Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[DBZ Macky]

Is it just me or SSJ3's x8 SSJ multiplier seems way, waaay more than it should actually be.
It's not like the form actually manages to do something relevant either, and then we have stuff like Vegeta actually hanging on (for a while at least) and surviving against Kid Buu. The gap between Majin Vegeta and Fat Buu didn't seem like much either. Even if you go by the minimalist approach, that (Post Rosat) SSJ Gotenks is only just as strong as Fat Buu in his SSJ form, you still get the enormous power inflation... just because SSJ3 is almost 10x regular SSJ.

Gotenks (Super Saiyan 3)= 2,400
Super Buu= 2,000
Goku (Super Saiyan 3)= 400
Gotenks (Super Saiyan)= 300
Fat Buu= 300
Majin Vegeta= 100

It's also funny how the Anime first wanks Gotenks by showing him surviving an encounter with Buu (Which leads many to believe that he's at least on par with Majin Vegeta) and then you have some people agreeing with Post RoSaT Gotenks being stronger than Base Gotenks Pre Rosat, but STILL, somehow the anime has the nerve to claim that Kid Buu is "The strongest form of Buu evar!!".

Maybe if it was Goku's SSJ3 AT FULL POWER that was 8x his SSJ, that would have still made sense.
I think this is relevant to Super since Trunks can apparently reach a level close to SSJ3 in just SSJ2 in the manga, and states that Black in the future (Who is a bit stronger than SSJ3) is only a little stronger than a Black who is fighting on par with SSJ2 Goku.
Back in the old days, when we didn't have the SEG multipliers, most people just gave it a minimal edge over SSJ2, like a 150x Base multiplier... I think that would've worked better.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Power ranking of this story arc of the anime:

Zenno
Grand Priest
Zenno's Guard #1 | Zenno's Guard #2
Whis
Hakaishin Beerus
Kaio-ken x10 Super Saiyan Blue Son Goku
Kaio-ken Super Saiyan Blue Son Goku
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta (post-RoSaT)
Super Saiyan Rose Son Goku Black/Zamasu
Super Future Trunks
Super Saiyan Blue Son Goku | Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Son Goku Black/Zamasu
Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks (post-training)
Future Zamasu
Super Saiyan 3 Son Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta (post-RoSaT)
Super Saiyan 2 Son Goku | Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta | Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks
Zamasu
Super Saiyan Vegeta (post-RoSaT)
Super Saiyan Son Goku | Super Saiyan Vegeta | Super Saiyan Future Trunks | Super Saiyan God Son Goku
Vegeta (post-RoSaT)
Son Goku | Vegeta | Future Trunks
Piccolo | Ultimate Son Gohan | Super Saiyan Son Gohan
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
Super Saiyan Gotenks
Super Saiyan Trunks | Super Saiyan Son Goten
Gotenks
Trunks | Son Goten
Kuririn

[buutenks]

Think it is to inconsistent to tell. The only thing we know for sure is that ssj2 is dozens of times stronger than base, and ssj3 is much stronger.

From the Trunks vs Goku fight and Vegeta vs Trunks, the difference between ssj blue and ssj3 is very !ow.

Like ssj3 400x, ssj blue 500x

[ShinTenshin]

If we follow the Manga, the SSGOD is dozen times stonger than SS3 (or much more).
So i'm not ok with your statement.

[Bullza]

Going by these old Daizenshuu numbers, Potara is supposed to be X's strenght multiplied by Y's strenght right?

Black x Zamasu should create someone that should be killing Goku and Vegeta just by looking in their direction.

If the resulting fusion is somehow still weaker than the likes of Beerus then it's really shitting on the Battle of Gods story. It's about time we have an antagonist whose stronger than Beerus.

[ekrolo2]

Think it is to inconsistent to tell. The only thing we know for sure is that ssj2 is dozens of times stronger than base, and ssj3 is much stronger.

From the Trunks vs Goku fight and Vegeta vs Trunks, the difference between ssj blue and ssj3 is very !ow.

Like ssj3 400x, ssj blue 500x

There's no way that's possible, Black is already SS2 tier in Base alone and much, much stronger later on and with an x50 boost of SSRose, he'd murder stomp even a KKX10 Blue using Goku effortlessly. The difference between Blue and 3 has to be quite significant for the anime.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Going by these old Daizenshuu numbers, Potara is supposed to be X's strenght multiplied by Y's strenght right?

Wrong. It was said in the Super Exciting Guides (not Daizenshuu) that the Potara don't just add the 2 powers, but they multiply it. Then an image describing the merging process of Goku & Vegeta becoming Vegetto had a "Goku X Vegeta = Vegetto", which most likely means that Goku cross Vegeta makes Vegetto, since these texts made no mention of battle powers & simply describe the merging process.

In another guidebook, we had a very similar "Goten + Trunks = Gotenks" image, and in the same section it says that Fusion multiplies the powers & doesn't just add them.

So, these "A + B = C"/"A x B = C" texts aren't supposed to represent battle power formulas.

Plus, Kibitoshin would have surpassed Boo if his battle power was Kaioshin's (above SS level) x Kibito's battle power (near base Saiyan level).

[buutenks]

Well i based the 500x on ssj blue Vegeta not finger flicking Trunks away. But based on Vegeta's statement, ssj blue is way way way stronger than ssj3.

So, perhaps, Trunks is the inconsistent one? And simply got plot power up in ep 57?

[ekrolo2]

Well i based the 500x on ssj blue Vegeta not finger flicking Trunks away. But based on Vegeta's statement, ssj blue is way way way stronger than ssj3.

So, perhaps, Trunks is the inconsistent one? And simply got plot power up in ep 57?

Trunks' power in general, makes no sense. In Episode 57, he can block attacks meant to kill Goku from Black without getting shredded himself then in episode 61 he can't do jack then gets a power up which should, by Episode 57 logic, put him in a league all of his own above any other character besides guys like Whis & Beerus and yet he can't do jack shit to Black or Zamasu.

Not since Nappa have I seen such a finicky character power wise.

[buutenks]

Well i based the 500x on ssj blue Vegeta not finger flicking Trunks away. But based on Vegeta's statement, ssj blue is way way way stronger than ssj3.

So, perhaps, Trunks is the inconsistent one? And simply got plot power up in ep 57?

Trunks' power in general, makes no sense. In Episode 57, he can block attacks meant to kill Goku from Black without getting shredded himself then in episode 61 he can't do jack then gets a power up which should, by Episode 57 logic, put him in a league all of his own above any other character besides guys like Whis & Beerus and yet he can't do jack shit to Black or Zamasu.

Not since Nappa have I seen such a finicky character power wise.

Oh well, i guess they should have given him the form in ep 57, would have made much more sense.


My power ranking is:

Current ssj blue Vegeta
kkx10 ssj blue Goku/Current Black Rose(ep 63)
Angry ssj blue Goku(aka, current ssj blue Goku)
Future Zamasu/kkx2 ssj blue Goku/Super Trunks

[Bullza]

I don't see much of an issue with Trunks' power. The only thing that's inconsistent is SSJ3 Goku one shotting him.

At the start of the saga he was stronger than SSJ2 Goku and strong enough to hold his own against Base Black. He was also strong enough to react to SSJB Vegeta's speed and withstand his attacks to an extent.

He then powered up after training with Vegeta to the point he's now able to better hold his own against those who are at SSJB level.

Then his Super Trunks form in episode 61 isn't an enormous power up as it's just the power of Ultra SSJ2 but without the loss in speed and at this point he's able to hold his own against SSJB Black who has further powered up after receiving that beat down from angry Goku.

SSJR Black (Scimitar) = Super Trunks > Angry SSJB Goku > SSJR Black (Dagger) > SSJB Goku ~ SSJ2 Trunks (After training with Vegeta) > Base Black > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Trunks > SSJ2 Goku

[ekrolo2]

I don't see much of an issue with Trunks' power. The only thing that's inconsistent is SSJ3 Goku one shotting him.

At the start of the saga he was stronger than SSJ2 Goku and strong enough to hold his own against Base Black. He was also strong enough to react to SSJB Vegeta's speed and withstand his attacks to an extent.

He then powered up after training with Vegeta to the point he's now able to better hold his own against those who are at SSJB level.

Then his Super Trunks form in episode 61 isn't an enormous power up as it's just the power of Ultra SSJ2 but without the loss in speed and at this point he's able to hold his own against SSJB Black who has further powered up after receiving that beat down from angry Goku.

SSJR Black (Scimitar) = Super Trunks > Angry SSJB Goku > SSJR Black (Dagger) > SSJB Goku ~ SSJ2 Trunks (After training with Vegeta) > Base Black > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Trunks > SSJ2 Goku

Trunks being this strong period is some massive horse shit but I'll let it slide to actually have a conversation on it. The fact is, Trunks is nearly on par with Goku & Vegeta and Goku's rage out didn't massively increase his power, I'd be shocked if it even doubled it. Meanwhile, Trunks' LOL RAGETA JR! mode was treated as this massive boost in strength that seemingly elevated him to new heights.... but not really, he's somehow still not stomping Black's face in but Vegeta, using a completely obsolete training method by himself no less in under a year can.

Trunks' powers make no sense, at all.

[Bullza]

Oh well the initial power boost Trunks got that made him comparable to a Post God absorbed Goku is bullshit horse shit sure but that's just for the sake of the plot.

Trunks' new form was still a considerable boost. He went from being weaker than dagger form SSJR Black to being on par with scimitar form SSJR Black. If it really is just a difference in power between SSJ2 and USSJ2 then that's the boost I suppose. I don't think even that would be double if the difference between SSJ and USSJ wasn't double back in the Cell saga.

It's Vegeta's boost that makes no sense. Before 3 years was supposed to increase their power insignificantly because they meant to be at their limit. Now in 6 months he's grown enough to blow the entire dimension up and he didn't have anyone to spar with either.

[Marlowe89]

So, perhaps, Trunks is the inconsistent one?

To be frank, yes. There's a bizarre moment in Episode 57 where Trunks blocks Black's attack aimed at Goku, but if I'm going to be completely honest here, I think that was just Toei getting fancy with the fight choreography because they had a good animator doing the scene - in general he was never portrayed to be capable of going toe to toe with someone on Black's level before his most recent transformation, nor was there ever any evidence to suggest that he was boosted in any significant manner from his incredibly short skirmish against Vegeta. People saw one brief exchange and took it way too seriously.

In my opinion, it was his new form alone that gave him his big boost.

[HeroR]

Oh well, i guess they should have given him the form in ep 57, would have made much more sense.


My power ranking is:

Current ssj blue Vegeta
kkx10 ssj blue Goku/Current Black Rose(ep 63)
Angry ssj blue Goku(aka, current ssj blue Goku)
Future Zamasu/kkx2 ssj blue Goku/Super Trunks

What makes you think either Black Rose or current Vegeta are equal to stronger than KKx10 Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku?

[Bullza]

There was that preview that said Trunks had got a lot stronger from training or something though that wasnt mentioned in the show. It depends how "canon" you decide to make that but it would make sense.

He was man handled when he fought Base Black prior to returning to the present but then he was able to kick SSJR Black into a building and get the upper hand over Zamasu whose able to keep up with SSJB Goku.

[Marlowe89]

He was man handled when he fought Base Black prior to returning to the present but then he was able to kick SSJR Black into a building and get the upper hand over Zamasu whose able to keep up with SSJB Goku.

Well, yeah. I can't really dispute that it happened, and there's a perfectly valid chance that I'm completely wrong and Trunks' training with Vegeta indeed boosted him to a considerable degree.

I just can't help but find it suspicious that his feats against Black were only present within just that one episode, not to mention it was an episode with an animation director known for crazy fluid fighting choreography. I think it's somewhat questionable at the very least, especially when looking at Episode 61.

[Lord Beerus]

Clones of Goku Black prove no match for SSJB Goku and Vegeta.

That's petty much all I got out of the latest episode.

[Marlowe89]

We also got confirmation via Goku's statement that Zamasu frequently lets his guard down because of his immortality. Helps explain why Trunks could hurt him on certain occasions.

[Bullza]

New episode. Not sure how much it tells us.

Black mentions that Vegeta's power had something to do with Trunks being hurt? Which would make his strength increase part training for 6 months and part Rage boost?

Not sure if Black powered up again hence the upgrade to a scythe or not but he swung it and cut the fabric of reality, time or space or all three. Not sure exactly what he did there. Herms said Black says "Maybe another universe or the distant past or future."

Don't know if he was stronger than Vegeta though, he easily dodged him but there wasn't much of a fight afterward because somehow Black had a bunch of shadow clones do the fighting. I'll assume he wasn't though.

And as expected Merged Zamasu looks to be stomping everyone with ease.