"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Grimlock]

But Universe 12 isn't linked to Universe 10 either. I think a Time Ring is created in every Universe so that Kaioshins are able to access a timeline from its respective Universe to check or... Wait, why would a Kaioshin use a Time Ring of another Universe? Can he interfere in other Universes like apparently Hakaishins can?

[ryou766]

Make up your mind is it probable or unlikely? You do know those words are exact opposite right?

I'm saying it as it is - it's both probable and unlikely. No shit the meaning are different.

He got to the stage where he was willing to act on his feelings. That is definitely development because by the end because he was no longer willing to ask Gowasu and his tea wasnt murky anymore which signified he had a clear mind.

No, his mind wasn't polished. Zamasu was a good manipulator as seen when he lied to Gowasu about changing his philosophies about humans when in the end, he didn't.

[Esfír Dedragón]

Toyotaro should have never mentioned that the first instance of time travel was some mortal from U12.

I find that totally superfluous to the point that it doesn't even amaze me. Too many questions as to the nature of every universe and timeline in existence are brought up. Why can't they just keep it simple... like Toriyama (irony?)?

I still find issue with the "time paradox" that the anime made but I suppose I like the idea of Zamasu from the main timeline never having met Goku. At least Toyotaro is (hopefully) aware of the absurdity(impossibility?) of the paradox and wanted to write a more plausible situation.

However, it still doesn't answer the question as to how Goku Black (whether or not it's Zamasu from an alternate(?) timeline(?)) could have known about Goku. There never was a U6 vs. U7 tournament in Future Trunks's timeline in the same manner as in the Main Timeline.

We'll see what Toyotaro comes up with.

[kinisking]

Make up your mind is it probable or unlikely? You do know those words are exact opposite right?

I'm saying it as it is - it's both probable and unlikely. No shit the meaning are different.

He got to the stage where he was willing to act on his feelings. That is definitely development because by the end because he was no longer willing to ask Gowasu and his tea wasnt murky anymore which signified he had a clear mind.

No, his mind wasn't polished. Zamasu was a good manipulator as seen when he lied to Gowasu about changing his philosophies about humans when in the end, he didn't.

Probable literally means likely. You're literally saying something is likely but also very unlikely. That makes no sense.

I remember what you're referencing but I don't remember the exact line. However, what Zamasu said wasn't a lie from what I remember. It was something that could be been taken both ways.

[Noah]

Nice call back, Toyotaro. It's those finer details that just make the manga so damn good.

Wasn't an hide and seek game?

Honestly, who gives a shit about eoz? It doesn't make sense anyways. And in super you slowly see him care more about the situation as it goes on

What? Are you for real? Of course a lot of people cares about EoZ! Is not like some movies or average anime series would change that, is the last chapter of the manga, the ending of the original work for god's sake! If EoZ is retconned it will lead to contractions, thus making Super non-canon

[nite_jay]

Nice call back, Toyotaro. It's those finer details that just make the manga so damn good.

Wasn't an hide and seek game?

Honestly, who gives a shit about eoz? It doesn't make sense anyways. And in super you slowly see him care more about the situation as it goes on

What? Are you for real? Of course a lot of people cares about EoZ! Is not like some movies or average anime series would change that, is the last chapter of the manga, the ending of the original work for god's sake! If EoZ is retconned it will lead to contractions, thus making Super non-canon

What contradictions would it lead to exactly?

[Noah]

What contradictions would it lead to exactly?

It could be anything just by changing the way EoZ is presented in the manga

[ryou766]

Probable literally means likely. You're literally saying something is likely but also very unlikely. That makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. On one hand, it's possible that Zamasu changed his views for that brief moment but on the other hand, it's unlikely because of how devoted he was to his beliefs and not even Gowasu's words could persuade him.

I remember what you're referencing but I don't remember the exact line. However, what Zamasu said wasn't a lie from what I remember. It was something that could be been taken both ways.

Yes, it was a lie. He told Gowasu that he was right along and that humans should be given a second chance, but we then see in his subconscious that he still stood true to how he felt and he wasn't going to change any time soon.

[shadowfox87]

Recent chapter proves yet again why the manga is better than the anime. The Go-Kart thing was sooo funny and refreshing. It reminds me of Toriyama's humor. All time paradoxes have an initial trigger that started them - an origin point. We know that the original Zamasu in the current timeline watched GodTube and started hating Goku. He learned about Goku from the East Kaioshin after his fight with Kibito that Goku defeated Buu. This is the timeline where Future Trunks never arrived and Goku never fought Zamasu. This is the original Zamasu that became Black after killing Gowasu, stealing the time ring and potara, wishing to switch bodies with Goku, killing Chi Chi and Goten. (This Goku did not know who Zamasu was and never met him.)

Thus, this Zamasu became Black and then used the time ring to travel to the future to Future Trunks' timeline because in that timeline, Beerus was dead since Babidi killed the East Kaioshin. There was no threat of Beerus so Black then helped his future-self get rid of Gowasu a second time. The future Zamasu then wished for immortality because Goku did not exist in this timeline. Then they teamed up killing the Kaioshins of each universe so that there would be no Gods of Destruction to stand in their way. Lastly, they came to Earth to destroy humans and the last Saiyan - Trunks.This led to Future Trunks going back in time and THEN the time paradox starts which led to Goku fighting Zamasu and then Zamasu doing the events he did.

So Universe 12 also has technology that allows them to time travel. It might be the closest to a civilization like Earth's with advanced technology. The Dragon Ball Universe is expanding a lot now with the increasing popularity. Even after the Black arc and the Omniversal Tournament, there's so much potential to explore different stories in different universes and characters. They will also have a better team writing the story and deciding the choreography for fights. I can't wait.

[Sandubadear]

Toyotaro should have never mentioned that the first instance of time travel was some mortal from U12.

I find that totally superfluous to the point that it doesn't even amaze me. Too many questions as to the nature of every universe and timeline in existence are brought up. Why can't they just keep it simple... like Toriyama (irony?)?

I like it because this way it's definitely spelled out so people will understand that timeline splits all universes. Time and space are not connected.

I still find issue with the "time paradox" that the anime made but I suppose I like the idea of Zamasu from the main timeline never having met Goku. At least Toyotaro is (hopefully) aware of the absurdity(impossibility?) of the paradox and wanted to write a more plausible situation.

However, it still doesn't answer the question as to how Goku Black (whether or not it's Zamasu from an alternate(?) timeline(?)) could have known about Goku. There never was a U6 vs. U7 tournament in Future Trunks's timeline in the same manner as in the Main Timeline.

We'll see what Toyotaro comes up with.

Goku Black is not the Zamasu from Trunks' timeline. That is Immortal Zamasu. Goku Black came from a timeline where the U6 tournament happened, changed bodies with Goku and then he traveled to Trunks' timeline, where he met that timeline's Zamasu, who never changed bodies because Goku is dead and the tournament never happened.

[Miracles]

Recent chapter proves yet again why the manga is better than the anime. The Go-Kart thing was sooo funny and refreshing. It reminds me of Toriyama's humor. All time paradoxes have an initial trigger that started them - an origin point. We know that the original Zamasu in the current timeline watched GodTube and started hating Goku. He learned about Goku from the East Kaioshin after his fight with Kibito that Goku defeated Buu. This is the timeline where Future Trunks never arrived and Goku never fought Zamasu. This is the original Zamasu that became Black after killing Gowasu, stealing the time ring and potara, wishing to switch bodies with Goku, killing Chi Chi and Goten. (This Goku did not know who Zamasu was and never met him.)

Thus, this Zamasu became Black and then used the time ring to travel to the future to Future Trunks' timeline because in that timeline, Beerus was dead since Babidi killed the East Kaioshin. There was no threat of Beerus so Black then helped his future-self get rid of Gowasu a second time. The future Zamasu then wished for immortality because Goku did not exist in this timeline. Then they teamed up killing the Kaioshins of each universe so that there would be no Gods of Destruction to stand in their way. Lastly, they came to Earth to destroy humans and the last Saiyan - Trunks.This led to Future Trunks going back in time and THEN the time paradox starts which led to Goku fighting Zamasu and then Zamasu doing the events he did.

So Universe 12 also has technology that allows them to time travel. It might be the closest to a civilization like Earth's with advanced technology. The Dragon Ball Universe is expanding a lot now with the increasing popularity. Even after the Black arc and the Omniversal Tournament, there's so much potential to explore different stories in different universes and characters. They will also have a better team writing the story and deciding the choreography for fights. I can't wait.

Thanks for the explanation.
I just love how Akira Toriyama has the manga and anime substantiate each other.
Looks like a good chapter.

[sailorspazz]

Zamasu becoming obsessed about Goku just because of Godtube isn't convincing at all, either. The manga has been so far hugely inferior to the anime this arc. Even Goku Black wouldn't be as popular if we just had the manga, with the much smaller exposition he has been getting.

I agree that if he chooses to steal Gokuu's body just from hearing about him and seeing him on GodTube it would be very disappointing. I couldn't accept if he became obsessed with him to that degree if they never actually meet (though the manga could still have them meet in a future chapter...who knows?) I'd rather see a satisfying buildup to that than trying to avoid setting up the causality paradox that exists in the anime, which is what appears to be happening.

I'm also bugged by the way Toyotarou draws Zamasu at times. Looks too...meaty? Manly? I don't know, there are some panels where his look just seems off to me. I prefer the way he looks a bit more androgynous in the anime (though with varying art quality in the show, he doesn't always look the same there, either).

Overall, I like the manga just fine, and there are details and such that make it interesting, but I definitely don't prefer it over the anime.

[dbgtFO]

I'm also bugged by the way Toyotarou draws Zamasu at times. Looks too...meaty? Manly? I don't know, there are some panels where his look just seems off to me. I prefer the way he looks a bit more androgynous in the anime (though with varying art quality in the show, he doesn't always look the same there, either).

Those are exactly my thoughts
His Zamasu has really looked all kinds of weird, even in the previous chapter too!

[ssj_duelist]

Wow, the manga has become so much better than the anime now. The lack of time paradox, no plotholes, less convoluted writing.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

What contradictions with EoZ? The anime is a mess (like it has always been), but the manga is consistent with everything in EoZ so far. Base Goku is at regular levels, Gohan hasn't lost Ultimate, Bra isn't supposed to be born yet, and Goku & Bulma haven't met within the five years before EoZ.

[dbgtFO]

It goes without saying that this Universe 12 tidbit must be something that will elaborated on later on, perhaps not in this arc though.
In any case ignoring the whole deal with Trunks and Cell's time travelling apparently only creating 1 or 2 new timelines(?), the fact that Gowasu is surprised there's a new time ring, may just allude to Trunks' recent travel to the main timeline, which would turn out to imply that the main timeline we are following currently is another created parallel world and the main timeline from before is where Black came from.
I really hope that's the case, but that would just give me another reason to be dissatisfied with the anime's writing. In any case at this rate, this arc will first be over by March, lol. But it's worth it.

[Pannaliciour]

Toyotaro should have never mentioned that the first instance of time travel was some mortal from U12.

I find that totally superfluous to the point that it doesn't even amaze me. Too many questions as to the nature of every universe and timeline in existence are brought up. Why can't they just keep it simple... like Toriyama (irony?)?

I still find issue with the "time paradox" that the anime made but I suppose I like the idea of Zamasu from the main timeline never having met Goku. At least Toyotaro is (hopefully) aware of the absurdity(impossibility?) of the paradox and wanted to write a more plausible situation.

However, it still doesn't answer the question as to how Goku Black (whether or not it's Zamasu from an alternate(?) timeline(?)) could have known about Goku. There never was a U6 vs. U7 tournament in Future Trunks's timeline in the same manner as in the Main Timeline.

We'll see what Toyotaro comes up with.

Hmm can't follow that exactly. In the Manga they showed Zamasu watching the tournament via godtube. This Zamasu collect the super dragon balls and switches body with Goku and goes to the future to meet future Zamasu. Its not necessary to have a u6 vs u7 in the future. Or did I mis something?

I can't understand why he has so many hate against Goku just by hearing about him and watch him by godtube.

[Will]

But Universe 12 isn't linked to Universe 10 either. I think a Time Ring is created in every Universe so that Kaioshins are able to access a timeline from its respective Universe to check or... Wait, why would a Kaioshin use a Time Ring of another Universe? Can he interfere in other Universes like apparently Hakaishins can?

Timeline splits affect all the 12 universes.

Kaioshin can teleport in every universe with Kai Kai, like the fight between Kibito vs Zamasu.

[Alruneia]

Bra isn't supposed to be born yet, and Goku & Bulma haven't met within the five years before EoZ.

Weeeell...
It can be argued where we are in the timeline, but because of Pan and Resurrection F (and their order of appearance), there's no doubt that the five years line is already out. Like I've mentioned before, though, even GT ignored that line, so it's really not all that important. As for Bulla, no, she doesn't need to be born yet. I still believe we're early in Age 780, like January or February or something, so no problem there. But if Vegeta and Bulma don't do anything about it soon (after this arc is over is the perfect opportunity! In fact, after this arc is over is a good opportunity for plenty of things) there will be problems.

[Noah]

What contradictions with EoZ? The anime is a mess (like it has always been), but the manga is consistent with everything in EoZ so far. Base Goku is at regular levels, Gohan hasn't lost Ultimate, Bra isn't supposed to be born yet, and Goku & Bulma haven't met within the five years before EoZ.

"10 peaceful years" is already a contradiction, the last time Bulma saw Goku "5 years ago" may be one more foward, Bra should already be born, if they forgot her, then we can put this discussion to rest.

And the arguable "Goku still having interest in Oob, having met the most powerful beings of the whole existence"

There's too much to be explained