Goku Black should have been his own character

[DragonBallFoodie]

It reflects on Zamasu's status as a villain and a hypocrite that he would steal the body of the strongest mortal and use its power to annihalate mortals across Earth. But in a sense, I think it is a little disappointing since it means Black Goku is not really his own character and thus not a proper counterpart to Goku.

Consider Goku's history: he is a member of a race of fierce and relentless warriors, and was sent to Earth in an attempt to conquer it. But when he crashed, he received a head injury that took away his mean nature but not his fighting desire/ability. He is the only pure Saiyan in the series; Vegeta became good but retained his pride and arrogance, Raditz and Nappa were bad to their ends, Bardock served Frieza for most of his life, and we don't know too much about Tarble or the other Saiyans but I'm guessing they didn't really step up to do good.

Black Goku should represent what Goku would be if he hadn't gotten that bump on the head. Or, the idea comes to me, Black Goku should be what would have occurred if Goku had become a God of Destruction (Beerus made him an offer in Battle of Gods, which he'd declined).

He should be the pinnacle of Saiyan brutality and efficiency, with no stopping or any room for kindness or mercy. He should be a dark counterpart like Venom and Spider-Man and Bizarro and Superman, and not a body being puppeted by someone. That's how I see it.

[Thanos]

I would've much preferred it actually being Goku, and that he had become as evil as Goku Black is through various circumstances that would lead him to that point (maybe some long, drawn-out tragedy thing). Or, even better, the theory that it was an orphaned Goten that Zamasu corrupted or something. One of the great disappointments of the arc and for the character was the saw-it-coming revelation that he's just Zamasu with Goku's body. Instantly the mystique and intrigue of the character more or less vanished.

[ekrolo2]

I would've much preferred it actually being Goku, and that he had become as evil as Goku Black is through various circumstances that would lead him to that point (maybe some long, drawn-out tragedy thing). Or, even better, the theory that it was an orphaned Goten that Zamasu corrupted or something. One of the great disappointments of the arc and for the character was the saw-it-coming revelation that he's just Zamasu with Goku's body. Instantly the mystique and intrigue of the character more or less vanished.

The problem with this is that Goku has no depth as a character of any description, he's just a fighting junkie and this very simplistic view of the world makes trying to write him as anything close to Black really, really difficult. The closest we've come to an evil Goku who could happen within the parameters of Goku's character was Perfect Cell, a fighting junkie wasn't afraid of killing/torturing people to draw out strong fighters.

[Doctor.]

I think it works. He's a hypocrite but characters have actually called him out on that (asking him about the part of killing Gods) and he doesn't seem to care. He's the kind of character that will do anything to achieve what he wants. So it's not like Baby, where he's a hypocrite, but nobody seems to notice it and ever calls him out on that fact. Black doesn't care if he's one as long as the results end up as he wants. Or I guess you could even say that due to his mind being that of a God, he considers his body Godly too.

Black is his own character. Due to merging Zamasu's mind with Goku's body, he has now some of Goku's personality traits as we've seen before. Not very prominent, but they're there, and that separates Black from present and future Zamasu.

The idea of an evil Kakarotto is too overdone at this point. I don't think Super would bring anything new to the table unless Black ended up being just as goofy as regular Goku but with evil intentions. And though that would probably result in an entertaining villain and arc, I doubt it would have been as good as this one.

[ekrolo2]

I think it works. He's a hypocrite but characters have actually called him out on that (asking him about the part of killing Gods) and he doesn't seem to care. He's the kind of character that will do anything to achieve what he wants. So it's not like Baby, where he's a hypocrite, but nobody seems to notice it and ever calls him out on that fact. Black doesn't care if he's one as long as the results end up as he wants. Or I guess you could even say that due to his mind being that of a God, he considers his body Godly too.

Black is his own character. Due to merging Zamasu's mind with Goku's body, he has now some of Goku's personality traits as we've seen before. Not very prominent, but they're there, and that separates Black from present and future Zamasu.

The idea of an evil Kakarotto is too overdone at this point. I don't think Super would bring anything new to the table unless Black ended up being just as goofy as regular Goku but with evil intentions. And though that would probably result in an entertaining villain and arc, I doubt it would have been as good as this one.

The reason Black gets treated as a separate character I think is because we get to know him as Zamasu for a good chunk of time and it even looked like Black was just a grunt working for him until the reveal.

[Doctor.]

The reason Black gets treated as a separate character I think is because we get to know him as Zamasu for a good chunk of time and it even looked like Black was just a grunt working for him until the reveal.

Black does seem to have some exclusive traits to Zamasu though. He holds some degree of respect towards Goku, even calls it an "honor" to fight him, and has the same Saiyan-like excitement towards battle that Zamasu completely lacks (he seems much more apathetic in battle, only when he's getting blown up does he show any kind of emotion besides disgust towards NINGEN). Also, they made a point of showing a conversation between Black and Zamasu where they had two completely different points of view: Zamasu considered immortality a valuable asset and asked Black if he shouldn't wish for it too and Black said he didn't want to.

[ekrolo2]

The reason Black gets treated as a separate character I think is because we get to know him as Zamasu for a good chunk of time and it even looked like Black was just a grunt working for him until the reveal.

Black does seem to have some exclusive traits to Zamasu though. He holds some degree of respect towards Goku, even calls it an "honor" to fight him, and has the same Saiyan-like excitement towards battle that Zamasu completely lacks (he seems much more apathetic in battle, only when he's getting blown up does he show any kind of emotion besides disgust towards NINGEN). Also, they made a point of showing a conversation between Black and Zamasu where they had two completely different points of view: Zamasu considered immortality a valuable asset and asked Black if he shouldn't wish for it too and Black said he didn't want to.

I think he even speaks with a bit less of a refined dialect too, Herms mentioned something along those lines in his Tweets. His sadism and lust for battle are probably byproducts of Goku's natural instincts affecting his personality.

But still, the show did kind of start trying to paint Black as just a grunt of Zamasu's what with the whole talk about Zamasu creating him and instilling into him his own worldview. This made an illusion of Black not being his own character until just two episodes ago when he was revealed as another Zamasu.

[Xeztin]

I thought the better way to have done it would have been to have it been Goten, since an Evil Goku wouldn't have much of a background other than he didn't hit his head in another timeline or something happened to his family, which still doesn't seem like enough to turn him evil. Piss him off but probably not make him evil.

[fadeddreams5]

Consider Goku's history: he is a member of a race of fierce and relentless warriors, and was sent to Earth in an attempt to conquer it. But when he crashed, he received a head injury.

What is this blasphemy? Goku was raised by caring parents who sent him to Earth to save him from Planet Vegeta's destruction, which was initiated by Lord Beerus, much to Frieza's delight.

[NitroEX]

In the hands of a competent writer I feel as though the heart virus would've been brought back into the story as a way to tie up loose ends and create something new. Perhaps it could've been connected to the origin or demise of Black.

I think having him be Goten is a silly idea. I like the idea of him being an alternate dimension Goku but so far I think they've handled it poorly, as they've done with everything else...

[fadeddreams5]

Him being Goten is an idea that's definitely silly on paper (really, what idea isn't?), but executed the right way, it had the potential of being the most memorable plot twist in the franchise. Plus, the contrast is interesting: Trunks and Goten are best friends in the present, but sworn enemies in the future.

Incidentally, if I wrote two months ago that "Black is Zamasu after wishing to swap bodies with Goku using the super dragon balls," many fans would respond, "that would be lame and disappointing" or "we don't need another Ginyu, bro." And it is lame and disappointing. But if you say that now, you're a complaining hater...

[Chuquita]

I wish he would've turned out to be a warped-by-tragedy Gokû, but such is life. I think they're just afraid to do a genuinely evil Gokû for whatever reason.

[Lord Beerus]

I agree that Goku Black should have been his own character. And believe me, when I found out about this revelation with Goku Black being Present Zamasu, I was very disappointed initially. But give how the story has progressed and how much we've learnt just how narcissistic and self absorbed Zamasu's character is, it actually works quite well. I mean, he literally doesn't think that anybody else would understand his vision of the "utopia" he intended to create by wiping out all the mortals across the multiverse, that he would much rather work with an alternate version of himself, than go through teeth clenched teamwork with working with another God to aid him in his plan. It just adds that extra layer to Zamasu's character that make you realise just how petty and conceited he truly is deep down. He ultimately trusts and believes in no one but himself and isn't ashamed to display just how that is the case.

[ekrolo2]

I wish he would've turned out to be a warped-by-tragedy Gokû, but such is life. I think they're just afraid to do a genuinely evil Gokû for whatever reason.

I don't see what could make Goku warped, though. He has no depth or real understanding of the intricacies of life around him, someone more insightful would probably think their obsession with fighting and how they selfishly pursue it is a bit fucked up, which it is, but Goku's not that guy. How do you warp a guy like that who just doesn't get stuff? Overload his brain with the horrible implications and consequences of his actions maybe?

[dbs fanboy]

Consider Goku's history: he is a member of a race of fierce and relentless warriors, and was sent to Earth in an attempt to conquer it. But when he crashed, he received a head injury.

What is this blasphemy? Goku was raised by caring parents who sent him to Earth to save him from Planet Vegeta's destruction, which was initiated by Lord Beerus, much to Frieza's delight.

God damn it don't make me remember Minus, anyway Freeza wasn't going to destroy planet Vegeta because Beerus told him, he was still going to do it because he wanted as well.

[dbs fanboy]

I wish he would've turned out to be a warped-by-tragedy Gokû, but such is life. I think they're just afraid to do a genuinely evil Gokû for whatever reason.

I don't see what could make Goku warped, though. He has no depth or real understanding of the intricacies of life around him, someone more insightful would probably think their obsession with fighting and how they selfishly pursue it is a bit fucked up, which it is, but Goku's not that guy. How do you warp a guy like that who just doesn't get stuff? Overload his brain with the horrible implications and consequences of his actions maybe?

Emm Goku CARES about the ones he love, remember ep 61? or Krillin's first death?, we don't know how would Goku react if he idk lost everyone and couldn't fix it in any way but i don't think that he would like it or act dumb.

[ekrolo2]

Emm Goku CARES about the ones he love, remember ep 61? or Krillin's first death?, we don't know how would Goku react if he idk lost everyone and couldn't fix it in any way but i don't think that he would like it or act dumb.

Goku only cares if his friends and family are in immediate danger, in everyday life he doesn't give the slightest of fucks about any of them. And Super even makes Goku's caring really dubious as Freeza murdered Piccolo, tortured Gohan and he was still perfectly fine with letting him come back after blatantly stating Freeza would've killed everyone if he mastered his Golden Form.

[dbs fanboy]

Emm Goku CARES about the ones he love, remember ep 61? or Krillin's first death?, we don't know how would Goku react if he idk lost everyone and couldn't fix it in any way but i don't think that he would like it or act dumb.

Goku only cares if his friends and family are in immediate danger, in everyday life he doesn't give the slightest of fucks about any of them. And Super even makes Goku's caring really dubious as Freeza murdered Piccolo, tortured Gohan and he was still perfectly fine with letting him come back after blatantly stating Freeza would've killed everyone if he mastered his Golden Form.

Because he can fix it, "Don't worry Piccolo, i'll wish you back with the Namekian dragon balls" and now we have another set of dragon balls, so....... as i said, we don't know how would Goku react if he couldn't do anything to fix the problem, it would probably be like his reaction to the fact that Shenron was killed and he couldn't wish for Kuririn back.

[Kanassa]

Black is his own character, like F!Trunks, just being an alternate version of another character doesn't change that.

[DragonBallFoodie]

Thank you all for your comments.

The problem with this is that Goku has no depth as a character of any description, he's just a fighting junkie and this very simplistic view of the world makes trying to write him as anything close to Black really, really difficult. The closest we've come to an evil Goku who could happen within the parameters of Goku's character was Perfect Cell, a fighting junkie wasn't afraid of killing/torturing people to draw out strong fighters.

How about making him a fighting junkie who doesn't stop fighting, and this takes him down a dark path as he slaughters worlds and people in search of a good fight?

Black is his own character. Due to merging Zamasu's mind with Goku's body, he has now some of Goku's personality traits as we've seen before. Not very prominent, but they're there, and that separates Black from present and future Zamasu.

Not really, it's just Zamasu's soul with Goku's fighting ability, that's all he wanted.

What is this blasphemy? Goku was raised by caring parents who sent him to Earth to save him from Planet Vegeta's destruction, which was initiated by Lord Beerus, much to Frieza's delight.

I'm using the history of the Saiyans as told by King Kai and Master Roshi.

The stories of the Saiyans themselves don't necessarily contradict this history. We've seen that they were not monsters, but they were apathetic to their own circumstances. As Goku put it, they paid the price for not being good or caring enough when Frieza annihilated them.