by the media BECAUSE of how humiliating it is for a lot of men to to try and explain how they were victimized by women.

Goku wasn't raped, as confirmed by KaiserNeko.

[Fionordequester]

Goku wasn't raped, as confirmed by KaiserNeko.

...Then why did he spend the entire scene yelping in fear? It sounded like the kind of sound one would make when they're about to get their teeth knocked out by someone. Combine that with the scary music at the beginning, and...well, I don't think I was unreasonable to assume that that was what was happening.

[Nejishiki]

Well, that's how you read it, it seems. He also expressed signs that he enjoyed it. It was addressed that it was never meant to be portrayed that way after Twitter complaints. With the first viewing, I didn't think it was rape humor myself, for an anecdotal. It felt more like rough play. Obviously, the direction wasn't clear enough to avoid misunderstandings with everyone.

[Fionordequester]

Well, that's how you read it, it seems. He also expressed signs that he enjoyed it.

...When? Even when he was cumming, he still sounded like he was screaming in pain; guy sounded more like he got his leg broke rather than having an orgasm.

[FoolsGil]

Well, that's how you read it, it seems. He also expressed signs that he enjoyed it.

...When? Even when he was cumming, he still sounded like he was screaming in pain; guy sounded more like he got his leg broke rather than having an orgasm.

No offense but everyone here is talking like virgins. Yes, you can have orgasms so intense it hurts.

[Fionordequester]

No offense but everyone here is talking like virgins. Yes, you can have orgasms so intense it hurts.

Sure; women have even had orgasms while being raped in real life. One of the reasons recovering is so hard for them is because of the sense of shame they tend to suffer. They feel like there must be something wrong with them, because they have no idea why their bodies reacted like that to something they clearly did not want (when in actuality, that's just what their bodies were designed to do; regardless of consent).

Seriously, Goku having a Kamehameha-sized ejaculation is no indication of how much he enjoyed it; all it means is that Chi-Chi's really good at man-handling him.

[FoolsGil]

No offense but everyone here is talking like virgins. Yes, you can have orgasms so intense it hurts.

Sure; women have even had orgasms while being raped in real life. One of the reasons recovering is so hard for them is because of the sense of shame they tend to suffer. They feel like there must be something wrong with them, because they have no idea why their bodies reacted like that to something they clearly did not want (when in actuality, that's just what their bodies were designed to do; regardless of consent).

With all due respect...You're an idiot.

Look I'm sorry but no, I wasn't talking about rape! I don't even want to explain what I'm thinking about because I don't think you're old enough, or too sheltered. Not an idiot. Just virgin.

[Fionordequester]

With all due respect...You're an idiot.

I know you weren't talking about rape; my point is that orgasms happen even during rape. Goku cumming is not proof that it was consensual.

[Boo Machine]

Well, that's how you read it, it seems. He also expressed signs that he enjoyed it.

...When? Even when he was cumming, he still sounded like he was screaming in pain; guy sounded more like he got his leg broke rather than having an orgasm.

Not everyone Screams "yes, yes, Oh yes" when they're enjoying sex.

Also, call me unimaginative but, I don't see how else he could have sounded with that voice being the way it is, unless you just want to hear MasakoX get REALLY into the scene. It sounded goofy because that's a really goofy goku voice. I also don't think the Kamehameha is something you can do involuntarily . (this is a strange conversation.)

I also just can't take your side seriously when Goku has the power to throw chi chi into orbit.

The team has also expressed regret over doing an implied rape joke in the past. So I doubt they would do it again.

So I can't help but feel you're looking for an issue where there isn't one.

[Nejishiki]

As I said, misunderstanding from viewers was present. The Chi-Chi character in Dragon Ball Abridged did not force Goku into anything he wasn't willing to do. We're not marginalizing actual victims, but we are stating you can't compare the realities together. They aren't similar situations. We have the benefit of a writer to quell flexible interpretation, when necessary. The verdict for its intent, which you are free to criticize fairly, is established. There's nothing wrong with what you're standing for. Let's make it clear actual rape wouldn't be applauded for, if it were portrayed. The argument just doesn't apply here, in this specific instance.

[Fionordequester]

As I said, misunderstanding from viewers was present. The Chi-Chi character in Dragon Ball Abridged did not force Goku into anything he wasn't willing to do. We're not marginalizing actual victims, but we are stating you can't compare the realities together. They aren't similar situations. We have the benefit of a writer to quell flexible interpretation, when necessary. The verdict for its intent, which you are free to criticize fairly, is established. There's nothing wrong with what you're standing for. Let's make it clear actual rape wouldn't be applauded for, if it were portrayed. The argument just doesn't apply here, in this specific instance.

Well, I do appreciate your sympathy. I want to keep arguing Boo Machine's points, though; because I have a feeling he's buying into some commonly accepted myths about male rape, and I want to correct them.

It sounded goofy because that's a really goofy goku voice. I also don't think the Kamehameha is something you can do involuntarily . (this is a strange conversation.)

It is, actually:

It is thought among the public that a male must be aroused if he gets an erection or has an orgasm, and so that means that they are willing and enjoying any sexual activity. Roy J. Levin and Willy Van Berlo wrote in an article in the Journal of Clinical Forensic Medicine that slight genital stimulation or stress can create erections "even though no specific sexual stimulation is present." An erection does not mean that the men consent to sex. Males can get erections even in traumatic or painful sexual situations, and this does not indicate consent.

Much like female erectile response, male erectile response is involuntary, meaning that a man need not be aroused for his penis to become erect; mechanical stimulation is all that is necessary. Arousal and stimulation are distinct things. Stimulation is a physical response to a stimulus. Men can be physically stimulated without feeling aroused and thus causing an erection. Men can be scared and intimidated into an erection, especially if the person is older or an authority.

The "Kamehameha", as you call it, is very often involuntary; that's why wet dreams are a thing.

I also just can't take your side seriously when Goku has the power to throw chi chi into orbit.

She doesn't have to overpower him for it to count as rape; in fact, physical coercion is very often not the primary way women rape men.

Researcher Martin S. Fiebert published a meta-analysis of 40 studies in 2000 that had examined men and women's self-reports experiencing sexual coercion. Criteria for sexual coercion included verbal pressure, unwanted sexual contact, intoxication, threat, blackmail or physical force. From the 40 studies, 2 studies (Anderson P.B 1996, 1998) had reported the use of aggressive and coercive tactics against men for sex. Two other studies (Struckman-Johnson,C.1988. 1994) found men to be subjected to psychological pressure and forced into sexual experiences...Struckman Johnson (1991) also found majority of female coercive assaults against men involved psychological pressure. Overall studies indicated that both genders experienced some sort of sexual coercive behavior against them with men commonly experiencing coercive tactics such as psychological pressure, anger against them when refused (Rouse L.P 1988), physical molestation and less commonly physical force.

The team has also expressed regret over doing an implied rape joke in the past. So I doubt they would do it again. So I can't help but feel you're looking for an issue where there isn't one.

I'm sure they didn't; they're all nice people. Their offense was probably accidental; which is why I think it would be best for them to learn from it, rather than pretend that there's no problem.

[Boo Machine]

Well, I do appreciate your sympathy. I want to keep arguing Boo Machine's points, though; because I have a feeling he's buying into some commonly accepted myths about male rape, and I want to correct them.

The "Kamehameha", as you call it, is very often involuntary; that's why wet dreams are a thing.

I'm not buying into anything. I'm aware of these facts you have pointed out. When I say Kamehameha I meant the actual magic energy blast that comes from the palms that destroys mountains and peoples faces. Something I don't think would occur unless intended.

She doesn't have to overpower him for it to count as rape; in fact, physical coercion is very often not the primary way women rape men.

I don't think this show is going to get as heavy as implying the alternate ways you mentioned because...

I'm sure they didn't; they're all nice people. Their offense was probably accidental; which is why I think it would be best for them to learn from it, rather than pretend that there's no problem.

It sounds like you agree the "harm" wasn't intentional. Just a poorly handled joke. In which case it would have been better to express that rather than calling them out on being horrible. Because otherwise I agree that it obviously could have been handled better judging from the bit of backlash on twitter when the episode came out.

[Fionordequester]

It sounds like you agree the "harm" wasn't intentional. Just a poorly handled joke. In which case it would have been better to express that rather than calling them out on being horrible. Because otherwise I agree that it obviously could have been handled better judging from the bit of backlash on twitter when the episode came out.

I never said they were horrible. The quote I used was...

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but...rape jokes are not cool. Seriously. I don't care if it's a woman doing it to a man, it's still not cool. The end of Episode 55 crossed a line for me, because making a joke like that makes light of a very real issue; one that has gone undetected by the media BECAUSE of how humiliating it is for a lot of men to to try and explain how they were victimized by women.

I expressed strong dislike for the joke, but I never wished to insult them personally.

[KaiserNeko]

It's not a rape joke.

Chi-Chi is just an incredibly rough lover, and the scene was supposed to make it sound like something terrible was about to happen. Instead, it was rough sex that even Goku finds punishing. But he still is consenting 100%.