Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Noah]

... And Black having godly ki would have been a huge piece of evidence. Yet the only thing that Trunks noticed is the different hair color. Super Saiyan Rose is also described as Black's version of regular Super Saiyan, which rivals Super Saiyan Blue. That's all.

No, would not since Goku comments in their brief battle that Zamasu had a similar Ki as him, so would we say that Zamasu, a god has normal Ki? I don't think so.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

... And Black having godly ki would have been a huge piece of evidence. Yet the only thing that Trunks noticed is the different hair color. Super Saiyan Rose is also described as Black's version of regular Super Saiyan, which rivals Super Saiyan Blue. That's all.

No, would not since Goku comments in their brief battle that Zamasu had a similar Ki as him, so would we say that Zamasu, a god has normal Ki? I don't think so.

They always said that Black has similar ki to Zamasu (who has godly ki), not the same. Black always had normal ki, so suddenly activating godly ki should have been noted.

[Bullza]

What about the aura though? It closer resembles that of the Blue form than the ordinary form.

Plus when Vegeta turned Super Saiyan Blue infront of Black and it was the first time he saw the form, didn't Trunks say something about how he wasn't surprised by seeing it? Not long before Black mentions making Goku's power his own and then turning into something very similar.

Why would he not turn into a Super Saiyan Rose 2 or 3?

[Noah]

My thoughts exactly. It doesn't make sense for Rosé be just a variation of a regular Super Saiyan, it is what Blue is to Goku and Vegeta but to Black.

[Marlowe89]

Super Saiyan Rose is also described as Black's version of regular Super Saiyan

The scan never said "regular", and Super Saiyan Blue is also a version of Super Saiyan so that doesn't exactly disprove anything.

While it might be true that they never specifically said he was using God ki, it doesn't really change the facts at hand - Zamasu is naturally a user of God ki, we know that Black's ki is at least partially Zamasu's ki, and the aura of Super Saiyan Rose clearly resembles the appearance of God ki. I don't think Toei needs to spell this one out, I think it's a conclusion most viewers would naturally come to on their own.

[The Monkey King]

Vegeta destroyed a whole dimension of space and time when he blew up the ROSAT.

Along with Beerus and Goku nearly destroying their universe with their punches this confirms that Dragon Ball God tiers have enough power to wipe out universes in their entirety.

[Bullza]

They've certainly come along way from when Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks had to yell at the top of their lungs just in order to pierce a small hole through it.

Now SSJB Vegeta just blew the entire dimension to pieces.

[Helios518]

To be fair, RoSaT is only Earth sized but still impressive nonetheless.

[ekrolo2]

What're some of your multipliers for SSBlue? I originally assumed it was x2500 Base but Black's really high base + SSs x50 boost makes that impossible.

[Bullza]

It doesn't seem to be THAT much stronger than Super Saiyan 3 to me.

SSJ2 Trunks was initially one shot KOed by SSJ3 Goku (which was inconsistent) but then he trains for a couple days with Vegeta and he's pretty much at the SSJB level himself. He certainly ain't miles off.

If it's just the Super Saiyan form of one with the power of a Super Saiyan God then maybe it's just 50x stronger than Super Saiyan God.

The other forms could still fit in between. Super Saiyan is supposed to be tens of time stronger. Super Saiyan 3 is supposed to be almost insignificantly stronger than SSJ(2?) aswell.

Base - 1
SSJ - 30
SSJ2 - 32
SSJ3 - 35
SSJB - 50

[Zamasu55]

What're some of your multipliers for SSBlue? I originally assumed it was x2500 Base but Black's really high base + SSs x50 boost makes that impossible.

It's 50x stronger than the Beyond God state.

[Zamasu55]

It doesn't seem to be THAT much stronger than Super Saiyan 3 to me.

SSJ2 Trunks was initially one shot KOed by SSJ3 Goku (which was inconsistent) but then he trains for a couple days with Vegeta and he's pretty much at the SSJB level himself. He certainly ain't miles off.

If it's just the Super Saiyan form of one with the power of a Super Saiyan God then maybe it's just 50x stronger than Super Saiyan God.

The other forms could still fit in between. Super Saiyan is supposed to be tens of time stronger. Super Saiyan 3 is supposed to be almost insignificantly stronger than SSJ(2?) aswell.

Base - 1
SSJ - 30
SSJ2 - 32
SSJ3 - 35
SSJB - 50

This is so wrong.

[ekrolo2]

What're some of your multipliers for SSBlue? I originally assumed it was x2500 Base but Black's really high base + SSs x50 boost makes that impossible.

It's 50x stronger than the Beyond God state.

That can't be the case, unless you shrink the multiplier for every other form (which Zamasu's statement contradicts) there's no way you can have it be x50 Base yet have Black's Base be many, many times above Goku & Vegeta's + Rose' x50 boost. It has to be higher.

[Zamasu55]

What're some of your multipliers for SSBlue? I originally assumed it was x2500 Base but Black's really high base + SSs x50 boost makes that impossible.

It's 50x stronger than the Beyond God state.

That can't be the case, unless you shrink the multiplier for every other form (which Zamasu's statement contradicts) there's no way you can have it be x50 Base yet have Black's Base be many, many times above Goku & Vegeta's + Rose' x50 boost. It has to be higher.

Base Black isn't many times above SsjB Goku and Vegeta in fact. He's slightly stronger, it's a bit like Majin Vegeta and Fat Buu, the latter was superior but not that much.

[ekrolo2]

Base Black isn't many times above SsjB Goku and Vegeta in fact. He's slightly stronger, it's a bit like Majin Vegeta and Fat Buu, the latter was superior but not that much.

I said his Base is way above Goku & Vegeta's since he can match SS2 Goku and later on, a restrained Blue Vegeta who admitted that Black got a lot stronger after his fight with Goku. So, the only way to make this work with Rose' x50 boost is to make Blue a LOT higher than x50.

[Bullza]

This is so wrong.

Well it all depends. Are we really going to put old Daizenshuu multipliers said in a guide book from 20 odd years ago and apply it to Super? Even though things said in these guides have already been proven false by the show?

Super Saiyan Goku and Black fought and they were equal. Trunks said that Black was a little stronger in the future. Trunks also said that Black was on par with or a little stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

That tells you that Super Saiyan 3 is barely any stronger than Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2, whichever it was. The guide suggests it's quadruple or octuple times stronger though.

All you've got is Super Saiyan 2 Goku being tens of times stronger. Super Saiyan 3 being less than a little stronger than either that or Super Saiyan and then Super Saiyan Blue is stronger still.

[Marlowe89]

If the multiplier for the first/second form is several dozens of times the strength of base, which at the very least suggests that Daizenshuu's multipliers are still considered by Toei's staff for Super Saiyan in particular, I'd think it would be somewhat presumptuous to assert that 3's multiplier isn't also intact.

It's not like it's totally foreign to the kind of stuff we were shown in Z, considering Goku's Super Saiyan 3 transformation was enough to decisively turn the tables against a vastly improved Trunks.

[ekrolo2]

The Blue multiplier has to be at least 20 000 something times Base for Blacks Base to work with Rose's x50 multiplier. Anything less and Black would be able to kill a Goku combining KK well into his max if not to times 10.

[Zamasu55]

This is so wrong.

Well it all depends. Are we really going to put old Daizenshuu multipliers said in a guide book from 20 odd years ago and apply it to Super? Even though things said in these guides have already been proven false by the show?

Super Saiyan Goku and Black fought and they were equal. Trunks said that Black was a little stronger in the future. Trunks also said that Black was on par with or a little stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

That tells you that Super Saiyan 3 is barely any stronger than Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2, whichever it was. The guide suggests it's quadruple or octuple times stronger though.

All you've got is Super Saiyan 2 Goku being tens of times stronger. Super Saiyan 3 being less than a little stronger than either that or Super Saiyan and then Super Saiyan Blue is stronger still.

Both Goku and Black were holding back.

[Bullza]

Both Goku and Black were holding back.

Goku was holding back in the sense he wasn't using his Super Saiyan 3 or Blue form but that's it. Black was holding back but not by much because Trunks said he was only a little stronger in the future. Goku even made sure he meant just a little and Trunks said yes.

As Trunks also said this future Black was on par with or a little stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku then it all means that Super Saiyan 3 Goku was also just a little stronger than the Super Saiyan or 2 Goku that fought Black in the present.

Even though these old Daizenshuu figures would suggest it's 4 or 8 times stronger.