DragonBall Z Abridged

[Fionordequester]

It's not a rape joke.

Chi-Chi is just an incredibly rough lover, and the scene was supposed to make it sound like something terrible was about to happen. Instead, it was rough sex that even Goku finds punishing. But he still is consenting 100%.

Ah. I guess it seemed just a little too similar to something that would be sexually coercive; especially BECAUSE the scene made it sound like something terrible was about to happen.

[Soppa Saia People]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but...rape jokes are not cool. Seriously. I don't care if it's a woman doing it to a man, it's still not cool. The end of Episode 55 crossed a line for me, because making a joke like that makes light of a very real issue; one that has gone undetected by the media BECAUSE of how humiliating it is for a lot of men to to try and explain how they were victimized by women.

EDIT: Let's be clear here; one of the reasons this offends me is because I know that this is a problem that isn't taken that seriously by our society. Men are stereotyped in a way that makes them less likely to be taken seriously when they try to explain how women sexually assaulted them; so until it starts being taken more seriously, joking about it will only perpetuate the problem.

Meh, I think it depends on the timing and context.

[Danfun64]

To me the whole Goku Chi Chi sex stuff is borderline. True, Goku did give consent to having Goten, but that doesn't mean he necessarily liked doing the deed. To me he sounded positively terrified when he was having sex. Also remember in the new version of World's Strongest, when fighting "Blub-Blub/The Bouncy Butcher", he is grossed out by the "moistness", but decides that in order to defeat this foe he has to go through him, "just like with Chi-Chi". Combined with all the references to Chi-Chi's sex life in earlier episodes/specials/movies of DBZ Abridged, as well as those in Goku's Gonna Show You and GoQ&A, the result should have been heavily foreshadowed.

I'm not sure Goku, at least I'm the TFS incarnation, is fully capable of understanding the joy of sex (pun not intended), but he knows it makes Chi-Chi happy, and as cruel as Chi-Chi can be at times, I'm sure she has lines drawn in the sand which she refuses to cross.

Could Chi-Chi actually rape Goku if she wanted to? Somehow I don't think even the TFS incarnation of Goku would put up with that...

[Fizzer]

Chi Chi couldn't possible rape Goku if rape is defined in a very narrow way requiring the victim to be physically resisting with all their strength, but it's not that simple.

After the joke has been explained, as "it wasn't something terrifying, just rough Chi Chi sex that would destroy most men", it's a lot better. In the current culture though, people are hyper-aware and hyper-sensitive about anything that might imply rape, and it seems like that's where most people's minds (incorrectly) went. Goku's largely been portrayed as so innocent and naive that a lot of us jumped to "he doesn't want to have sex with her" rather than "he does want to have sex with her, but she's terrifyingly rough" which is kind of a reversal of what quite a few people have speculated about Goten's conception, Goku being in Super Saiyan form and all. Thinking back to "that thing you do with your mouth" in one of the movies, it does work, but if TFS didn't want people to confuse it with rape I think the scene could have been differently, accounting for the current climate around that sort of thing.

[TonyTheTiger]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Dbzfan94]

And now we have people thinking Chi-Chi raped Goku in canon to have Gohan and Goten

[FoolsGil]

This is why we can't have nice things.

Aint that the truth.

[rereboy]

but if TFS didn't want people to confuse it with rape I think the scene could have been differently, accounting for the current climate around that sort of thing.

No way. If people can't take humor, that's their problem. The moment humor backs away from "offended people", everyone loses.

[Fionordequester]

No way. If people can't take humor, that's their problem. The moment humor backs away from "offended people", everyone loses.

I agree with this actually; I hate how hyper PC things are in America right now, and I think trying to shield our children from everything under the sun will only stunt them in the long term.

So let me ask you this; have I been KNOWN to always be complaining? Have I been known to harass Kaiser and co. about some of the jokes they make? Did I complain when Bulma had a rape nightmare on Namek? Did I say anything when it turned out that Professor Briefs was literally making sex clones of Bulma's mother in a lab? Was I causing an uproar when one of Tulles's men talked about how he raped Rudolf? Was I freaking out when Zarbon exclaimed "Imma RAPE ya, BITCH!!"? And did I protest to the rapey undertones that were inserted into the scene of Dr. Zero sucking Piccolo dry, or Semi-Perfect Cell attempting to absorb #18?

No I did not. I found these jokes utterly distasteful, but I also knew that they were ultimately harmless. I didn't believe there were any socio-cultural issues being made worse by them.

This is not the case with this joke. I've almost achieved my Bachelor's in Psychology; so TRUST me when I say that scenes like those present at the end of this episode WILL reinforce some of the stereotypes of anyone who believes "oh, Goku's not being raped, that's impossible; he's a man, and she's a woman! How could THAT be possible?"

This isn't a matter of what's PC, and I hope you all are clear on that.

[Fizzer]

but if TFS didn't want people to confuse it with rape I think the scene could have been differently, accounting for the current climate around that sort of thing.

No way. If people can't take humor, that's their problem. The moment humor backs away from "offended people", everyone loses.

That's not quite what I meant. If someone wants to make a rape joke, that's fine. What I mean is that it wasn't actually a rape joke, but could very easily be mistaken for one.

[rereboy]

That's not quite what I meant. If someone wants to make a rape joke, that's fine. What I mean is that it wasn't actually a rape joke, but could very easily be mistaken for one.

It's the same thing. Misinterpretation or offense, humor shouldn't back away just because they may happen. It's their problem, not the humor's problem.

This is not the case with this joke. I've almost achieved my Bachelor's in Psychology; so TRUST me when I say that scenes like those present at the end of this episode WILL reinforce some of the stereotypes of anyone who believes "oh, Goku's not being raped, that's impossible; he's a man, and she's a woman! How could THAT be possible?"

The humor on this joke is partly based on stereotypes, yes. Like I've commented before, the joke wouldn't work if the genders were reversed because it bases itself on the pre-existing conceptions and stereotypes about gender.

And... so what? It's a joke. Basically, by definition, it's not a serious proposition. By not being serious and by using a stereotype, it's not endorsing a serious proposition based on what it presents, rather it just acknowledges the existence of the stereotype and tries to make humor out of it.

Once again, if people take a joke like this to be remotely serious, as in something that can actually be applicable in a real, serious situation, like an actual real human relationship, it's nothing else but their problem, just like it would be their problem if they actually thought that a joke containing a stereotype about a french man is serious and applicable to a real, specific, french man. It's not the humor that should be attacked, it's the mentality of people who don't really separate a joke from reality. That's the real issue and scrutinizing humor itself instead of that wouldn't actually accomplish anything.

[Noah]

Think of all the times that, say, Bulma was saved. From her first appearance being saved by Goku from the dinosaur to Gohan saving her on Namek from being crushed to Trunks saving her from Gero. All of those become retroactively meaningless since she dies utterly pointlessly off camera by Buu. And then, with the Dragonballs bringing her back anyways, and can do so indefinitely with the Namek boost, that means it's sort of pointless to have even tried to save her, or anyone, since Buu eventually wipes ALL of them out completely meaninglessly.

It is bad writing that actually removes the drama from the PREVIOUS writing.


As for Buu, yes, DB villains have always pulled out random abilities that allow them to keep fighting, that's Toriyama's style. But to actually have the villain, who already murdered all of humanity, to TALK his way into allowing his random ability to work and save his life, is utterly stupid. Like, it's actually out of character for Gohan to do this--when he let Cell live after blasting him, that was out of SSJ2 sadism and lust for battle. But Gohan just spent days focusing JUST so he could save humanity and crush the murderous monster...but decides, yes, this is the moment to let him talk (and thus become Buutenks).

Basically what I am saying that Toriyama was clearly burned out and just randomly throwing ideas out, even if they contradicted previous characterizations.

That's why I am looking forward to TFS's writing to fix the Buu saga's embarrassing flaws, and also once the DB saga movies are done (and the first season is touched up with their current expert talents), then finally, the entire Abridged Saga can be watched as the definitive version to introduce people to the series.

I wasn't being sarcastic, you do have a good point (Bulma's death), but I'd disagree with the part that they shouldn't have even tried to save her, it's not because she can be revived that her friends would let her be killed.

I don't see the problem with Boo managing to fool Gohan, yes I agree it was a reckless attitude to not just finish him before he could have a chance do something, he was naive and when it comes to fighting Gohan doesn't seem kind smart, he fails in most basic stuff we later in his fight with Boo-tenks

I also think you're exaggerating about DBZ Abridged, people main say it's DBZ with better writting, I'm okay with that, but it is just a parody with purpose to entertain fans, I don't see like a definitive version or something, even though I do enjoy a lot

[miguelnuva1]

So I guess the Goku was raped club forgot about the special mouth present Goku wanted to happen in Christmas tree of might.

As for Popo I would love for him to be the one that Beerus really wanted on his team vs Champa as the strongest fight he had. TFS can leave it ambiguous to who is the strongest as my brother and I came up with something like this.

Beerus: Be on my team or I'll destroy you.

Popo: Do you really want to take that chance?

Beerus: I'll just use Goku and Vegeta.

[Kanassa]

So I guess the Goku was raped club forgot about the special mouth present Goku wanted to happen in Christmas tree of might.

As for Popo I would love for him to be the one that Beerus really wanted on his team vs Champa as the strongest fight he had. TFS can leave it ambiguous to who is the strongest as my brother and I came up with something like this.

Beerus: Be on my team or I'll destroy you.

Popo: Do you really want to take that chance?

Beerus: I'll just use Goku and Vegeta.

I think the funnier joke would be for Popo to finally be usurped.

Beerus; Ah... The Popo. I've heard about you.
Popo; Oh, and who are you magg-
Beerus: *Finger Flick* The new pecking order.

[Fionordequester]

So I guess the Goku was raped club forgot about the special mouth present Goku wanted to happen in Christmas tree of might.

...How does that tie into it? KaiserNeko explained himself, yeah, but I'm not sure why you're presenting that as evidence. Not unless you buy into the myth that men ALWAYS want sex 24/7...

[Noah]

Not unless you buy into the myth that men ALWAYS want sex 24/7...

How is that a myth?

[Fionordequester]

How is that a myth?

Because it's not correct. Men DO generally have higher sex drives than women (due to a higher amount of testosterone), but we're not walking vibrators. There are times we don't feel like doing anything; so Goku exhibiting a sex drive on one occasion does not automatically prove that what happened on Episode 62 was consensual.

Only KaiserNeko's say-so accomplished that.

[Noah]

Because it's not correct. Men DO generally have higher sex drives than women (due to a higher amount of testosterone), but we're not walking vibrators. There are times we don't feel like doing anything; so Goku exhibiting a sex drive on one occasion does not automatically prove that what happened on Episode 62 was consensual.

Only KaiserNeko's say-so accomplished that.

Yes, just after having sex

And I guess you meant Episode 55, anyway... I think it was consensual, Goku was just impressed by Chichi's ferocity

[Dbzfan94]

That's why I am looking forward to TFS's writing to fix the Buu saga's embarrassing flaws, and also once the DB saga movies are done (and the first season is touched up with their current expert talents), then finally, the entire Abridged Saga can be watched as the definitive version to introduce people to the series.

I find this to be a gross exaggeration, almost insulting to Toriyama and Toei.

Also, GT did no more damage than Super has done to a lot of people

[simtek34]

Okay, even though I'm not a Mod... ENOUGH SEX TALK! We are here to talk about DB Abridged. Not sex, Not Pokémon Nuzlocke. If you want to do that make a separate thread or ask Kaiser to change the thread to "TeamFourStar and Dragonball Z Abridged." then you can talk about all of this.