"Future" Trunks Arc Timeline & Paradox Discussion Thread

[Gowasum]

It's not all that difficult to imagine how Black could be created without Trunks; if it can happen in a scenario where Trunks does arrive (as we see in the manga) then it can certainly happen in a scenario where Trunks doesn't arrive. The anime's explanation of what happened in Black's timeline will probably be very similar to Toyotarō's depiction in the manga, assuming we ever get an explanation. For now, all we need to know is that they sparred to more or less the same result.

Yes which would be another timeline with slightly different events. I was referring to the Toei graphic which implies that there is always Trunks going back -> Blacks creation, a loop so to say.

[Terez]

It's not all that difficult to imagine how Black could be created without Trunks; if it can happen in a scenario where Trunks does arrive (as we see in the manga) then it can certainly happen in a scenario where Trunks doesn't arrive. The anime's explanation of what happened in Black's timeline will probably be very similar to Toyotarō's depiction in the manga, assuming we ever get an explanation. For now, all we need to know is that they sparred to more or less the same result.

Yes which would be another timeline with slightly different events. I was referring to the Toei graphic which implies that there is always Trunks going back -> Blacks creation, a loop so to say.

I don't see that implied in the graphic. It has Trunks arriving in the main timeline of the story, but not in Black's timeline.

[Gowasum]

It's not all that difficult to imagine how Black could be created without Trunks; if it can happen in a scenario where Trunks does arrive (as we see in the manga) then it can certainly happen in a scenario where Trunks doesn't arrive. The anime's explanation of what happened in Black's timeline will probably be very similar to Toyotarō's depiction in the manga, assuming we ever get an explanation. For now, all we need to know is that they sparred to more or less the same result.

Yes which would be another timeline with slightly different events. I was referring to the Toei graphic which implies that there is always Trunks going back -> Blacks creation, a loop so to say.

I don't see that implied in the graphic. It has Trunks arriving in the main timeline of the story, but not in Black's timeline.

it is written there: "... However, because Beerus destroyed Zamasu, the main history is reorganized and split into two histories." Unless it is just worded poorly it is implied the split happens when Beerus destroys Zamasu.

[Terez]

Yes which would be another timeline with slightly different events. I was referring to the Toei graphic which implies that there is always Trunks going back -> Blacks creation, a loop so to say.

I don't see that implied in the graphic. It has Trunks arriving in the main timeline of the story, but not in Black's timeline.

it is written there: "... However, because Beerus destroyed Zamasu, the main history is reorganized and split into two histories." Unless it is just worded poorly it is implied the split happens when Beerus destroys Zamasu.

If it had been a diagram of the Trunks timeline and the main timeline, and the main timeline had begun with: "Because Trunks warned the Z warriors about the androids and saved Goku from the heart virus, the timeline is reorganized and split into two histories", probably no one would have thought anything of it.*

I think we're supposed to be able to figure out that Beerus destroying Zamasu happened because of Trunks arriving in that timeline (or rather, arriving in Black's past, which created a paradox and necessitated a new timeline).

*Ignoring the Cell complications.

[Cipher]

I'm down with Terez's reading, which simply has the graphic align with what we're given in the series.

I don't think anyone on staff there is thinking as hard about the time-travel aspects as we are, certainly not for a promotional explainer like this, so it's easier to simply reference Beerus' destruction of Zamasu, as it's the action that cements the biggest difference between both versions of events and prevents Goku Black from occurring.

[Marlowe89]

it is written there: "... However, because Beerus destroyed Zamasu, the main history is reorganized and split into two histories." Unless it is just worded poorly it is implied the split happens when Beerus destroys Zamasu.

That's my biggest problem with the graphic, if Herms' translation of that sentence is indeed fully accurate. At one point it implies that it was Beerus who created the split (which makes absolutely no logical sense, for reasons I've already pointed out) and at another point it says that Black "had come from a history similar to the present history, but in which he succeeded in killing Gowasu".

So at this point, who really knows which explanation they're officially going with? I want to agree with Cipher and Terez in that Black simply came from a timeline where Goku fought Zamasu under entirely different circumstances - to be honest even that explanation has its problems, since it's incredibly unlikely for Goku to come specifically to Universe 10's Kaioshin realm unless they were investigating Zamasu because they encountered Black, but at least it's mathematically possible so there's no holes - but the way Toei portrayed the situation is problematic because they used recycled footage from Goku's fight against Zamasu as well as the graphic's implication that Beerus was somehow responsible for another timeline split.

I was hoping they'd shed more light on it down the road in the actual show, but that's looking less and less likely with every new episode.

[Terez]

So at this point, who really knows which explanation they're officially going with? I want to agree with Cipher and Terez in that Black simply came from a timeline where Goku fought Zamasu under entirely different circumstances - to be honest even that explanation has its problems, since it's incredibly unlikely for Goku to come specifically to Universe 10's Kaioshin realm unless they were investigating Zamasu because they encountered Black, but at least it's mathematically possible so there's no holes - but the way Toei portrayed the situation is problematic because they used recycled footage from Goku's fight against Zamasu as well as the graphic's implication that Beerus was somehow responsible for another timeline split.

These points don't seem too problematic to me. However incredibly unlikely it might seem that Goku would go to U10 for any other reason than Trunks, we're getting an official alternate scenario in the manga for exactly that circumstance. It's an alternate canon, but it's still based on Toriyama's plot, so there's no reason anyone should argue that Goku couldn't end up sparring with Zamasu without having already met Black. Since Trunks is present in the manga scenario, I'm sure he'll still have something to do with the meeting, but at least we've been shown how Zamasu could become obsessed with Goku independent of Trunks.

As for the flashbacks, these don't bother me because it's not third person limited. Black mentioned their fight; we're shown the fight Goku remembers. The fight Black remembers is probably not all that different, so the Toei writers probably didn't find it problematic to use this footage. I mean, just last episode they had Bulma mention that Trunks used to be good at jigsaw puzzles when he was a kid, as if she raised him. For all she knows, his childhood was too traumatic for jigsaw puzzles but...whatever, right?

These problems are minor, almost insignificant in comparison to the problems with the other theory. If you cancel out the spar footage with the differing depictions of Gowasu's death, and cancel out the "how do they meet?" question with the causal loop paradox (hardly an equal trade, but we'll let it slide), you still have a mile-long list of logical inconsistencies to deal with on the side of the "Time Ring Protection" hand-wave theory.

It's a truly mind-boggling theory, and I find that most people who believe it have not put much thought into it at all. The exceptions are almost worse; for example, vlorsutes (who I like, for the record)* is arguing over on Reddit that Black must have stolen Goku's body from the "unseen" timeline. (Nevermind that it's pretty clear on the diagram that he went to the future of his own timeline, and nevermind that the unseen timeline might not actually exist.)

*Thought about just not naming him at all, but I don't want to come off as passive-aggressive to people who know who I'm talking about. Vlorsutes is probably my favorite r/dbz regular; his position on this mystery still surprises me a bit, but hey, maybe he's right. Wrong or right, I can't like this explanation.

[Gowasum]

I think we're supposed to be able to figure out that Beerus destroying Zamasu happened because of Trunks arriving in that timeline (or rather, arriving in Black's past, which created a paradox and necessitated a new timeline).

Then that would be no paradox and it is more like what happened in the whole Cell time travels. There is also the detail where Gowasu points out that a new time ring was created a few years ago iirc. If Trunks split the timeline then it doesn´t go along with what was shown in the anime.

These problems are minor, almost insignificant in comparison to the problems with the other theory. If you cancel out the spar footage with the differing depictions of Gowasu's death, and cancel out the "how do they meet?" question with the causal loop paradox (hardly an equal trade, but we'll let it slide), you still have a mile-long list of logical inconsistencies to deal with on the side of the "Time Ring Protection" hand-wave theory.

The time protection ring is as far as I understood one of their key points for the Beerus splitting time "explanation" as well as Beerus special power that erases beings across the timelines, both things mentioned in the anime for some purpose. Just because of it Black didn´t get erased but instead a new timeline emerged because his existence needs to be justified somehow (the logic lacks here unfortunately since we see Black actually explaining his events which are different a little bit then what we see with Gowasus death). Also the time split itself should happen before Whis rewinds time and not when Beerus kills Zamasu.

[Terez]

I think we're supposed to be able to figure out that Beerus destroying Zamasu happened because of Trunks arriving in that timeline (or rather, arriving in Black's past, which created a paradox and necessitated a new timeline).

Then that would be no paradox and it is more like what happened in the whole Cell time travels.

Yes, exactly. The paradox is a problem; this explanation solves it.

There is also the detail where Gowasu points out that a new time ring was created a few years ago iirc. If Trunks split the timeline then it doesn´t go along with what was shown in the anime.

Assuming that Trunks created the newest Time Ring (which seems likely to me), I believe this is explained by the fact that Black showed up in Trunks's timeline a few years before Trunks left. Since that event wasn't part of Black's past, these years necessarily become an aspect of the new flow of time. You could say that Trunks's time-traveling was foreordained from the moment Black arrived in his timeline.

The time protection ring is as far as I understood one of their key points for the Beerus splitting time "explanation" as well as Beerus special power that erases beings across the timelines, both things mentioned in the anime for some purpose. Just because of it Black didn´t get erased but instead a new timeline emerged because his existence needs to be justified somehow (the logic lacks here unfortunately since we see Black actually explaining his events which are different a little bit then what we see with Gowasus death). Also the time split itself should happen before Whis rewinds time and not when Beerus kills Zamasu.

I think we agree (not entirely sure) but I'll offer my own arguments:

All the Time Ring did was allow Black to escape his timeline, which led to Trunks traveling to the past, which necessitated a new timeline, but Black cannot be affected by what's happening in that past world because after Trunks's arrival, he and that Zamasu are no longer the same person. In translation, actually, Black's line about the Time Ring and Trunks's line about how timelines work are very similar:

Trunks: There isn't just one flow of time... Even if a god is erased in this world, it won't affect the future world where I live. I'm sure of it.
Black: Everything was brought about by this Time Ring... No matter what happens in the past world, it has no effect on the me now.

I believe the Beerus "it's gotta affect the time stream" explanation served two purposes. It served to deepen and prolong the mystery, and it served as character development for Beerus and Trunks: Beerus suffers from hubris and inexperience, while Trunks is the master time-traveler and was able to teach Beerus something about how time-traveling and alternate timelines work. Is it confusing for children? Sure, but they said it was going to be confusing, and it's alright because they're going to explain it in the end: Trunks saved Goku yet again by time-traveling.

That said, they do seem to be going for an end to time-traveling with this arc. They're highlighting the dangers of it. Whereas we previously thought that Trunks hopping between timelines wouldn't create new timelines, now we have a scenario where it does just that, because paradox is still possible when he crosses paths with another timeline-hopper. And the Time Rings, the gods' instrument for time-traveling, are designed to avoid paradox, while the time machine (which can go to the past) is not. I expect all the time machines to be destroyed, and perhaps all the alternate timelines too. Zenō's ability to destroy whole realities was mentioned in the very first episode of this arc.

[Terra-jin]

And the Time Rings, the gods' instrument for time-traveling, are designed to avoid paradox, while the time machine (which can go to the past) is not.

They're portrayed as avoiding paradoxes, but consider this:

If a Time Ring is used to go to the future, no paradox is created. When the user returns, however, they travel to a history that already happened. This means that whenever a Time Ring user returns to the time of origin, they should create a new timeline.

For example: in our main timeline, Gowasu and Zamasu traveled to 1,000 years in the future. He killed a Barbari-jin there. After he returns, history will eventually catch up to the moment they both appear. I'd imagine Beerus waiting for Zamasu there to destroy him a second time, to prevent Zamasu from killing that mortal (only Beerus is allowed to destroy, after all). This would be a paradox.

It could also be that the future visited by the Time Ring user exists only as a virtual timeline, disappearing straight after the user's return, as if it never happened. The user would then have the sole memory of that particular time (although the effects of wishes would remain). This would get convoluted, though, if the user remains in the future and visits several parallel timelines.

How do you guys see this?

[Terez]

My take on this so far is that the future (unlike the past) can be overwritten. The future is a model, or a projection based on current information. Of course, Gowasu's comments about the long-term effects of Zamasu killing the Babarian don't make much sense in that context, but that seems to be the logic they're going for in allowing gods to travel to the future but not to the past. The future can be overwritten because, as Whis said, time is only supposed to flow in one direction. The past cannot be overwritten, excepting Whis's very limited ability.

I've seen it argued here that perhaps all actions taken in the future then become predestined. In other words, even if Zamasu dies before it gets to that point 1000 years in the future, he still still be there. But, that doesn't make much sense either, if the future can be overwritten; things might change before it gets to that point. But perhaps in that case, Zamasu and Gowasu won't be there?

The SDB question bothers me more than anything. If the projected future changes, will the wish be undone? If it doesn't change, will the SDBs continue to be unavailable?

I do think we'll get answers on the timeline business before this arc is done, because all it will take is some comment about Trunks having saved Goku again, but I doubt we'll get answers on things like the SDBs. It's hard to imagine that they've really put a lot of thought into how this works.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Black and Present Zamasu are the same exact person.

Both are stated to come from the main timeline. Black is simply from further up the stream than the Present Zamasu that we see. A God killing another God affects the time stream. When Beerus killed Black, he erased Black's version of the main timelines history and replaced it, hence he did technically split timelines. Nothing implies that Beerus was making things up. Such truth was acknowledged by Black himself.
Erasing the events leading up to Black would mean that Black never existed, but the Time Ring sustained his existence. Black is simply a leftover fragment from the original unaltered main timeline.

Nothing is said about alternate time streams independent of the one where the change occurred, hence killing Present Zamasu would have no effect on Future Zamasu. Nothing would happen to the Gods in the main timeline if Black killed the Gods from Trunks' timeline since they aren't from the same time stream.

[Terez]

A God killing another God affects the time stream. When Beerus killed Black, he erased Black's version of the main timelines history and replaced it, hence he did technically split timelines. Nothing implies that Beerus was making things up.

A lot of things imply he was making things up, actually. He didn't even seem all that sure in the first place, judging by the DragonTeam translation (which I'm still inclined to trust more than any of the others). "When one god exterminates another, it's gotta affect the time stream." Beerus made it clear that his assertion was not based on experience or knowledge, but on his godly logic (as opposed to human logic). In other words, his hubris.

Aside from that, he made it clear later on that Trunks's explanation about how he had to be wrong made sense.

Episode 60:

Beerus: So you still won't believe me? Jeez!
Goku: Are you still goin' on about that Beerus-sama? Why don't you come with us?
Beerus: No way. If I traveled back and forth in time, it would totally affect history. A god's not about to break a taboo.
Kid Trunks: Wait a minute! A god's saying he took care of it! If Zamasu is gone, then everything he's supposed to do won't happen, right?! It means future Mom won't be killed, right?!
Future Trunks: If, as Beerus-sama says, Black doesn't attack in the future and it remains peaceful, then why am I in this world now?
Pilaf: That's right! If nothing happened, then big Trunks wouldn't have come to this world!
Shu: So, the minute history changes, he should disappear?
Future Trunks: I don't know about disappearing, but...
Beerus: ~growls~
Whis: There, there. Let's hear his opinion.

[...]

Future Trunks: There isn't just one flow of time... It's true that you and I are both Trunks, but the history we each walk is entirely different.
Kid Trunks: Uh... Huh? W–why?
Future Trunks: For example... I never once saw such a beautiful night skyline as a child. For you and me, the history we walk is different.

[long explanation of the differences between their timelines]

Kid Trunks: I get it. I understand why you can't believe what Beerus-sama says. Since it's a different world.
Future Trunks: That's right. Even if a god is erased in this world, it won't affect the future world where I live. I'm sure of it.

Episode 61:

Beerus: I see. So it didn't change. I was thinking that might be the case.
Bulma: What?! You were thinking that might be the case?!
Beerus: Trunks-kun's theory was quite convincing.
Whis: Beerus-sama, stop digging a hole.

Beerus didn't even bother to wonder why he hadn't managed to kill Black, because Trunks's explanation was sufficient. The way these two scenes were written, it's hard to imagine that they weren't giving us the real explanation for why Beerus was wrong. Trunks's explanation was too sensible, and Beerus was painted as having made an arrogant and faulty assumption.

Such truth was acknowledged by Black himself.

Black never said that he escaped death at Beerus's hand using the Time Ring. How would he even know about that? All Black said is that he used the Time Ring steal Goku's body and go to Trunks's timeline. Thus when Trunks used the time machine to go to his past, nothing that happened there could affect him.

If he hadn't used the Time Ring to escape that timeline, then Trunks's actions there could have affected him, because Trunks wouldn't have been time-traveling in any real sense; he would have been merely visiting another temporal universe, as he has done in the past. But with the future version of Black in his timeline, now when he visits that temporal universe, he's visiting Black's past.

Erasing the events leading up to Black would mean that Black never existed, but the Time Ring sustained his existence. Black is simply a leftover fragment from the original unaltered main timeline.

If anyone caused Black's timeline to be overwritten, it was Trunks, not Beerus. It was Trunks who created the paradox. That said, we have no real reason at this point to think Black's timeline was overwritten, and the introduction of the newest Time Ring might suggest otherwise.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

A God killing another God affects the time stream. When Beerus killed Black, he erased Black's version of the main timelines history and replaced it, hence he did technically split timelines. Nothing implies that Beerus was making things up.

A lot of things imply he was making things up, actually. He didn't even seem all that sure in the first place, judging by the DragonTeam translation (which I'm still inclined to trust more than any of the others). "When one god exterminates another, it's gotta affect the time stream." Beerus made it clear that his assertion was not based on experience or knowledge, but on his godly logic (as opposed to human logic). In other words, his hubris.

Aside from that, he made it clear later on that Trunks's explanation about how he had to be wrong made sense.

Episode 60:

Beerus: So you still won't believe me? Jeez!
Goku: Are you still goin' on about that Beerus-sama? Why don't you come with us?
Beerus: No way. If I traveled back and forth in time, it would totally affect history. A god's not about to break a taboo.
Kid Trunks: Wait a minute! A god's saying he took care of it! If Zamasu is gone, then everything he's supposed to do won't happen, right?! It means future Mom won't be killed, right?!
Future Trunks: If, as Beerus-sama says, Black doesn't attack in the future and it remains peaceful, then why am I in this world now?
Pilaf: That's right! If nothing happened, then big Trunks wouldn't have come to this world!
Shu: So, the minute history changes, he should disappear?
Future Trunks: I don't know about disappearing, but...
Beerus: ~growls~
Whis: There, there. Let's hear his opinion.

[...]

Future Trunks: There isn't just one flow of time... It's true that you and I are both Trunks, but the history we each walk is entirely different.
Kid Trunks: Uh... Huh? W–why?
Future Trunks: For example... I never once saw such a beautiful night skyline as a child. For you and me, the history we walk is different.

[long explanation of the differences between their timelines]

Kid Trunks: I get it. I understand why you can't believe what Beerus-sama says. Since it's a different world.
Future Trunks: That's right. Even if a god is erased in this world, it won't affect the future world where I live. I'm sure of it.

Episode 61:

Beerus: I see. So it didn't change. I was thinking that might be the case.
Bulma: What?! You were thinking that might be the case?!
Beerus: Trunks-kun's theory was quite convincing.
Whis: Beerus-sama, stop digging a hole.

Beerus didn't even bother to wonder why he hadn't managed to kill Black, because Trunks's explanation was sufficient. The way these two scenes were written, it's hard to imagine that they weren't giving us the real explanation for why Beerus was wrong. Trunks's explanation was too sensible, and Beerus was painted as having made an arrogant and faulty assumption.

Such truth was acknowledged by Black himself.

Black never said that he escaped death at Beerus's hand using the Time Ring. How would he even know about that? All Black said is that he used the Time Ring steal Goku's body and go to Trunks's timeline. Thus when Trunks used the time machine to go to his past, nothing that happened there could affect him.

If he hadn't used the Time Ring to escape that timeline, then Trunks's actions there could have affected him, because Trunks wouldn't have been time-traveling in any real sense; he would have been merely visiting another temporal universe, as he has done in the past. But with the future version of Black in his timeline, now when he visits that temporal universe, he's visiting Black's past.

Erasing the events leading up to Black would mean that Black never existed, but the Time Ring sustained his existence. Black is simply a leftover fragment from the original unaltered main timeline.

If anyone caused Black's timeline to be overwritten, it was Trunks, not Beerus. It was Trunks who created the paradox. That said, we have no real reason at this point to think Black's timeline was overwritten, and the introduction of the newest Time Ring might suggest otherwise.

Trunks' theory made sense based on the knowledge he possessed at that time, but that wasn't the reason that Black still existed and Trunks had no idea that Present Zamasu and Black were the same exact person. When Goku brings up that Black should be gone due to Zamasu's death, Black stated that the Time Ring made it so that any changes that occurred to Present Zamasu didn't affect him. That's a blatant concession that he would've been affected otherwise if he didn't have the Time Ring. No ifs, ands or buts.

Black never said anything about escaping to another timeline to get away from any changes. All he said is that he remained unaffected because of the Time Ring, so simply wielding the ring sufficed.
Nowhere was it stated or implied that traveling to another timeline makes you immune to any changes in the timeline that you originally came from.

Beerus erased Black's history since he is the one who destroyed Zamasu, not Trunks. Trunks' warning of Black is what led to the events of Zamasu's death, but coming back in time within itself only caused a minor alteration of the time stream itself without creating a new timeline.

[Terez]

Trunks' theory made sense but that wasn't the reason that Black still existed. When Goku brings up that Black should be gone due to Zamasu's death, Black stated that the Time Ring made it so that any changes that occurred to Present Zamasu didn't affect him. That's a blatant concession that he would've been affected otherwise if he didn't have the Time Ring. No ifs, ands or buts.

I disagree very much with that interpretation; I think it's reading way too much into his words. It's not supported by the context, or anything else in his story. He said "It was all brought about by this Time Ring.... Whatever may happen in the past world, it has no effect on my current self." Whatever may happen, not just the death of his past self.

Black never said anything about escaping to another timeline to get away from any changes.

That's exactly what he did when the characters were confused by what he had said. He told his story, and how he used the Time Ring to steal Goku's body and jump to Trunks's timeline.

None of the characters in the story have reached this conclusion about him being "protected" by the Time Ring like the fans have. (The English-speaking fans anyway. Now I'm curious as to what the Japanese fans think about this.)

Nowhere was it stated or implied that traveling to another timeline makes you immune to any changes in the timeline that you originally came from.

That doesn't have to be stated because it's obvious. That's how time-travel works. If Trunks goes to the main timeline, and then someone steals his time machine and travels to his past in his timeline, killing him, nothing will happen to the Trunks in the main timeline. No one would have thought otherwise before the Black arc.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

I disagree very much with that interpretation; I think it's reading way too much into his words. It's not supported by the context, or anything else in his story. He said "It was all brought about by this Time Ring.... Whatever may happen in the past world, it has no effect on my current self." Whatever may happen, not just the death of his past self.

Any change done to Present Zamasu would have affected him had he not been in possession of the Time Ring. It's clear cut, otherwise Black has no reason to entertain the idea of changes happening to him to begin with.

That's exactly what he did when the characters were confused by what he had said. He told his story, and how he used the Time Ring to steal Goku's body and jump to Trunks's timeline.

None of the characters in the story have reached this conclusion about him being "protected" by the Time Ring like the fans have. (The English-speaking fans anyway. Now I'm curious as to what the Japanese fans think about this.)

He didn't say that he jumped to Trunks' timeline to escape any changes. He wanted to find a world without a God of Destruction, which is what he did when he went to the alternate Universe 7.

That doesn't have to be stated because it's obvious. That's how time-travel works. If Trunks goes to the main timeline, and then someone steals his time machine and travels to his past in his timeline, killing him, nothing will happen to the Trunks in the main timeline. No one would have thought otherwise before the Black arc.

The timelines would just split the moment the individual went back to that specific period of Trunks' era with the time machine. The Trunks that traveled to the main timeline and the one killed wouldn't even be from the same time stream to begin with.

[HeroR]

I disagree very much with that interpretation; I think it's reading way too much into his words. It's not supported by the context, or anything else in his story. He said "It was all brought about by this Time Ring.... Whatever may happen in the past world, it has no effect on my current self." Whatever may happen, not just the death of his past self.

Any change done to Present Zamasu would have affected him had he not been in possession of the Time Ring. It's clear cut, otherwise Black has no reason to entertain the idea of changes happening to him to begin with.

That's exactly what he did when the characters were confused by what he had said. He told his story, and how he used the Time Ring to steal Goku's body and jump to Trunks's timeline.

None of the characters in the story have reached this conclusion about him being "protected" by the Time Ring like the fans have. (The English-speaking fans anyway. Now I'm curious as to what the Japanese fans think about this.)

He didn't say that he jumped to Trunks' timeline to escape any changes. He wanted to find a world without a God of Destruction, which is what he did when he went to the alternate Universe 7.

That doesn't have to be stated because it's obvious. That's how time-travel works. If Trunks goes to the main timeline, and then someone steals his time machine and travels to his past in his timeline, killing him, nothing will happen to the Trunks in the main timeline. No one would have thought otherwise before the Black arc.

The timelines would just split the moment the individual went back to that specific period of Trunks' era with the time machine. The Trunks that traveled to the main timeline and the one killed wouldn't even be from the same time stream to begin with.

That's in the manga. In the anime, Black killed all the gods himself, including U7's Supreme Kai. He chose Trunks' timeline because of Trunks. He wasn't looking for a timeline without Beerus.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

I disagree very much with that interpretation; I think it's reading way too much into his words. It's not supported by the context, or anything else in his story. He said "It was all brought about by this Time Ring.... Whatever may happen in the past world, it has no effect on my current self." Whatever may happen, not just the death of his past self.

Any change done to Present Zamasu would have affected him had he not been in possession of the Time Ring. It's clear cut, otherwise Black has no reason to entertain the idea of changes happening to him to begin with.

That's exactly what he did when the characters were confused by what he had said. He told his story, and how he used the Time Ring to steal Goku's body and jump to Trunks's timeline.

None of the characters in the story have reached this conclusion about him being "protected" by the Time Ring like the fans have. (The English-speaking fans anyway. Now I'm curious as to what the Japanese fans think about this.)

He didn't say that he jumped to Trunks' timeline to escape any changes. He wanted to find a world without a God of Destruction, which is what he did when he went to the alternate Universe 7.

That doesn't have to be stated because it's obvious. That's how time-travel works. If Trunks goes to the main timeline, and then someone steals his time machine and travels to his past in his timeline, killing him, nothing will happen to the Trunks in the main timeline. No one would have thought otherwise before the Black arc.

The timelines would just split the moment the individual went back to that specific period of Trunks' era with the time machine. The Trunks that traveled to the main timeline and the one killed wouldn't even be from the same time stream to begin with.

That's in the manga. In the anime, Black killed all the gods himself, including U7's Supreme Kai. He chose Trunks' timeline because of Trunks. He wasn't looking for a timeline without Beerus.

He isn't stated to have a different motive in the anime, so no. The U7 Supreme Kai died as shown, then Black killed all of the others.

[Marlowe89]

As much as I hate to admit it, supersaiyangodgogeta is correct in that Black is for all intents and purposes the present Zamasu we're all familiar with. Multiple characters have suggested this to be the case ever since Black's big revelation, not to mention the graphic essentially confirmed it altogether by insinuating that Beerus split the timelines.

Of course, it still doesn't make a lick of sense that Beerus can just alter the time loop at his whim if his very own progression of decisions serves as the foundation of that loop, but what are you gonna do? Can't expect the storytelling to be perfect I suppose.

[Shinomori]

Yall know what, and I first heard this from Blackenfist's youtube channel some weeks ago, it would have made more sense for Toei to say the time split happened when Whis did his time manipulation. Why? In that instance, Zamasu did kill Gowasu. Now granted it still would have been somewhat confusing, but that would have absolutely fit into the Dragon Ball paradigm of time travel. Plus it would also mean there is a timeline where Frieza is still alive. (If someone wants to do a fanfic on that one. )

So that would have been the perfect scenario, and again it's not like we are making this up. These are scenes in the actual anime. They could have had a different timeline where Zamasu found out about Goku through Godtube, thus going on to create Goku Black. They could have had the time split with Whis' time manipulation, where Zamasu succeeded in killing Gowasu. They do neither, and we simply end up with a cluster fudge.