Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[DBZ Macky]

I dunno, probably quite a bit stronger than those Namekian villagers that got killed by Dodoria and Zarbon. I'd probably stick him around 10,000 or so.

I don't see why he would be stronger than those Namekians. He could be, but not by much. Does the strength checker have anything on him, I'll need to check it out.

[VegetaSSJBlue]

Z-Warriors vs. Freeza Power Levels


Son Goku – 4,000,000
Kaio-Ken x10 – 40,000,000
Kaio-Ken x20 – 80,000,000
Super Saiyan – 200,000,000

Freeza – 530,000
Second Form – 1,060,000
Third Form – 2,120,000
True Form – 4,240,000
50% Power – 90,000,000
70% Power – 126,000,000
100% Power – 180,000,000

Vegeta – 500,000
Post-recovery – 3,000,000

Son Gohan – 200,000
Enraged – 800,000
Post-recovery – 700,000
Enraged – 2,000,000

Piccolo – 300,000
Merged with Nail – 1,200,000

Kuririn – 13,000

[ekrolo2]

I think making the power increase between Freeza's forms 500 000 a piece makes more sense. By having third form Freeza at 1,590,000 you can make his projected PL for Vegeta at slightly above 2 million and Vegeta's Zenkai roughly 500,000 above that, thus giving him the idea that his last Zenkai can do the job.

Freeza – 530,000
Second Form – 1,060,000
Third Form – 1,590,000
True Form (according to Vegeta's projections) – 2,120,000
Actual True Form - 3,000,000
50% Power – 60,000,000
70% Power – 84,000,000
100% Power – 120,000,000

Krillin's power was also steadily rising as he fought Freeza as stated by Vegeta and equalled about 75,000 when all was said and done according to the daizenshuu.

[apex_pretador]

I think making the power increase between Freeza's forms 500 000 a piece makes more sense. By having third form Freeza at 1,590,000 you can make his projected PL for Vegeta at slightly above 2 million and Vegeta's Zenkai roughly 500,000 above that, thus giving him the idea that his last Zenkai can do the job.

Freeza – 530,000
Second Form – 1,060,000
Third Form – 1,590,000
True Form (according to Vegeta's projections) – 2,120,000
Actual True Form - 3,000,000
50% Power – 60,000,000
70% Power – 84,000,000
100% Power – 120,000,000

Krillin's power was also steadily rising as he fought Freeza as stated by Vegeta and equalled about 75,000 when all was said and done according to the daizenshuu.

The problem is, freeza powered up heavily after Gohan stopped him. Then he powered up again after piccolo stomped him, then he beat down piccolo. But piccolo still didn't take him seriously. And when freeza enters his third form, he totally humiliated him.

[ekrolo2]

I think making the power increase between Freeza's forms 500 000 a piece makes more sense. By having third form Freeza at 1,590,000 you can make his projected PL for Vegeta at slightly above 2 million and Vegeta's Zenkai roughly 500,000 above that, thus giving him the idea that his last Zenkai can do the job.

Freeza – 530,000
Second Form – 1,060,000
Third Form – 1,590,000
True Form (according to Vegeta's projections) – 2,120,000
Actual True Form - 3,000,000
50% Power – 60,000,000
70% Power – 84,000,000
100% Power – 120,000,000

Krillin's power was also steadily rising as he fought Freeza as stated by Vegeta and equalled about 75,000 when all was said and done according to the daizenshuu.

The problem is, freeza powered up heavily after Gohan stopped him. Then he powered up again after piccolo stomped him, then he beat down piccolo. But piccolo still didn't take him seriously. And when freeza enters his third form, he totally humiliated him.

I don't see the problen, in DB a small difference in power lets you stomp someone just fine, a 20% difference is more than adequate enough for third form Freeza to stomp Piccolo.

[DBZ Macky]

Krillin's power was also steadily rising as he fought Freeza as stated by Vegeta and equalled about 75,000 when all was said and done according to the daizenshuu.

Is the 75,000 figure AFTER the battle or from the beginning of the battle with Freeza?

[DanielSSJ]

Krillin's power was also steadily rising as he fought Freeza as stated by Vegeta and equalled about 75,000 when all was said and done according to the daizenshuu.

Is the 75,000 figure AFTER the battle or from the beginning of the battle with Freeza?

I'm pretty sure that it was intended to be for the start of the battle.

[LightBing]

These two lines make me question that number:
Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P9.1-5
Vegeta: “We can win! If the 3 of us fight together, we’ll be able to win somehow or another! [ ] It seems that even Freeza hasn’t noticed…These two’s battle power is steadily rising…”

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P13.6
Context: after grappling with Vegeta for awhile, after Vegeta said they could win
Gohan: “It-it’s true…! If we 3 fight together, we might really be able to manage something…H-he really is absolutely incredible, but we’ve gotten better too…!”

Kuririn has to be much stronger than that for him combined with Gohan and Vegeta to have a chance against Freeza. Even low-balling him I can't put him below 180.000.
If we look at all the fights in this arc, we see that small gaps are enough for big results. Ginyu predicted that Goku should be at 60.000 to handle easily Jheese and Butta, who both should be at the very least 35.000, since they considered Vegeta (30.000) to be weak.
Even taking into account Gohan's and Kuririn's growing power, 75.000 is still too low of a starting number.

[ekrolo2]

Wouldn't Vegeta, Gohan and Krillin combined roughly equal if not surpass first form Freeza even if his PL was 75K?

[LightBing]

Wouldn't Vegeta, Gohan and Krillin combined roughly equal if not surpass first form Freeza even if his PL was 75K?

Isn't Vegeta at 250k given by an official guide? They wouldn't even break 500k with Gohan at 150k. Even if they did, by Dragon Ball rules that's not how it works. A million guys at 5k wouldn't do nothing to Freeza.
At 75k Kuririn attacks shouldn't even sting Freeza, he had to be strong enough to actually be a nuisance and not a mosquito. Which would allow for distraction and teamwork, with charged attacks and combinations having a shot at dealing damage.

To make a real World analogy: One hundred baby's slapping you wouldn't do you any harm, while twenty seven year old's will at the very least mess up your face, maybe worse; in the analogy you're an adult man.

[ekrolo2]

Wouldn't Vegeta, Gohan and Krillin combined roughly equal if not surpass first form Freeza even if his PL was 75K?

Isn't Vegeta at 250k given by an official guide? They wouldn't even break 500k with Gohan at 150k. Even if they did, by Dragon Ball rules that's not how it works. A million guys at 5k wouldn't do nothing to Freeza.
At 75k Kuririn attacks shouldn't even sting Freeza, he had to be strong enough to actually be a nuisance and not a mosquito. Which would allow for distraction and teamwork, with charged attacks and combinations having a shot at dealing damage.

To make a real World analogy: One hundred baby's slapping you wouldn't do you any harm, while twenty seven year old's will at the very least mess up your face, maybe worse; in the analogy you're an adult man.

I'm not sure if that's true, I haven't found anything in a really quick search but I may be wrong. I always assumed he had to be fairly close to Freeza's maximum at first form to not get crushed like a bug during their struggle, Freeza didn't seem like he was holding back there.

[LightBing]

I'm not sure if that's true, I haven't found anything in a really quick search but I may be wrong. I always assumed he had to be fairly close to Freeza's maximum at first form to not get crushed like a bug during their struggle, Freeza didn't seem like he was holding back there.

Found it, it's the same source that says Kuririn is 75.000 while Gohan is given 200.000.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/databook/ V-Jump, 1990 issue.

For me Vegeta has to be at 450.000 at least. Freeza really didn't seem to be holding back.

[DanielSSJ]

These two lines make me question that number:
Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P9.1-5
Vegeta: “We can win! If the 3 of us fight together, we’ll be able to win somehow or another! [ ] It seems that even Freeza hasn’t noticed…These two’s battle power is steadily rising…”

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P13.6
Context: after grappling with Vegeta for awhile, after Vegeta said they could win
Gohan: “It-it’s true…! If we 3 fight together, we might really be able to manage something…H-he really is absolutely incredible, but we’ve gotten better too…!”

Kuririn has to be much stronger than that for him combined with Gohan and Vegeta to have a chance against Freeza. Even low-balling him I can't put him below 180.000.
If we look at all the fights in this arc, we see that small gaps are enough for big results. Ginyu predicted that Goku should be at 60.000 to handle easily Jheese and Butta, who both should be at the very least 35.000, since they considered Vegeta (30.000) to be weak.
Even taking into account Gohan's and Kuririn's growing power, 75.000 is still too low of a starting number.

I'm guessing that Vegeta was intending him and Gohan to be doing the bulk of the fighting (especially since he already knows that Gohan gets crazy strong when he loses his head) and Kuririn is more around to support them and create distractions than anything else (which is pretty much what he actually does in the fight). I mean, Kuririn and the other Earthlings showed up to help fight the Androids, but that doesn't mean that they were even within spitting distance of Freeza, let alone this new threat. Heck, in the Saiyan arc, Kuririn was less than a tenth of Vegeta's full strength and he proved integral to the outcome of the battle.

[LightBing]

I'm guessing that Vegeta was intending him and Gohan to be doing the bulk of the fighting (especially since he already knows that Gohan gets crazy strong when he loses his head) and Kuririn is more around to support them and create distractions than anything else (which is pretty much what he actually does in the fight). I mean, Kuririn and the other Earthlings showed up to help fight the Androids, but that doesn't mean that they were even within spitting distance of Freeza, let alone this new threat. Heck, in the Saiyan arc, Kuririn was less than a tenth of Vegeta's full strength and he proved integral to the outcome of the battle.

While that is likely the case in part, the insistence to state their power increase by both Vegeta and Gohan make it necessary to bring strength into the table for everybody. We can't just surgically separate Kuririn from the equation.
These examples you mention work against this number. The Earthlings showed up against the Androids and did nothing at all. Kuririn contribution against Vegeta was throwing the Genki Dama, he was literally done in with one kick after attacking Vegeta from behind, who was decently weaker from the Kamehameha and from creating the artificial Moon.

Kuririn should still be much weaker than Freeza still 75.000 is ridiculously low, when we've had a whole arc full of power levels to make good comparisons within a margin of error.
Even Kuririn surviving Second Form Freeza first attack(the one Nappa does), while saving Dende in the process already shows strength greater than 75.000. Freeza even commends everybody on their quickness.

Vegeta's 250.000 number is even worse and it comes from the same source. Freeza saw in his scouter before it blow up and actually felt with both his hands Vegeta's power, proceeding to say:

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P13.5-6, P14.1
Context: after Freeza and Vegeta grapple for awhile, after Vegeta said they could win
Freeza: “I see…Seems that wasn’t a complete lie…”
Gohan: “It-it’s true…! If we 3 fight together, we might really be able to manage something…H-he really is absolutely incredible, but we’ve gotten better too…!”
Kuririn: “I-I see…! Since coming here Vegeta’s acquired such strength that he seems to have even further surpassed his limits…B-but…F-Freeza is oddly calm…Why?...”

Would Freeza ever say this to a Vegeta displaying 250.000 of power, less than half than his own in that form?

Even taking into account that Kuririn's and Gohan's growing strength and rage explosions in the case of the latter as significant factors, that is likely Vegeta weighted Kuririn influence much less than his own and Gohan's, these are my lowest numbers possible within the manga's logic:
First Form Freeza - 530.000
Vegeta - 450.000
Gohan - 325.000
Kuririn - 180.000

[ekrolo2]

So, if Zenkai don't work if a Saiyan inflicts injuries on himself, how does Goku get any during his trip to Namek? Doesn't training his body to the breaking point and wearing it down with his own attacks count as self-inflicted?

[DanielSSJ]

So, if Zenkai don't work if a Saiyan inflicts injuries on himself, how does Goku get any during his trip to Namek? Doesn't training his body to the breaking point and wearing it down with his own attacks count as self-inflicted?

Maybe you can get a healing boost from self-inflicted injuries, but they just aren't nearly as potent as they would be if it were an external threat. Sort of like how you can't tickle yourself since your body predicts the sensation. That or it's a big ol' plot hole.

[dbgtFO]

So, if Zenkai don't work if a Saiyan inflicts injuries on himself, how does Goku get any during his trip to Namek? Doesn't training his body to the breaking point and wearing it down with his own attacks count as self-inflicted?

Yes and Vegeta was bullshitting.

[ekrolo2]

So, here's my attempt at figuring out how the God increases work across Super's anime version, I'll be using Goku as a basis since he got God and Blue whereas Vegeta skipped over, making him trickier to figure out:

Pre-Absorption Goku:
Base - 1 (100 million)
SS1 - 50
SS2 - 100
SS3 - 400

Post-Absorption Goku:
Base - 10,000 (on par with Boo arc Super Vegetto, so 1 trillion)
SS1/SSGod - 500 000 (x500 000 Base)
SS2 - 1,000,000
SS3 - 4,000,000
Blue - 250,000,000 (x2500 Base, since Goku needs SS to fully use SSGod's power and Blue is SSGod's Super Saiyan, making it 50x50 or Super Super Saiyan seems reasonable)

[Noah]

Where do you guys have:

Paikuhan (weighted):
Paikuhan (no weights):

Dabura (Pre-meditation chamber)
Dabura (Post-meditation chamber)

[ahill1]

Paikuhan (weighted) 470,000,000
Goku base (Cell Games) 480,000,000
Goku MSSJ (Cell Games) 24,000,000,000
Paikuhan 26,000,000,000
Dabura 26,000,000,000

Dubra was at the meditation chamber in the manga too? Cannot remember.

And damn, Paikuhan weights are a damn boost, huh? Took him from slightly weaker than base Goku to slightly stronger than MSSJ Goku.