Dragonball Super has potential to become a legendary series as Z

[Hit!!]

Z gets a pass where Super doesn't because its worst animations are still decent compared to the worst of Super, as simple as that lol

Nope, you're distorting my argument. I wasn't talking about when you compare the worst of DBZ with the worst of Super, what i meant was that you can show people a bad animation sequence of Z and nobody is going to point it out, but if you show them an EQUALLY or slightly better animation sequence of Super, people will inmediately make comments such as "Super is shit", "aweful animation", "animation in Super sucks", etc. Even if the clip is actually not thaat bad, maybe even better than its Z counterpart.

People watch Super just waiting to see some bad animation to criticize it. Thats what Zamasu is trying to say.

Because most likely the animation is below average?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkV4xTpk8G8

Again, you are showing me the worst of the worst in Super after the ROF arc. The criticism there is 100% valid, that Goku vs Zamasu fight SUCKED big time. However, thats not the point of my comment.

What I'm calling out is the hypocrisy and the double standard of this community with Super when it is compared to DBZ. I repeat, you can show people two clips of animation of the SAME LEVEL OF QUALITY, one from DBZ and one from Super, and people will praise one and completely shatter the other.

Just people Super is worst than DBZ in terms of animation, doesn't mean DBZ should get a pass where Super doesn't. It could be freaking One Punch Man, and if an episode looks BAD, IT LOOKS BAD. Get it!!

[Hit!!]

I know some may think i'm a DBS fanboy because i'm always defending Super against unfair criticism, but even if this might surprise you, i'm actually a DBZ fan, always have been a DBZ fanboy since a little kid. Heck, I'm also a DB fanboy. But i won't let my love for DB and DBZ blind my judgement.

Some people here are holding DBZ to an unrealistically high standard. Yes it is better than Super, but some people here completely deify DBZ.

As for the original DB series, i think it's the best one out of all 4. Even though my favorite is still DBZ.

[zamasu121]

just reading the comments in this video reminds me why i dislike the community https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea_yW5lLUzc
''Original was better animated. New is better drawn'' this comment got 174 likes just take a minute to think about the fact that 174 liked that comment

and thats not all i remember there was a video of the actual fight comparison and people said they prefer dbz over the future trunks rof version

[PsionicWarrior]

The thing is Super couldn't AFFORD to start out bad. A sequel to Z is obviously a challenging task and the expectations were high, Toei botching so much the retellings was a really bad move lol

I don't think people WANT to hate Super, I think people want Super to get better or would have wished it to be something else, a little more in line with Z lol

Again Super clearly improved with the Black arc, but there is still much more to be done if it wants to top Z, as in everything post the Black arc must be even better from now on, not very likely IMO but not impossible either, I agree with the "wait and see" attitude ATM lol

you make some good points especially about goku but i don't see the problem with vegeta's character

Cheers well it's less present than with Goku but for instance him being Beerus's submissive dog was awfully wrong IMO lol

[PsionicWarrior]

just reading the comments in this video reminds me why i dislike the community https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea_yW5lLUzc
''Original was better animated. New is better drawn'' this comment got 174 likes just take a minute to think about the fact that 174 liked that comment

and thats not all i remember there was a video of the actual fight comparison and people said they prefer dbz over the future trunks rof version

Well I mean this is entirely subjective, both are good IMO lol
The original has a charm in the drawings the remake "corrects" and really whether you prefer one or the other at this point is purely taste, I can perfectly get some people consider it butchery even if from a objective and technical standpoint it looks good or arguably better than the original, I could still find it ugly and hate it with all my guts because the trait I liked is gone lol

Also 174 people is literally a drop in the ocean, if that was a majority of the whole fanbase Toei would have stopped production a long time ago lol

[Shuby]

People say Super has a story lmao.. What stories? Beers arc, Beers shows up, Goku becomes a God, Goku loses. Golden Freeza arc, Freeza is resurrected, Freeza gets a new form, Goku and Vegeta kick his ass. Champa arc, it's a tournament with no stakes. Copy Vegeta was absolute trash. The Future Trunks arc is the only arc that isn't just bad guy shows up and they fight (or a tournament) and can actually be called a story.

[zamasu121]

you make some good points especially about goku but i don't see the problem with vegeta's character

Cheers well it's less present than with Goku but for instance him being Beerus's submissive dog was awfully wrong IMO lol

tbh that really does not bother me compared to goku acting childish it also happened like once if I'm not mistaken so i see no problem vegeta actually got good character development while goku got character regression

just reading the comments in this video reminds me why i dislike the community https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea_yW5lLUzc
''Original was better animated. New is better drawn'' this comment got 174 likes just take a minute to think about the fact that 174 liked that comment

and thats not all i remember there was a video of the actual fight comparison and people said they prefer dbz over the future trunks rof version

Well I mean this is entirely subjective, both are good IMO lol
The original has a charm in the drawings the remake "corrects" and really whether you prefer one or the other at this point is purely taste, I can perfectly get some people consider it butchery even if from a objective and technical standpoint it looks good or arguably better than the original, I could still find it ugly and hate it with all my guts because the trait I liked is gone lol

Also 174 people is literally a drop in the ocean, if that was a majority of the whole fanbase Toei would have stopped production a long time ago lol

the transformation itself is much better in dbz there is no doubt its much more intense however the animation is clearly superior in the remake

[PsionicWarrior]

Champa arc, it's a tournament with no stakes

Hm there was actually a very huge stake for Beerus, he could have lost all the delicious food from earth after it's relocated in UE6 lol

tbh that really does not bother me compared to goku acting childish it also happened like once if I'm not mistaken so i see no problem vegeta actually got good character development while goku got character regression

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Sorry oculdn't resist.
Well yes Vegeta has settled down and all, in general I don't complain much, he was actually awesome in the UE6 tournament, but there is some silly stuff here and there similar to Goku's lines that the show would just be better off without lol
Also Goku acted childish in Z, he just acts stupid in Super lol

the transformation itself is much better in dbz there is no doubt its much more intense

Isn't that because the remake ignores the best frames at 0:57 lol

[Dez777]

Let's look at the Buu Saga...

The tournament had many fun and cool moments and set things up nicely with tons of mystery about character motives. Fighting through the levels of Babidi's ship were nice. Seeing our heroes amaze Shin constantly. Dabura is probably the most intimidating foe at first glance. Everything about Majin Vegeta is CLASSIC from the smile he gives after killing people in the stadium to the way Babidi could not fully control him to possibly the best fight in the arc: Majin Vegeta vs Goku!! Vegeta's sacrifice... Ultimate Gohan... Gotenks... Vegito... Kid Buu destroying planets with ease etc etc etc

ALLLLLLL GREAT THINGS TO WORK WITH AND LOOOOOADS OF POTENTIAL.... maybe more POTENTIAL than Cell and Frieza arc... But we all know the Buu Saga is regarded as the worst of the 3??? And it is..... because we know POTENTIAL does not make an arc great.

Be honest with yourself... the Future trunks arc isn't over... but if you're fan of this arc... do you really think you like what it ??... or what it could be?? Remember how we liked Baby's POTENTIAL?? Black Star Dragon Balls potential?? I'm sure 90% of us were into those arcs UNTIL after they were over and we were like "hmm... that was trash" I give you the opportunity to search your soul lol. Are you guilty of WANTING this to be good or is this panning out to be a good story arc?? A classic??

[PsionicWarrior]

Well to me personally the Buu arc is the best one, never got why people don't like it much lol

[Yomi]

Are you guilty of WANTING this to be good or is this panning out to be a good story arc?? A classic??

If you're a fan of the franchise, why WOULDN'T you want it to be good?
Besides, the introduction to those arcs were pretty slow.

Black first appeared as a shadow, in a tornado descending from the eye of a cyclone.
He touched down in a pillar of fire, and when trunks tried to clash with him he was pushed back by an explosion.
The Black arc started with a conflict and has had several climaxes already, and the true climax is yet to come.
Kind of reminds me of a DBZ arc. All these power up moments, all these fights lost.
And knowing what's coming up in the next 3 episodes. Some crazy stuff. It definitely isn't looking down.
That's why people are saying it has potential. There isn't a drop off, at least not one we can predict right now.

Except the Zeno button, and even then. Seeing the Omni-King in action would be a spectacle in itself.
My criticism would be that there needs to be some anticipation, like a regular plot formula but hey, whatever.

[Dez777]

Are you guilty of WANTING this to be good or is this panning out to be a good story arc?? A classic??

If you're a fan of the franchise, why WOULDN'T you want it to be good?
Besides, the introduction to those arcs were pretty slow.

Black first appeared as a shadow, in a tornado descending from the eye of a cyclone.
He touched down in a pillar of fire, and when trunks tried to clash with him he was pushed back by an explosion.
The Black arc started with a conflict and has had several climaxes already, and the true climax is yet to come.
Kind of reminds me of a DBZ arc. All these power up moments, all these fights lost.
And knowing what's coming up in the next 3 episodes. Some crazy stuff. It definitely isn't looking down.
That's why people are saying it has potential. There isn't a drop off, at least not one we can predict right now.

Except the Zeno button, and even then. Seeing the Omni-King in action would be a spectacle in itself.
My criticism would be that there needs to be some anticipation, like a regular plot formula but hey, whatever.

Well let's look at build up. We went through Vegeta Zarbon Dodoria and the Ginyu force preparing us for Frieza. Many epic battles and hearing Frieza's reputation. And Vegeta's dying story to Goku about the Saiyan race (top moment from the arc)... We went through 5 androids and 3 transformation before Perfect Cell. And Babidi Dabura and many henchmen before Buu..... what journey have we really gone through for Zamasu and ZAMASU?? (lol I'm not calling him Black just to remind folks how bad that reveal was)

No henchmen?? No mini threats?? (Like while anticipating Buu I still felt like Dabura was a threat). Just two guys who turn out to have the same mind and soul??? Is Goku and Vegeta going back and forth in time really build up??

[Hit!!]

Well let's look at build up. We went through Vegeta Zarbon Dodoria and the Ginyu force preparing us for Frieza. Many epic battles and hearing Frieza's reputation. And Vegeta's dying story to Goku about the Saiyan race (top moment from the arc)... We went through 5 androids and 3 transformation before Perfect Cell. And Babidi Dabura and many henchmen before Buu..... what journey have we really gone through for Zamasu and ZAMASU?? (lol I'm not calling him Black just to remind folks how bad that reveal was)

No henchmen?? No mini threats?? (Like while anticipating Buu I still felt like Dabura was a threat). Just two guys who turn out to have the same mind and soul??? Is Goku and Vegeta going back and forth in time really build up??

I'm not quite understanding your point. Are you suggesting the arc is bad because there are no henchmen??

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

(Not a Super hating post nor a bashing post, for Super apologists)

I don't think Super will ever be as good as Z, when you take both series as a whole into account (i.e. a legitimate argument can be made that the retellings of the movie weren't executed all that well, the art can tend to be off in a lot of places, etc etc). But that's not to say Super still can't be really good. It can be better than GT. It can be as good as the original Dragon Ball anime. But I don't think it can be as "legendary" as Z (not saying Z was perfect or flawless either). Not to mention Lord Beerus makes some very valid points about this day and age. The timing of Z's appearance was literally perfect. Thanks to the legacy of Z, expectations for shows that came after it like GT or Super were/are soaring high, and it is very difficult (not impossible, but still difficult) to meet such expectations (for instance, Episode I of Star Wars was soooo hyped up after the original trilogy of Star Wars, only to not meet expectations and the hype and be a disappointment for many that watched the original trilogy). I don't think Z had to face those expectations, as for many, it raised the bar higher after the original Dragon Ball anime was finished. Z raised the bar up so high that again, it's very hard to meet such expectations with this era, as more and more new anime shows are exploding and increasing at a high rate, but the number of good animators and artists don't multiply as nearly as fast, which can be an explanation as to why art can tend to suffer for current anime shows like Super and others. Z didn't have to face some of the challenges that Super faces, and not to mention, the element of surprise has also been reduced with social media always releasing spoilers on Super on a weekly basis. Not to mention Super wants to cater more to the younger generation (not saying that is a bad thing), so there are some from the older generation who'll never be consistently satisfied with Super and hang on to Z, and that's fine. Super definitely has its great moments that compare to Z, but as a whole, I don't think it has the potential to be as impactful as Z based on the situation Super is currently in with this day and age. But it still has potential to be a very good show.

[fadeddreams5]

Well let's look at build up. We went through Vegeta Zarbon Dodoria and the Ginyu force preparing us for Frieza. Many epic battles and hearing Frieza's reputation. And Vegeta's dying story to Goku about the Saiyan race (top moment from the arc)... We went through 5 androids and 3 transformation before Perfect Cell. And Babidi Dabura and many henchmen before Buu..... what journey have we really gone through for Zamasu and ZAMASU?? (lol I'm not calling him Black just to remind folks how bad that reveal was)

No henchmen?? No mini threats?? (Like while anticipating Buu I still felt like Dabura was a threat). Just two guys who turn out to have the same mind and soul??? Is Goku and Vegeta going back and forth in time really build up??

I'm not quite understanding your point. Are you suggesting the arc is bad because there are no henchmen??

He's saying the arc is bad because there's little build up to anything except, perhaps, Black's identity, which was anticlimactic and disappointing.

[sintzu]

Well let's look at build up. We went through Vegeta Zarbon Dodoria and the Ginyu force preparing us for Frieza. Many epic battles and hearing Frieza's reputation. And Vegeta's dying story to Goku about the Saiyan race (top moment from the arc)... We went through 5 androids and 3 transformation before Perfect Cell. And Babidi Dabura and many henchmen before Buu..... what journey have we really gone through for Zamasu and ZAMASU ??

No henchmen?? No mini threats?? (Like while anticipating Buu I still felt like Dabura was a threat). Just two guys who turn out to have the same mind and soul??? Is Goku and Vegeta going back and forth in time really build up??

This is a really good point, as good as its been there's not much going on compared to the original's arcs and even Baby's arc.

Are you guilty of WANTING this to be good or is this panning out to be a good story arc?? A classic??

It's been good compared to Super's other arcs but I'll wait till it's over before I decide where to put it compared to the other arcs in the franchise.

I don't think people WANT to hate Super, I think people want Super to get better or would have wished it to be something else, a little more in line with Z.

Of course not, the reason people criticize Super is because we hold DB and Toriyama to a high standerd and expect Super to live up to that.

[Miracles]

Dragonball Z will always be the Dragonball.
Freeza, Cell and Buu are too iconic!

[Cipher]

I don't think this is true for a number of reasons, first and foremost of which is that its characters don't feel like they're growing. You're nixing one of the most effective and memorable aspects of the original run right there, not to mention an element that aided the execution of each individual storyline, as climactic action accompanied drastic character growth in nearly every arc.

Second of which is, under Toei's execution, its over-reliance on homages to past material.

It's just too tame and too safe. Which is a weird thing to say about a series plotted by Toriyama and featuring an expressionless, adorable child as the highest god in existence. But that's precisely what makes Super so frustrating on a conceptual level, before you even get into its execution.

[Faisal Shourov]

Super being legendary as Z? Only reason Z is legendary because it's a pioneering anime. DBZ is from similar timeframe as Saint Seiya and Jojo yet only DBZ became popular since it aired on Toonami during the hours when kids watched TV

Super is just leeching off DBZ's reputation, it has nothing on the good anime of 00s and this decade. Will Super be popular without Dragon Ball name? Hell no. Black Arc is half decent but there's nothing legendary about it. The powerscaling is destroyed completely along with any logic

[dbs fanboy]

Lol, i was here chilling trying to find new different opinions about this topic and what i find is a youtube- like mini war with people calling each other haters or apologists